Barnes bullet expansion in large calibers (375 and up)

[SRvet]

It seems like if you recover a bullet from a dead animal, it worked OK?

My experience is bullets can do funny things, especially once they hit an animal. With hundreds (or more) observations with all sorts of bullets, crazy shit happens.

This is true but I am of the opinion that I see less craziness and more reliable straight line penetration and reliable expansion with the TSX and TTSX than many others I have tried.

 

[GMcQ]

No problems with my 525 gr 505 Gibbs.. Every buffalo I have shot and recovered a bullet from looks like this. Other bullet is a 525 gr solid recovered from a coudgras shot to an elephant. Small one is my 28 Nosler 170 gr Hammer HHT. Plains game rifle.. quarter chest shot of Sable at 325 yards and found bullet in hind quarter.

 

[GMcQ]

No problems with my 525 gr 505 Gibbs.. Every buffalo I have shot and recovered a bullet from looks like this. Other bullet is a 525 gr solid recovered from a coudgras shot to an elephant. Small one is my 28 Nosler 170 gr Hammer HHT. Plains game rifle.. quarter chest shot of Sable at 325 yards and found bullet in hind quarter. View attachment 719079

Sorry, Barnes 525 gr in solid and TSX.. Same performance with my 500 NE and 570 gr TSX. Love Barnes bullets..

 

[buffybr]

I've only used my .375 RUM on two African hunts. The first hunt was in Zimbabwe and South Africa, and I used 300 gr Barnes TSX bullets handloaded at 2830 fps. A 50 yd broadside shot went through one shoulder, the chest cavity, and stopped in the off shoulder. It was a perfect mushroom:

The bullets completely passed through the smaller animals like a Chobe Bushbuck and Common Reedbuck so they weren't recovered, but they very effectively killed the animals.

On my second African hunt with my .375 RUM was on various properties and concessions in the East Cape of South Africa. For this hunt I handloades Barnes 270 gr TSX bullets at 3040 fps. I shot 13 animals on that trip, and again the bullets completyly passed through the small animals like Steenboks, Cape Bushbuck, a Jackal, and a Vaal Rhebok, and larger animals like an Nyala and a Cape Eland were almost instant one shot kills, but we didn't recover the bullets. However one Kudu did take 2 bullets, and they were recovered.

After what I thought was great performance with those Barnes bullets from my .375 RUM, when I built my .300 Weatherby, I've only hunted with Barnes bullets with it: 168 gr TSX and TTSX and now 180 gr TTSX. Again, many pass throughs, but I did recover these few:

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Since this thread started in 2020, and now is 2025, it appears there is a vast improvement in consistency... Which I hope because I plan on using Barnes 270gr out of my 375 H&H for bear this spring

 

[M70375!]

Since this thread started in 2020, and now is 2025, it appears there is a vast improvement in consistency... Which I hope because I plan on using Barnes 270gr out of my 375 H&H for bear this spring

That will be perfect, Alaskan brown bear ? I would also load a few 300 gr TSX and if you know your first shot is going to be under a 100 yds, I would slip in a 300 gr in the pipe for that first shot. I am going for brown bear in May with a 338 Edge +P and plan to use 250 gr TSX, but might load a few 285 gr TSX and slip one of those in for the first shot if I get the chance for a close shot

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I cannot be sure about Barnes expansion at lower velocity but I have used them quite a bit in recent years with relatively good results. They are not as explosive as a SST Hornady but what they do is expand some and penetrate a lot. The expansion is reduced at longer ranges and slower impact velocity to enable deep enough penetration at most reasonable distances. When I use Barnes TTSX or TSX, I intentionally limit my shots to the range where the bullet impact velocity remains above 2000 fps. For my 375HH, that is about 250y. The pic below is two 300g TSX bullets recovered from a Blue Wildebeest in Limpopo a couple years ago. The first shot was about 160-180y frontal and penetrated about 3ft. It expanded to about 1.9x and was a fatal wound. The bull spun, stumbled and ran 60y where he dropped. The 2nd bullet impacted at about 10y. A finisher to the chest and it expanded to 2.2x but only penetrated about 24".

