505 Gibbs

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by CTDolan, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    The only reason I dont have a .505 already is our ridculous police...who in their wisdom has decided that you/I should not own hunting rifles in .50 caliber or larger....they somehow cant fathom that we are not talking .50 BMG..

    This is of course BS, but I am not sure I wanna fight with our national police directorate over it.......:A Type:
     

  2. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    "The .505 Gibbs is experiencing a huge upswing in popularity lately." - words I never would have imagined reading, back in the late 1970's, when I first got into this game.
     
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  3. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    I think the fact that Norma started loading it secured its come back...

    Norma is one of the high quality ammo makers , their brass is probably the best in the world..

    Not sure I would shoot it with 600 grainers (that Norma loads)....I think I would stick to the original Kynoch load, ie plenty horsepower and not that severe recoil.
     

  4. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Hi again Pondoro,

    All governments today are totally evil, no matter what political party they are a member of and no matter what country's throat they have their tyrannical jack boot on.
    Here in The USA, these high paid criminals are trying to claim that "solids" in .50 should be possessed only by the Military and are not really suitable for civilian use.

    I guess the small consolation prize of this pathetic situation is that cartridges like the .458 Lott and .416 Rigby will generally out-penetrate the .505 Gibbs and .500 Jeffery.
    That and the fact that one of my friends owns a lathe, (snicker, snicker).
    Brass / bronze, etc., are easy on the cutting tool so, you can make many bullets without much wear and tear on the equipment.

    Although the Lott and the Rigby cartridges mentioned are not as "exotic" as the huge Gibbs or Jeffery cartridges mentioned, at least they are capable of fantastic penetration on truly heavy game.
    And with softs, the Lott and / or the Rigby would probably crumple a charging bear or lion as if you dropped an automobile on him.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     

  5. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    the 600gr loads actually have less horse power then the 525gr loads if were talking about muzzle energy. however the 600gr load is by far superior in performance to the 525gr load in most cases. the felt recoil on the 600gr loads is milder in my opinion then the 525gr loads due to the lower velocity.

    the onley time i would use the lighter 525gr bullet on heavy game is if i was using a mono-metal bullet like Barnes bullets. otherwise the lighter bullet will suffer a major loss in penetration.

    having said all that, i dont like the Norma 505 Gibbs ammunition because the nickel plated cases tend to cause magazine issues with most rifles. otherwise the load is excellent! i have told Norma this and so have others but Norma is stubborn and doesnt want to change their brass.

    -matt
     
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  6. ActionBob

    ActionBob AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I'm really not the recoil addict Matt is. But I have shot both and I can confirm the 600 grain Norma at 2100 fps feels softer in the recoil department than a 525 grain at 2300 fps... And they shoot about 8" high in my CZ compared to the faster 525 grainers. And yes Norma brass is very pretty to look at, even prettier in the those down right gorgeous boxes! But I don't wish to date this ammo, just shoot it.. And in that department it sucks! at least in the big bores and especially in my personal CZ 505 Gibbs!:W A Rifle:
    Which it is apparent that when it goes out on a date with those sexy Norma loads :K Flirting: :K Flowers: it tends to get stupid drunk :D Passed Out: and pukes them right out the top of the action two at a time:E Sick: Load up three :P Gorgeous::K Kissy::K Kiss:(yea I know, pretty kinky :K Playboy:and tuck them all into the magazine all beddy by like:P Baby:.... Carefully slide the bolt shut.:E Frightened::P Elmer Fudd: Then when you pull it back, it belches two out into the dirt:E Yuck: and then it will slide the third one into chamber all cozy by itself:A Big Thanx: I guess when it comes right down to it, they like monogamy?:K Over 18:

    But that is not a warm cozy feeling for the Dangerous Game hunter :S Rip:
     

  7. larry4831

    larry4831 AH Enthusiast

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    Shot the 505 1 time and fell in love with it
     

  8. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    Well now....Norma is not the only ammo maker that nickle plate cases.

    What calibres/rifles have you had trouble with such in..?

    I have used a lot of federal ammo in both .375H&H and .458WinMag in ZKK 602 and never had feeding trouble...not because the cases are sexy, but because they tend to load the best bullets in them....:ROFLMAO:
     

  9. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    But that said....I fully agree that this nickle plating they do, to make it all appear "Premium", is nothing but bollocks..
     
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  10. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    most rifles in 505 Gibbs will not work reliably with nickle plated cases. the magazine wont hold on to them properly.

