450 TSX in .458 WM

[ldmay375]

Yea that’s interesting. I have 350, 450 and 500 grain .458 TSX but I’ve never seen a 400 grain. Seems odd.

A 400 grain TSX has been made fairly recently. BUT, it is under an agreement/contract with Buffalo Bore Ammunition. It is loaded in their 458 Winchester. I think at one time they were planning on loading it in the 458 Lott also.

I believe there is a similar agreement/contract regarding the 350 grain TSX FN that Buffalo Bore loads for its 45-70 ammo.

So neither are available across the counter.

 

[Green Chile]

That’s good to know. I know the owner of BBA.

 

[cperso]

I'll be using 450g Atomic29 projectiles at around 2400fps in my 450 Rigby when chasing Cape Buff next July with Tsala Safaris.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

450Gr Barnes TSX fired out of a .458 Winchester Magnum is serious business for Cape buffalo or hippopotamus.

 

[meigsbucks]

What powder are you using?

I only tested 3 rounds of 300 grain JHP loads out of my 458WM charged with RL7. I only did 3 because the COAL at 2.93", per Hornady Reloading Manual, is too short to function properly in my Interarms Mark X. The bullets would not chamber from the magazine.

I also tested Barnes Banded 500gr Solids and Woodleigh 500gr PPSN using IMR 4227 and H335 respectively, both loads produced an average of 2000+ fps MV.

I'll be using the Barnes and Woodleigh loads for buffalo next year. I'm looking for a PG recipe for PG ie warthog, bushpig.

Has member used cast 405gr bullets in their 458WM?

In the Lott: IMR3031 (Note: To get the banded solids to have the same point p.o.i., I had to reduce the charge by three grains.)

 

[Ridge Runner]

In the Lott: IMR3031 (Note: To get the banded solids to have the same point p.o.i., I had to reduce the charge by three grains.)

Thanks for the information.

I probably should have picked up some IMR3031 yesterday. But since I was using RL7 and still testing powders and loads for the 22 Hornet, I just picked up a jug of each RL7 and lilgun some 50gr and 45gr 22 Hornet bullets, 100 CT pack of Cheddite primers, and a Garmin chronograph from MidSouth.

Any more powders and my reloading area will need expanding. It already looks like a powder factory and ammunition plant. Though I do need to build another bench to set up 2 more presses

 

[DrBob]

I think Barnes missed the mark by not offering a .458" 400gr TSX. It would be a more ideal weight for the 458 WM and would be a solid choice for the 458 Lott.

As it stands I personally would not use the Barnes TSX for the 458 WM.

Your point is well taken..... note that those that use the TSX extended the overall length of the cartridge or are using a Lott. When I brought the 458 out to 3.6", both the 500 Banded and TSX achieved 2100-2200 fps. Even the 450 is really too long for the standard, and volume limited, 458 Win Mag. A 400 grain gives up too much sectional density for me. Coming full circle, as A-Square did in their bullet selection, they went with the tried and true formula... 450 Nitro Express 480 grain bullet. The British proof barrels were longer and so there was more velocity than in rifles... so a genuine 2150 fps is easy these days.

 

[DrBob]

What powder are you using?

I only tested 3 rounds of 300 grain JHP loads out of my 458WM charged with RL7. I only did 3 because the COAL at 2.93", per Hornady Reloading Manual, is too short to function properly in my Interarms Mark X. The bullets would not chamber from the magazine.

I also tested Barnes Banded 500gr Solids and Woodleigh 500gr PPSN using IMR 4227 and H335 respectively, both loads produced an average of 2000+ fps MV.

I'll be using the Barnes and Woodleigh loads for buffalo next year. I'm looking for a PG recipe for PG ie warthog, bushpig.

Has member used cast 405gr bullets in their 458WM?

I used Benchmark since it is one of the extreme powders from Hodgdon. Good burn rate and temp insensitive. As others here have also pointed out.... lengthen the cartridge if you can. My Ruger No. 1 and Win 70 could gobble up a 3.6 AOL cartridge without problems.

 

[matt85]

Your point is well taken..... note that those that use the TSX extended the overall length of the cartridge or are using a Lott. When I brought the 458 out to 3.6", both the 500 Banded and TSX achieved 2100-2200 fps. Even the 450 is really too long for the standard, and volume limited, 458 Win Mag. A 400 grain gives up too much sectional density for me. Coming full circle, as A-Square did in their bullet selection, they went with the tried and true formula... 450 Nitro Express 480 grain bullet. The British proof barrels were longer and so there was more velocity than in rifles... so a genuine 2150 fps is easy these days.

I use a 300gr TSX in my 416 RM and itthe works great! I think a 400gr TSX (if it existed) could work well in a 458 WM.

I agree with you on the tried and true loading. If I were to use a 458 WM, my choice bullet combo at this time would be the 480gr DGS and DGX at 2000+ fps. If they were more available, I might replace the DGX with a 450gr Swift A-frame. But I believe the new bonded DGX is fine.