This year I used Barnes on two PG animals in Free State. A Black WB at 314y that dropped him in his tracks. The bullet passed thru the brisket and out the right flank breaking his right rear leg on the way out. The 2nd animal was a Springbok at 243y and it was also dropped in its tracks but required a 9mm finisher at close range. Both of these were with a 7mm/08 with 140g TTSX ammo. I also took a Cape Buffalo with 300g TSX ammo with MV of 2580fps. All four shots did not pass thru the buff but the skinners failed to collect any of the slugs so, I have nothing to show there. Buff are tough, I know that.

I am not a Barnes fanboy but there factory ammo is as good as it gets and I often see single digit standard deviation in muzzle velocity from Barnes ammo. I cannot reload that consistently. I would not use this ammo for 600y long shots on Elk or Mulies. But, I would not attempt such a shot anyway.

 

[GMcQ]

hey guys,

i have seen barnes bullets expand fairly poorly at lower velocities (in elk, cape buffalo and moose). the elk and moose were shot at a pretty good distance, but the cape buffalo was around 100 yards with a 375 h&h. the bullet opened, but not much. the bullets on each game animal were of course recovered and the resulting expansion was underwhelming.

so my concern/question is: are barnes bullets made softer or expand easier in the larger calibers? i am reluctant to use them in my 450-400, or 458 win mag, or even 9.3x74r over 150 yards due to the apparent lack of expansion (due to lower velocity impacts).

my thoughts are, with a starting velocity of 2150 fps (500 gr) and 100 yard velocity of 1900 fps, will a barnes bullet open properly at 150-200 yards? 200 yard velocity approx 1700 fps. if not then i need to look hard at other bullets.

now i know that the barnes bullets have a huge following and i have used them for years, but the impact velocities of a 7mm mag or 3006 are quite different than a 458 or 450-400. so, please, don't flame me, enlighten me. i searched around and could not find any info about lower velocity impacts in larger calibers as most users are shooting the x bullets at or above 2600 fps start velocities.

i have seen large caliber ammunition (458 +) sold with barnes bullets, but wondered if they actually open up beyond 50 yards. if not, that seems a real bad idea to use them in the nitro express velocity range (2150 fps).
i appreciate any experience or input on this subject, thanks.

I hunt Africa nearly every year for dangerous game, specifically buffalo and use Barnes 525 gr TSX bullets in my 505 Gibbs exclusively. I have also used them in 375’s, 30-06 and a 28N there for plains game. NEVER not had one open up or perform any way but flawless.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

That will be perfect, Alaskan brown bear ? I would also load a few 300 gr TSX and if you know your first shot is going to be under a 100 yds, I would slip in a 300 gr in the pipe for that first shot. I am going for brown bear in May with a 338 Edge +P and plan to use 250 gr TSX, but might load a few 285 gr TSX and slip one of those in for the first shot if I get the chance for a close shot

Yep, Alaska Brown Bear. Well, and Black Bear too. Both will be in season and be around depending where I end up going.

I snapped my Achilles and had surgery, so depends on how well I rehab it, will dictate where I end up going. I'm probably going to avoid the mountain hunts and stick with the "lowland" brush hunts (less likely to succeed). Or if I tag asking with my buddy with his bait station.

Regardless, likely going to be under 100yd shots this year. I have a box of Double Tap loaded with Barnes 270 that I need to test out still, that's one of the easier loads to find locally. I haven't been able to find any 300 Barnes, and ordering ammo online to Alaska is basically impossible

 

[Wildwillalaska]

Yep, Alaska Brown Bear. Well, and Black Bear too. Both will be in season and be around depending where I end up going.

I snapped my Achilles and had surgery, so depends on how well I rehab it, will dictate where I end up going. I'm probably going to avoid the mountain hunts and stick with the "lowland" brush hunts (less likely to succeed). Or if I tag asking with my buddy with his bait station.

