4457 changes this past week

[JGRaider]

This thread is the first I had heard of it for anything other than a gun. Where do you go/ contact to get this?

Not at all my expeience. Like probably most everyone else, I take Ipads, cell phones, cameras, optics, etc to Africa along with rifles. The only thing on my 4457 is the rifle and appropriate rifle info, nothing else. Nobody has ever asked me anything at all about any of my personal gear.

The 4457 serves two purposes from my view. 1) To secure the SAPS license/permits, and other African country's permits for that matter, and 2) Clearing your rifle with US Customs upon arriving back in US.

 

[robertq]

I'm assuming you don't literally mean ALL personal items such as cameras, clothing etc. I do question if I need one for my recurve bow now, however. I was told I needed no permits or paperwork for a bow. What is your understanding on this?

The 4457 is proof that you own the items you are bring out of the USA .
So when you return you have proof you did'nt purchased it abroad.
I have my scope, camera, knife. etc. on my 4457.
Do not put more that ONE firearm on each 4457.
If you do they will question where the other firearm is when you return.

 

[rookhawk]

Please be advised that there is nothing posted on the official Customs Website about any changes to the 4457.
Please be reminded that nothing is official unless notice is given and posted on the website as protocol dictates.
The 4457 is for all personal items leaving the US, not only firearms.
We have a call into Customs headquarters to validate any rumors.
Please standby.
Best,
Robert

Robert, that may be true but customs is a lawless bunch and not likely to adhere to the law. Have you noticed that all 4457 forms are illegal at present? They expired and therefore are invalid. Customs doesn't have a valid update on their website. I called and emailed, their reply was so what, use the expired/invalid form.

Customs should never sign an expired form but here they go. Hope foreign powers accept them!

 

[JimP]

None of my 4457's have a expiration date on them and I have several with the last 2 being issued a year ago this May. They do however have a form date on them.

 

[RogerHeintzman]

BRICKBURN,
NO!

How I found out Monday was redoing my 4457 for my August safari. I sent in my binos for repair and they returned to me a new pair, so I needed to redo my 4457. My hunting buddy was going to Sioux Falls, 3 hours away and stopped by the Customs office for me with my new binos and redone 4457, he also had my existing signed 4457 to prove my rifle and other items. Eric called me and informed me of the change. The agent dated my form May 28th, 2016 so it is valid before, during and after my safari. He stated the change just happened within the past week.

Originally the 4457's were good for life if no items changed. Any and all items that you value should be listed on the 4457 for proof of ownership taken out of the states.

My forms never had a expired, invalid date on them, just a date in the lower right hand corner of 06/92! Just shows how old the forms are my customs office uses and I have never had a problem with them. I took a whole tablet of forms from customs so I could make them out before getting to the customs office.
In fact, of all my African trips, only once has my rifle been checked upon return, then last year returning from NZ.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

I will personally call my SF office and see if I can get a bulletin of sorts from them and get it posted here.

 

[RogerHeintzman]

Me again everyone.

I just called the customs office I use and spoke to the officer who did my 4457 on Monday.

Last Friday these officers were informed by their boss that the African Gov't (and I am assuming SA gov't) cuz arriving in Joburg and doing the SAPS there, is requiring the 4457's are dated within 6 months of your safari or they are invalid! PERIOD!!!

I have a e-mail message of the same to Jerome who hopefully knows who or which site(s) to check to get the official announcement of this change and get it posted here for all to read.

We do not know what will happen if you arrive in SA with a invalid 4457. I assume you will not get an approved rifle permit. Perhaps a pocket full of 5 dollar bills may help.

I am Golden with my 4457 for my August Sable/Buff safari.

You all take care.

 

[K-man]

Just remember like Robert said, the 4457 is to prove ownership on RETURNING to the U.S.! Customs does not care about other countries, just to make sure you are not bringing an illegal gun back with you. It is their form they honor it as long as you own the item.

 

[RogerHeintzman]

Ok, me again!

I just did a search on riflepermits.com for 4457 changes and found nothing.

 

[rookhawk]

A form date is an expiration date. If form expires 1/1/16 and its signed today, it's not legit.

 

[JimP]

A form date is an expiration date. If form expires 1/1/16 and its signed today, it's not legit.

If you look at 99% of the forms out there that have a date on them that date is somewhere in the distant past. All it means is that it was issued or changed in some form on that date.

 

[rookhawk]

Negative. It's the OMB expiration date.

 

[JimP]

Negative. It's the OMB expiration date.

So you are saying that my 4457's with a form date of 6/94 and no good?

