Barnes TSX vs Swift A-Frame on Buffalo

[JG26Irish_2]

I am looking for input from a broad spectrum of this forum since it contains experienced PH's and Hunters alike. I am booked to hunt Cape Buffalo next year in 2025 and have been testing loads and plan to settle on that this fall in time to allow more practice and tuning with my chosen loads. I am not reloading for a variety of reasons and will work with factory loads. I will be using a 375HH CRF rifle. I thought I had settled on 300g Swift A-Frame with a pair of Woodleigh Hydro cup point solids in the bottom of the mag in event of a charge. But recent results by my PH and another client has given me cause for at least reconsideration. For reference, all three loads shoot to the same POI and all are very accurate in my rifle. When I take the trouble to shoot them at 100y off of the bench, they all shoot under 1" groups and more often than not those groups are closer to 1/2". We will not shoot at buff further than 100y away. In fact the ideal range should be 70-80y for the first shot. That is close enough for max impact while being far enough to allow time for at least two more shots by me should the animal want to charge and would also allow enough time for the PH to get in a pair of shots if needed. My rifle holds 4 rounds but if loaded carefully, you can get one in the chamber with four in the mag for a total of five.

Please read on and then offer your experiences.

I believe in always trying to learn more all the time when it comes to shooting, hunting, bullet performance, etc. My own experience is most important but it is more efficient to learn what we can from others. Until recently, I had never hunted with Barnes or Swift bullets. In North America, for most game those heavy bullets were just not needed. So, my experience was very limited. Most of my larger game were taken with 308 using 165g Nosler BT's or with 270 using 130g BT's. They worked so well, that I never needed much more.

In Africa on a recent PG safari, I took five animals with a 308 loaded with Fusion 180g bonded bullets and they were like hunting with Thor's Hammer. One shot and DRT in every case. I was uber impressed with them. I took one larger beast with a 375HH loaded with 300g TSX bullets and it did fine but also required three shots to finish it. Yeah the first shot killed it but it ran a short distance and then wallowed around until I could finish the job. Effective but less of a hammer than the smaller, faster 308.

My PH in Africa posted the pic below this morning from a client hunt on his reserve in SA. It was a particular Cape Buffalo bull that had a "Bad Attitude". I knew this bull having encountered him with a small herd of others while hunting plains game this summer at the same place. He called him a "Cheeky Bastid", lol. I was scheduled to hunt Cape Buffalo next year with him. This bull trotted forward to guard his herd from us when we got a bit too close. When he showed me this bull, I asked him about hunting for it next year? He said that unfortunately it had a date with another client later this year. A few days ago, the client dropped that bull with a 375HH. Since, I planned to likely use the same caliber on my hunt, I was asking him this morning which bullet was used and how well did it perform? I was pleased to learn that the client used a 375 and two of my Barnes 375HH loads that I had left with him this summer when I went home. I told him then, that he could use as much of them as he wanted, as long as he saved me a few for my buff hunt. I was very pleased to hear him report that the Barnes TSX was likely the most effective bullet on Buffalo that he had ever witnessed. He was even thinking about using them in his backup rifle in the future.

I have never had much experience hunting with these copper only bullets and was having trouble getting comfortable with them. My rifle shoots them great but I had the opinion that they are slow to expand and as such were slow to dump energy into the target. Perhaps that is by design? If you have hunted with these, please comment and share your results. Especially on Buffalo, but other results would apply as well.

 

[375Fox]

Both bullets will do equally well. I personally would pick the swift A frame because it reliably doesn’t exit but can’t say it’s better than the TSX in 375 H&H. I think you are looking at it wrong though. Barnes TSX and Swift A Frame aren’t rapidly expanding bullets that dump energy immediately. I’m not surprised you saw better results on medium game with your Fusions. They open faster and more easily and make a bigger immediate wound channel on the right shot. Swift A Frame and TSX are made for deep penetration and reliable performance every time and every shot. You are trading a big immediate wound channel for predictable bullet performance and deep penetration on large game, particularly shots on heavy bone where lesser bullets might break up and not penetrate.
I’ve taken buffalo with Swift A Frame, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, and non-bonded federal soft points. I’ve hunted other game in Africa with Barnes X, TSX, TTSX, Accubond, Woodleigh PP, Hornady, and local ammo. I like predictable bullets even if it’s a trade off on certain species. I’ve tracked duiker further than any other game animal in Africa post shot because tough 375 bullets don’t open well on them.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Barnes TSX

Do you have 300 grain A frames in hand ?