Regardless, likely going to be under 100yd shots this year. I have a box of Double Tap loaded with Barnes 270 that I need to test out still, that's one of the easier loads to find locally. I haven't been able to find any 300 Barnes, and ordering ammo online to Alaska is basically impossible

JC, what part of Alaska? You should be able to get factory Barnes ammo with 300gr TSX from Three Bears. If they don’t have it in stock, ask them to order some, they get a lot of their ammo from Sport South who at least typically has maintained good stock of Barnes ammo. While I reload for most rifles, my Rigby 416 and a Dakota 375HH both shoot the factory Barnes with accuracy I could not improve upon reloading, and the ammo is reasonable enough that I just bought a bunch. Always shoot over chrono and the Barnes loaded ammo has shown extremely good consistency in comparison to Federal, Nosler and Hornady factory ammo.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

JC, what part of Alaska? You should be able to get factory Barnes ammo with 300gr TSX from Three Bears. If they don’t have it in stock, ask them to order some, they get a lot of their ammo from Sport South who at least typically has maintained good stock of Barnes ammo. While I reload for most rifles, my Rigby 416 and a Dakota 375HH both shoot the factory Barnes with accuracy I could not improve upon reloading, and the ammo is reasonable enough that I just bought a bunch. Always shoot over chrono and the Barnes loaded ammo has shown extremely good consistency in comparison to Federal, Nosler and Hornady factory ammo.

I'm in Eagle River, so I stop by the Chugiak 3 Bears often. I actually got my Barnes loaded Double Tap at the Wasilla one, it was the cheapest copper that I've found for testing.

I'll have to keep looking, I haven't done my "ammo rounds" for a bit. I frequent the other Big Box stores in Anchorage often, so I might need to call around

 

[dgr416]

I like Swift bullets alot better than barnes x bullets .I had a good friend almost get mauled by a 10 foot 6 griz from barnes 400 gr 416 bullets at 2300 fps out of a 416 taylor .The bear had already been shot 3 times with a 358 norma with barnes x bullets then 4 times with the 400 gr barnes bullets .The petals blew right off going into the bear .The bear fell at their feet in the 200 yard charge .My friend who was the assitant guide changed to 410 gr woodleigh bullets for the 416 taylor that expand to .92.Bears are tough critters when charging they might be dead but still bite and run two mins .

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I'm in Eagle River, so I stop by the Chugiak 3 Bears often. I actually got my Barnes loaded Double Tap at the Wasilla one, it was the cheapest copper that I've found for testing.

Like Wild Will, I too have found the factory Barnes loads in many calibers simply to be some of the most consistent factory ammo I have ever tried. I do not normally reload for my hunting rifles since the volume of shooting I do with them is rather limited. I bought 10 boxes of Barnes TSX 375HH ammo a few years ago and it chronos super consistent. I often see std deviation in the single digits from the Barnes factory fodder. That is better than I can get from reloads. I have used it on game with both the 375 and my 7mm/08 and it has always worked great. I have some Dbl Tap factory ammo in 375 also and while it is good stuff and marginally faster than the factory Barnes ammo, the velocity deviation is significantly greater than that of the Barnes loads. Not bad, but not as good. For me, the extra accuracy of the Barnes ammo is a plus for hunting. An extra 30-40fps, while nice is not worth it if I miss the shot. Several of my hunting rifles have recorded their best groups with Barnes ammo.

• 7mm/08
• 7mm Mag
• 30-06
• 338wm
• 375HH

I was never a fan of copper monolithic bullets or Barnes until I started hunting in Africa and hunting DG. My PH in Africa believes that the Barnes TSX is possibly the most effective hunting ammo made for use on Cape Buffalo. That is impressive testimony.

 

[1dirthawker]

• 7mm/08
• 7mm Mag
• 30-06
• 338wm
• 375HH

@JG26Irish_2,​

these rifles all develop way more than nitro velocities which was my primary concern, lower velocity seemed to not open the barnes up well. i ended up on using north fork softs for my 375 ruger and 450-400 o/u.

i have used 400 gr TTBC and 400 gr hammer bullets in my 458 win on brown bears as a backup load. both have been devastating on bears so far.

velocity is a friend to the barnes bullets and it seems in 375 that the 270 gr bullet opens more consistently than the 300 gr bullet. at least that is my observation.

 

[Arac]

This is an interesting thread. Around 2005 I tested some 270gr TSX into wet newspapers at 100 yards and they hardly opened up at all. I then shot one into a round of pine at closer range, and it opened up beautifully. I know neither of these tests accurately represents performance on game, but it made me wonder how much they would expand on game at +100 yards.