 

[Nhoro]

I think the 458 win mag is capable but you don't have much wiggle room. Lead core bullets give you space for powder. Copper bullets take up that space. For factory ammo, I would use Hornady DGS and DGX. And handloading I would use aframes and DGS. 480 or 450 gr. Not any lighter.Mono metal bullets just push too many boundaries and the win mag doesn't give you that freedom. I have used 480 gr and 450 gr monos in win mag but loaded long, I have a cz 550.

 

[DrBob]

I think the 458 win mag is capable but you don't have much wiggle room. Lead core bullets give you space for powder. Copper bullets take up that space. For factory ammo, I would use Hornady DGS and DGX. And handloading I would use aframes and DGS. 480 or 450 gr. Not any lighter.Mono metal bullets just push too many boundaries and the win mag doesn't give you that freedom. I have used 480 gr and 450 gr monos in win mag but loaded long, I have a cz 550.

The common thread of going long on the 458. The 1950's short magnum craze.... Winchester had the action to make a 450 the correct way... so while "adequate", I would score Winchester as failing in the long run.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

I load the 404 Stone Hammer Bullet at 3.680" with 80 gr of AA2230 powder for 2525 fps (in my rifle) and it just flattens cape buffalo with complete pass through and feeds very nicely in my CZ550

 

[hamphibius]

450Gr Barnes TSX fired out of a .458 Winchester Magnum is serious business for Cape buffalo or hippopotamus.

I concur. I used Barnes factory loaded 458 Win Mag ammo with 450 gr TSX on my last hunt. The ammo shot very well in my rifle.
The photo of the first two 450 gr Barnes TSX were recovered from a Buffalo. Initial shot broadside at 25 yards. Buff ran about 20 yards and fell. Insurance shot in chest at 45 yards (belly was presented to me). First shot recovered in opposite ribs. Second shot recovered in ribs near spine. Heart and lungs were jelly.
Second photo is same caliber TSX recovered from skull of hippo. Presentation was ears just above waterline facing left, slightly turned toward me about 15 degrees. Two petals did not open all of the way but nearly 100% retention. The hippo was done.
I also recovered a 450 gr TSX from the same lot of ammo from a kudu taken at 30 yards. Obliterated heart and lungs. Projectile recovered on opposite shoulder. The projectile looked just like the ones from my buff.
The projectile is quality. The factory ammo also served me very well.

 

[hoytcanon]

Access to a 400 grain TSX would be awesome since I shoot the 400 Original SSP on NA game... and carry that bullet in the pipe of my .458 Carbine when guiding bear hunters. I am not buying loaded ammo to get the 400 TSX though... perhaps when the contract is up with Buffalo Bore, Barnes will offer the 400 grain TSX FB to .458 reloaders. I have to feel like that bullet would fly of the shelves... it represents an almost perfect compromise bullet for buffalo and PG.

I did test the 450 TSX on moose and bears over the past couple seasons and it worked out just fine, as you might have suspected.

This year's hunt does not include buffalo, so the .458 WM stays home, but it will stretch it's legs in 2027, and we will see how it also does on Eland.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

Access to a 400 grain TSX would be awesome since I shoot the 400 Original SSP on NA game... and carry that bullet in the pipe of my .458 Carbine when guiding bear hunters. I am not buying loaded ammo to get the 400 TSX though... perhaps when the contract is up with Buffalo Bore, Barnes will offer the 400 grain TSX FB to .458 reloaders. I have to feel like that bullet would fly of the shelves... it represents an almost perfect compromise bullet for buffalo and PG.

you will not see Barnes selling that bullet for a very long time as Buffalo Bore will keep the contract. another great option that I gave used is the 404 grain Stone Hammer Bullet from Hammer Bullets. I have used it on buffalo and have had great performance. another 2 bullets I have used that I really like is the CEB 420grain Raptor and the 400grain .700 solid. Go to their site and the bullet pictured is a recovered one from a buff this past year. the Hammer will work also out to 300 yards nicely on plains game and with a 50 yards zero very close at the longer range, both companies always have them is stock. I run them at around 2500 fps. good luck

 

[Mountaineer]

I have shot a bunch of plains game with the 350 TSX. It works great!

 

[DaddyFlip]

FWIW, Buffalo Bore has settled on the 450 TSX for its 458 WM and Lott DG loadings and Tim writes why in his product descriptions for each. Might be a useful data point for you to look at. For me as a novice, I agree with the philosophy of backing off a notch from the heaviest for caliber bullet; 270 for 375, 350 for 416, and 450 for 458. Whether the philosophy translates to practical reality is another matter.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

FWIW, Buffalo Bore has settled on the 450 TSX for its 458 WM and Lott DG loadings and Tim writes why in his product descriptions for each. Might be a useful data point for you to look at. For me as a novice, I agree with the philosophy of backing off a notch from the heaviest for caliber bullet; 270 for 375, 350 for 416, and 450 for 458. Whether the philosophy translates to practical reality is another matter.

he still lists the 400 grain load

 

[hoytcanon]

he still lists the 400 grain load

Perhaps, but it does seem like they are favoring the 450 these days, so perhaps Barnes will release the 400 for public consumption... one can hope.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

I think I will have to stay with CEB and Hammer bullets I have had great luck with them