 

[375Fox]

Barnes TSX

Do you have 300 grain A frames in hand ?

Loaded 375 H&H Swift A Frame is available from federal now and still available at Pendleton ammunition. Barnes has definitely had a much more consistent supply though.

 

[BryceM]

I've used A-frames only a handful of times. Out of a .375 on giraffe, it did the job, but mushroomed pretty well and didn't come close to exiting.

On buffalo, I used a 400gr TSX and it performed perfectly. The presentation was quartering toward me and the bullet took out the front shoulder on the way in. It penetrated the chest perfectly and was found on the far side along the flank. He went 100, maybe 200 yards. It shed 3 of 4 petals, but that's almost certainly due to hitting the shoulder bone square-on.

For dangerous game where penetration is crucial, I'd favor the TSX, but only if it shoots well in your rifle. It may not penetrate as reliably as a solid in the skull, but I'm guessing it would work in a pinch the vast majority of the time if called to do so.

 

[roklok]

I killed my (first) buffalo two weeks ago using a 300 grain Swift A-Frame. It performed very well, breaking rib on entry, tearing top of heart apart, breaking far rib before shattering humerus, lodging close to hide in far shoulder. Speaking with two PHs involved in my hunt, the A-Frame is their gold standard. That being said, the bullet was flattened a bit more than I expected, with a retained weight of 254 grains. The bull only went about 25-30 yards before dropping and expiring. The Barnes TSX is also highly regarded, but from what I understand leans a bit more to the penetration side and possibly a bit less "energy dump". I also observed a recovered .375 TSX at the skinning shed that only partially opened. Two petals did not peel back, but "kinked". I have used the 270 grain .375 TSX in Alaska to great effect on Kodiak bear, but decided to go A Frame for Buffalo. I really don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I killed my (first) buffalo two weeks ago using a 300 grain Swift A-Frame. It performed very well, breaking rib on entry, tearing top of heart apart, breaking far rib before shattering humerus, lodging close to hide in far shoulder. Speaking with two PHs involved in my hunt, the A-Frame is their gold standard. That being said, the bullet was flattened a bit more than I expected, with a retained weight of 254 grains. The bull only went about 25-30 yards before dropping and expiring. The Barnes TSX is also highly regarded, but from what I understand leans a bit more to the penetration side and possibly a bit less "energy dump". I also observed a recovered .375 TSX at the skinning shed that only partially opened. Two petals did not peel back, but "kinked". I have used the 270 grain .375 TSX in Alaska to great effect on Kodiak bear, but decided to go A Frame for Buffalo. I really don't think you can go wrong with either.

Thanks all for the inputs. I have to agree that either will do the job on buff. Still, getting first hand inputs from actual hunters about the performance of these on live game is useful. I was well aware that these two bullets (and most DG bullets) are tough projectiles meant to penetrate deep while providing a larger would track than would a solid. I used a 375 2ith 250g Trophy Bonded BC bullet last year on a whitetail deer while getting some real world field experience with my buffalo rifle and was a bit surprised that it drilled thru the deer with no evidence of any significant expansion. Still it dropped the deer in its tracks. On my Wildebeest with the 375 TSX 300g the first bullet expanded to 0.72" at 160y and penetrated thru the front hitting the right lung crossed the top of the heart hitting some of the plumbing and nicked the left lung on the way to lodging in the paunch with total penetration estimated to be about 3.5ft. The last shot hit the chest and lodged in the opposite shoulder and expanded to 0.80" (2.1x) from very close range of about 10y. Penetration was much less but it did expend more. Is that normal for Barnes to adjust on its own the amount of expansion so that the penetration is more/enough? Pics of the recovered TSX's below.

I am looking for the bullet that provides the largest expansion while also penetrating deep enough to reach the vitals of a large bull from any angle even if it needs to break bones on the way in. Exception is a Texas Heart shot. If the bull is running away and not wounded already, I would not be taking that shot. 3-5 feet of penetration in flesh (not gel) is enough in my estimation. But, I am not the expert on this. If you think otherwise please share.