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I worked for a company that was obsessed with forms. US Government ones along with theirs and none of the forms had a currant date on them.

 

[rookhawk]

Current form:

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP Form 4457_0.pdf

Expired and was illegal on 2/29/16

Noted in top right corner of form.

Our gov't selectively enforces such things. Foreign powers don't always take a lax approach.

Let's be clear, a signed CBP officer signed my form AFTER the last legal date of the form. It's not legal so all we can do is hope the Africans are flexible.

 

[JimP]

That one has a expiration date on it, mine don't.

 

[JGRaider]

I agree with rookhawk. The exp date on the 4457 is for the form being used, not the 4457 itself. I know Anne at Air2000 heard about this fiasco that had occured a few times in SA where SAPS agents thought the whole form was invalid because of the expiration date for the form. She is very well connected over there and confronted a few folks over this. That's the last I heard of it.

 

[Royal27]

I agree with rookhawk. The exp date on the 4457 is for the form being used, not the 4457 itself.

Right, it refers to the control number expiration date uoin which the control number must be nenewed. Not to the paper itself. Now would someone in SA know this???

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperwork_Reduction_Act

And my 4457s are both undated and a date of 2012. The 2012 form I got last week, go figure!

 

[BWH]

I would think DFW has a CBP office you could get into and out of fairly quickly without too much trouble, no?

Actually Pain.... Hour to get there + tolls & parking.... After you have tried to get appt with CBP... No walk ins.... Good luck on them even picking up phone.... Then hour+ tolls back.... Half day at best for total BS.

I got it ironed out with the local CBP at muni airport that did my original. He's legit.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Actually Pain.... Hour to get there + tolls & parking.... After you have tried to get appt with CBP... No walk ins.... Good luck on them even picking up phone.... Then hour+ tolls back.... Half day at best for total BS.

I got it ironed out with the local CBP at muni airport that did my original. He's legit.

Yeah any CBP office can cover it.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Me again everyone.

I just called the customs office I use and spoke to the officer who did my 4457 on Monday.

Last Friday these officers were informed by their boss that the African Gov't (and I am assuming SA gov't) cuz arriving in Joburg and doing the SAPS there, is requiring the 4457's are dated within 6 months of your safari or they are invalid! PERIOD!!!

I have a e-mail message of the same to Jerome who hopefully knows who or which site(s) to check to get the official announcement of this change and get it posted here for all to read.

We do not know what will happen if you arrive in SA with a invalid 4457. I assume you will not get an approved rifle permit. Perhaps a pocket full of 5 dollar bills may help.

I am Golden with my 4457 for my August Sable/Buff safari.

You all take care.

Wow. I'd love to see that directive from SAPS or Home affairs.
Sure seems strange.
Thanks for sharing the info.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

I emailed Henry Durrheim at riflepermits.com in regards to this issue and here is his reply:


Hi Jerome

We don’t have any issues currently with the SA Police, they still do accept old 4457 forms, we did however had a problem last year when the SA Police at the airport refused to issue permits as they referred to the expiry date on the CBP4457 customs form and informed the client that the form had expired, we then enquired with US customs and this was the feedback from US customs:

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

If this issue is not resolved to your satisfaction, you may reopen it within the next 7 days.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

Subject
Form 4457 has an expiration date of 2/29/2016 and we are told will not be accept...


Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (PIO Butler)
12/16/2015 08:17 AM

Thank you for contacting the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) INFO Center.

Although this form is widely accepted in other countries, the purpose of CBP Form 4457 is to prove the item was in the U.S. prior to your travels, not proof of ownership to other countries. As long as the Certificate of Registration is for the same equipment, it can be used more than once. The description of the item and serial number must match. The expiration and subsequent replacement of the form does not negate the validity of the registration. Please check with the South African embassy to see what alternative documents they will accept as proof of ownership in the event the form is not accepted. The expiration is just the date that triggers a review of the form by the Office of Management and Budget. These types of forms continue to be valid until they are replaced by a new form.

If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to call our toll-free number 877-CBP-5511 (877-227-5511). From outside the United States, please call 202-325-8000 - you may incur charges from your telephone service provider for this call. Our service hours are Monday through Friday from 9 a.m.-4 p.m. Eastern Time. We are closed on all U.S. federal holidays.

We hope our answers ease your entry into the United States. Please understand these answers are informational only, The CBP officer who speaks with you upon arrival determines the admissibility of goods and visitors.

Thank you again for contacting the CBP INFO Center.

Sincerely,
CBP INFO Center


Kind regards,
Henry