I still have a few bullets from those days left and I just ordered a bunch more. I’ll try to do a side by side comparison to see if there is any difference between a new 270gr TSX and one that is 20 years old.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

• 7mm/08
• 7mm Mag
• 30-06
• 338wm
• 375HH

@JG26Irish_2,​

these rifles all develop way more than nitro velocities which was my primary concern, lower velocity seemed to not open the barnes up well. i ended up on using north fork softs for my 375 ruger and 450-400 o/u.

i have used 400 gr TTBC and 400 gr hammer bullets in my 458 win on brown bears as a backup load. both have been devastating on bears so far.

velocity is a friend to the barnes bullets and it seems in 375 that the 270 gr bullet opens more consistently than the 300 gr bullet. at least that is my observation.

I have seen 458wm 500g TSX that opened as designed. Those are in similar velocity range as a 470NE or similar. I think the expanded diameter was about 3/4". Not as impressive as some but certainly effective. I have no knowledge of if Barnes uses a different alloy for its larger bore bullets or not. Most of my personal rifles that I used Barnes in, I try to limit my impacts to 2000fps and higher to insure proper expansion. That would be tough with a 458, lol.

I have shot 458's out to 400y and they hit really hard even at that extreme range. That does not mean one should use them on game at that distance. This could be where a Swift A-Frame might?? hold a marginal advantage? They are tough and still expand some at slower velocity but if you look at Bill's test slugs, once they slow down to 1800fps, they do not open up that much either.

 

[Datchew]

While planning my Africa trip I talked with my ph about bullets for the 375.
He spoke very highly of the TSX.

I had a surprisingly easy time developing a load that shoots under 1" at 200 yards. That's not a typo. I was very surprised.

They performed well on a buffalo, zebra, and wildebeest.
I'm a fan.

 

[ftrovato]

I have taken well over 100 animals with Barnes bullets, 210 grain 375,270 grain 375, 500 grain .458 in 450 Ackley and 570 grain .510 in 500 A2. I have recovered many bullets and they all have looked picture book as if fired into gelatin.

Have you recovered any of the .510 diameter? I'd like to see them and hear the hunting report if you will.

 

[458JCE]

The PH that I hunted with in AUG asked me not to bring mono bullets due to experience with pass-through and wounding of other animals, so my son and I took Woodleigh PPSN (30-06 and 338WM). While in Jo'burg I had the good fortune to meet Rudi Fischer of Spoor Bullet Company (SBC) and bought from him 250gr 9.3, 225gr 338, 165gr 308 bullets. These are a hybrid of Swift A-Frame and Barnes bullets. They are CNC turned mono bullets with the nose drilled out and filled with core-bonded lead - making the bullets slightly nose-heavy and super accurate. I've since shot wild bulls, big pigs and Sambar deer with them and they have all retained >90% weight, with the exception of a 165gr at 3300fps out of my 300WBY on a big running boar at about 50 yards that travelled from his back and through his heart and only retained 85% weight. I don't know if SBC can export to USA yet but if you can get them, I reckon they're the best DG bullet available.

 

[1dirthawker]

The PH that I hunted with in AUG asked me not to bring mono bullets due to experience with pass-through and wounding of other animals, so my son and I took Woodleigh PPSN (30-06 and 338WM). While in Jo'burg I had the good fortune to meet Rudi Fischer of Spoor Bullet Company (SBC) and bought from him 250gr 9.3, 225gr 338, 165gr 308 bullets. These are a hybrid of Swift A-Frame and Barnes bullets. They are CNC turned mono bullets with the nose drilled out and filled with core-bonded lead - making the bullets slightly nose-heavy and super accurate. I've since shot wild bulls, big pigs and Sambar deer with them and they have all retained >90% weight, with the exception of a 165gr at 3300fps out of my 300WBY on a big running boar at about 50 yards that travelled from his back and through his heart and only retained 85% weight. I don't know if SBC can export to USA yet but if you can get them, I reckon they're the best DG bullet available.

those spoor bullets are built very much like the north fork bullets. another great hunting bullet.