If there are others out there who want to chime in, please do. What have you killed with a 375HH? and which bullet did you use? How did it perform? How deep did it penetrate? Was the bullet recovered? How large was the expansion? How far did the animal go? I will also be hunting some of the larger mid-sized PG on the trip next year and will have the option of the 375 with TSX or a 30-06 using Swift Scirocco bonded 180g bullets. Some include: Kudu, Zebra and Black Wildebeest. Will be trying to decide which rifle to use on each. Am leaning toward the 30-06 at the moment but might depend on the terrain and distance expected. We will be hunting in both Free State and Limpopo. In Limpopo the shots are closer most of the time. I may use this 375 rig for a meat bison next year also, if I can find the time to go do that. Any informed opinions are welcome. Thx guys.

 

[Flipper Dude]

I can’t speak to the Swift A frame efficiency. I will say I’ve killed all my buffalo with Barnes TSX in both 375H&H and 404J. All one shot kills, not counting the insurance.

 

[Scott CWO]

Hello! I have used both in my 375s with great success but probably prefer the A-Frame due to the issues noted with the TTSX not opening up as much at lower velocity.

Another bullet I like in my 375s is the 270 grain Swift LRX. It’s plenty of bullet for buffalo and it does great on plains game as well. It opens a little easier than the TTSX and has a more flat trajectory if you have to reach out a bit farther for plains game. My clients have also shot big brown bears with this bullet from my 375 camp rifle with great results.

 

[PARA45]

I have never used A-Frames, but I did use Barnes Vortex TSX 300 grs ammo on a cow buffalo. One shot, she ran and expired. Complete bullet pass through and bullet was not recovered. I also used the same ammo on plains game, and one lioness. No issues at all with this ammo.

 

[cms62236]

Just returned from Limpopo and Free State. Killed Kudu, Impala, Blue Wildebeest, Blesbuck in Limpopo and Gemsbuck and Eland in Free State all with .375 Barnes 300 grain. All were complete pass through one shot kills and only the Kudu and Blesbuck moved from where they were standing(both went 50 yards max) everything else was DRT. I also shot a Springbuck with a 35 Whelen and Barnes 180. Not my best shot and it was a pass through and went about 200 yards. In hindsight I would not hesitate to use the .375 Barnes on everything. For Free State I wished I had taken my .300 Win mag with Barnes because the closest shot was 220 yards and between doping the wind and the range I think it would have proved a bit better. Buffalo is on my menu in a few years and unless things change I believe the Barnes would be a great all around choice should SHTF and you are are forced to take a less than perfect angle shot.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Just returned from Limpopo and Free State. Killed Kudu, Impala, Blue Wildebeest, Blesbuck in Limpopo and Gemsbuck and Eland in Free State all with .375 Barnes 300 grain. All were complete pass through one shot kills and only the Kudu and Blesbuck moved from where they were standing(both went 50 yards max) everything else was DRT. I also shot a Springbuck with a 35 Whelen and Barnes 180. Not my best shot and it was a pass through and went about 200 yards. In hindsight I would not hesitate to use the .375 Barnes on everything. For Free State I wished I had taken my .300 Win mag with Barnes because the closest shot was 220 yards and between doping the wind and the range I think it would have proved a bit better. Buffalo is on my menu in a few years and unless things change I believe the Barnes would be a great all around choice should SHTF and you are are forced to take a less than perfect angle shot.

That is great info. Thank You!

 

[Lopehunter]

One additional option not mentioned so far is the 350 gr. .375 TSX from Barnes. My PH recommended them for my buffalo hunt back in late August. They shoot extremely well in my rifle and have a slight edge in momentum (which often equals penetration) and a 17% increase in sectional density (also favoring increased penetration) over the 300 gr. version.

My buffalo bull dropped in his tracks at the first shot from ~50 yds. He was slightly quartering toward. At the skinning shed, we found the bullet under the skin at the far side having penetrated both lungs and the upper section of the heart. The wound channel through the heart was about 1/2 in. in diameter. Bullet expansion was complete.

I also used the same ammo to take an eland on that trip. The shot was a complete pass through and he only went about 60 yds.

I'm not aware of an A-Frame 350 gr. offering in .375 from Swift.

 

[Andrew62]

I've taken buffalo with both TSX and Swift Aframes. Either one will do a great job, nice thing about Barnes is you can get Barnes ammo. I do feel a wee bit more comfortable using Swift on a second shot as sometimes the Barnes makes it all the way through.