    -matt
     
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  11. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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  12. Wouter Roets

    Wouter Roets AH Member

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    Hi Gents

    As a fellow 505 Gibbs user I would like to elaborate on the cartridge design. Too be honest the case is way too big for the velocities at the intended maximum pressure. Reaching 2300ft/sec with a 525gr bullet at 39 000psi with today's powders leaves you in most cases with low filling capacity. This leads to hang fires in some cases and can affect accuracy. Secondly I have dissected Norma and Bertram cases and feel very confident that these cases will easily handle at least 47 000psi that is the 416 Rigby maximum pressure. They are more heavily constructed in the base and web area than the 416 Rigby Norma and Hornady cases I have dissected.

    This will result in a 525gr leaving the muzzle of a 24 inch barrel at roughly 26000ft/sec with appropriate powders. The 600gr will reach 2400ft/sec duplicating the 400gr 416 Rigby load. Penetration will increase dramatically. Recoil will become a serious consideration though with most shooters.

    Now currently I am using Barnes TSX and Banded Solids in 525gr at 2300ft/sec and 2350ft/sec respectively. I did trim my case lengths down by 2mm due to the fact that my magazine on my Ruger RSM could only accommodate 96mm OAL. The shape of the case actually resembles the 416 Rigby case to a tee. I have always thought that the 505 Gibbs case had a unnecessary long neck at 130% of bullet diameter. With crimping of the bullet there is really no need for such a long neck. The 500 Jeffrey design confirms this statement.

    The 505 Gibbs design and quite a few other cartridge's were influenced by the use of cordite and this is no longer a consideration today. That said the 505 Gibbs was well ahead of its time in the design department. A 39 degree shoulder relative little body taper makes it a great design. Much like the 416 Rigby.

    Now in the loading department there is a couple of things to consider. First off is the primer and only a few that can handle 125gr od charges. In my experience one of the best is the Fed215. They were specifically designed for the 460 Weatherby's large powder volumes and the magnesium added to the combustion ingredients allows the flame to penetrate deep enough into the powder column for unformed ignition. I have also found that the burning rate of powders at low pressures tends to decease. I must admit to working only with Somchem powders available to us here in South Africa so can not make this an universal rule to all powders concerned.

    I would expect that the 505 Gibbs will work best in powders burning in the Reloader 22 and 25 burning rate category. Case filling should preferably be kept in the 100-105% range and only slow burning powders will achieve this. These considerations will hopefully result in no hang fires. I have not experienced any in my 416 Rigby or 505 Gibbs when sticking to these recommendations.

    I strongly recommend using Imperial Die Wax when resizing. This I apply on the inside of the case mouth as well. Stuck cases is a big reality with these big cases. I have crimped with both my roll crimp on my normal seating die as well as with Lee's Factory crimp. Roll crimping gives me longer case life witch is a real consideration with price and availability of cases. I also recommend the Norma cases above the Bertram. They were a big disappointment. Norma's nickel plated cases is a big no-no in my book for the reloader due to the fact that they crack after only a few uses. Annealing of cases is also a strong recommendation.

    Hope these rambling are of some use to you guys.

    Regards
    Wouter
     
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  13. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    ill second the need for Federal 215 primers, i would never use any other primer for these large magnum cartridges. ive been using them for years and not only do they burn extremely hot but they are also very soft and will easily ignite in guns that dont have the hardest hitting firing pins ( such as Winchester rifles).

    when hand loading i would never recommend a charge of less then 130gr and even then you still should use some kind of fill. this cases are massive and will have issues with charges that dont fill them.

    Jamison brass is another good option when you can find it. its much more affordable then Bertram or Norma and has worked very well for me.

    -matt
     
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  14. larry4831

    larry4831 AH Enthusiast

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    I read Matt that CCI # 250 large rifle Magnum are just as hot and maybe even hotter. I use them in a 378 Weatherby years ago and never had a problem. Always reliable ignition
     

  15. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    i dunno a whole lot about the CCI 250 primer as ive never seen them on the shelf. i use the Fed 215 because i know it will ignite any cartridge in any rifle with 100% success rate at this time. if it ever fails me then i will consider the CCI 250 but seeing as most people use the Fed 215 for their large bore guns and ive yet to hear of a failure i dont see this happening.

    -matt
     

  16. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I shot a .505 Gibbs once. For a couple of days afterwards I looked a bit like the guy on the right....but it subsided.

    image.jpg
     

  17. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Beautiful rifle though Matt, glad you found Wayne.
     

  18. larry4831

    larry4831 AH Enthusiast

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    That is some funny s*** lmao
     

  19. ActionBob

    ActionBob AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Ok many of the big bore addicts don't have their pictures posted on here... so Phil just who are those guys? My best guess is Matt with his new 505 and Royal with his Lott;)
     

  20. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I think they're friends of @spike.t and @Jaco Strauss.
     
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