 

[375Fox]

One additional option not mentioned so far is the 350 gr. .375 TSX from Barnes. My PH recommended them for my buffalo hunt back in late August. They shoot extremely well in my rifle and have a slight edge in momentum (which often equals penetration) and a 17% increase in sectional density (also favoring increased penetration) over the 300 gr. version.

My buffalo bull dropped in his tracks at the first shot from ~50 yds. He was slightly quartering toward. At the skinning shed, we found the bullet under the skin at the far side having penetrated both lungs and the upper section of the heart. The wound channel through the heart was about 1/2 in. in diameter. Bullet expansion was complete.

I also used the same ammo to take an eland on that trip. The shot was a complete pass through and he only went about 60 yds.

I'm not aware of an A-Frame 350 gr. offering in .375 from Swift.

I think that would be a good bullet for the right circumstance, but over penetration on buffalo can be a bad thing. A lot of buffalo get taken from herd or group with buffalo behind your bull, so you might have to pass opportunities. I don’t doubt the 350 gr Barnes penetrates deeper, but it doesn’t expand more or put more energy on target so the only benefit is penetration. A 350 gr Lead bullet has the opportunity to expand more and shed some weight without over penetrating, so could be a benefit over the 300 gr lead bullet. I like how reliably swift (and trophy bonded bear claw) doesn’t exit but get good penetration.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

One additional option not mentioned so far is the 350 gr. .375 TSX from Barnes. My PH recommended them for my buffalo hunt back in late August. They shoot extremely well in my rifle and have a slight edge in momentum (which often equals penetration) and a 17% increase in sectional density (also favoring increased penetration) over the 300 gr. version.

My buffalo bull dropped in his tracks at the first shot from ~50 yds. He was slightly quartering toward. At the skinning shed, we found the bullet under the skin at the far side having penetrated both lungs and the upper section of the heart. The wound channel through the heart was about 1/2 in. in diameter. Bullet expansion was complete.

I also used the same ammo to take an eland on that trip. The shot was a complete pass through and he only went about 60 yds.

I'm not aware of an A-Frame 350 gr. offering in .375 from Swift.

LH - Thank you for this. I appreciate the input. For this trip, I will be limited to the 300g ammo only for several reasons. I do not want to take multiple weights of bullets on the trip since I do not want to have to adjust the scope between the two during the hunt and it is possible to mix them up once out of the boxes if they look alike. Secondly, I already have 10 boxes of the Barnes 300g TSX ammo having acquired a case of the stuff during an estate auction. My solids, A-Frames and other ammo are all 300g and would hit to a different POI than the 350g on longer shots. While I won't be shooting at Buffalo at extended ranges, my 375 is accurate enough to shoot reliably from sticks out to 200y or even 300y if needed and will be potentially deployed on some of the larger PG animals as well where the bigger slugs would simply pass thru. I have a 458wm that could be used for situations that require a very heavy slow bullet but am not planning on taking it on this trip.

Somebody mentioned the Barnes 270g LRX-BT slug. I looked up the load data on it. That thing has a pretty impressive BC for such a big bullet. I may look into those for Elk if I have get drawn for one. It looks to be another great option for PG critters but for this trip we will stick to the KISS principle and use only one wt for each caliber.

 

[sgt_zim]

I had a 1 shot kill on a buff cow a couple months back with 286 gr A Frames (9.3x62) at 2475 fps. About a 30 yard shot, she ran 20 or 30 yards, crashed, gave her death bellow, and that was that. She turned a broadside into a quartering away as I was squeezing the trigger, I hit her right in front of the rumen (look in Kevin Roberton's "Perfect shot" and that's where I hit her for the quartering away) and the bullet traversed all the way from there destroying the left lung, the heart and coming to rest in the offside shoulder.

TSX and A Frame will both do the job. Take the bullet you feel most confident with. Nothing inspires the way confidence with a load does.

 

[Nyati]

Mine was shot with a 300gr.TBBC.

Neck shot, died instantly.

AFrame is my favorite ammo with my .338WM

 

[Tango]

My PH told me to try both and go with the one that shot best from my rifle. That was clearly the Barnes. My M70 375 didn't like the A Frames at all. You're good either way.

 

[Challer]

I wouldn’t over think it. Both are excellent choices, modern bullets with very good field reports..