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375 H&H Heavy Bullets vs 416
- Thread starter TOBY458
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FYI, anyone transiting through RSA can't have two of the same caliber.
Kevin Peacocke
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The answer is obvious, two 375's have far more frontal area than a 416. And easier to shoot accurately. So take a light double in 375 with a QD scope or red dot and you have everything. Put 350 solids in it and you have two chances if an ellie shows up uninvited.
Ray B
AH legend
More restrictive anti-gun legislation from officials that are afraid of the citizens they are supposed to serve?
People transiting or coming into the country to hunt are not citizens. I never could figure out the reason for that particular rule though it has been there a long while. I just take two different calibers if I stop over on my way to the hunting destination.
WAB
AH ambassador
Actually you can. I’ve done it. I just had to submit a letter explaining the need for the second rifle in the same caliber. I told them it was a backup rifle and they were fine. The truth was that it was for my son who was flying over later and we did not want him to have the hassle of traveling with a gun.
Hello Toby;
Funny you would agonize on this issue now, because so am I
...Here is the status of my research:
1) Unless I am confused (?), Blaser offers 2 barrels in .416 Rem. The "Safari" barrel that is 25.6" long and 22 mm at the muzzle; and the "Selous" barrel which is also 25.6" long and 22 mm at the muzzle. The difference between the two are barrel band swivel / barrel band front sight / express rear sight on the Selous, and regular iron sights only on the Safari. Not to mention almost $1,000 more for the Selous...
2) In both cases, the .416 Rem barrels are likely heavier than the .458 Lott barrel. To the best of my knowledge (?) the .458 Lott only comes in Selous form, and this one is only 23" long. So the .458 Lott will have the same external contour with a bigger bore; and will be 2.5" shorter than the .416 Rem, hence it will probably be lighter...
My own path will be to use 350 gr slugs with the .375 H&H semi-weight barrel that I already own; and to jump straight to .458 Lott for a true big bore. Like many others, I reckon that a 350 gr .375 H&H comes pretty darn close enough to a 400 gr .416 Rem or Rigby (same difference!) to not warrant having both .375 H&H and .416 Rem barrels, and the .458 Lott is in a different league: a true "stopper"...
As far as the stock is concerned, my choice with the 350 gr bullet is the steel receiver stock. Remember than 10% increase in ejecta weight = 20% increase in free recoil; the 350 gr loads recoil markedly more than the 300 gr loads...
My .375 H&H with steel receiver and semi-weight weighs 11.5 lbs. exactly with a Leica Magnus i 1-6x24 on board and without the 16 oz. kickstop in the stock. Sure, it is on the heavier side for a .375, but the extra weight makes it is so easy to shoot the 350 gr well. With this configuration, no need for a lead-sled and a heavy bench to produce clover leaf groups. This is great...
One would get to approximately the same 11.5 lbs. weight with the alloy receiver stock and adding the 16 oz. kickstop...
If I want a lighter .375 for long walks, the alloy stock (without kickstop) will shave 1.2 lbs. off it, making it 10.3 lbs. with the semi-weight barrel and Magnus 1-6x24, and this will be great for shooting the 300 gr slugs very accurately.
I reckon that the .458 Lott configuration will come at about the same weight. The .375 H&H semi-weight barrel actually measure 21.6 mm at the fore-end tip and only tapers to 19 mm on the last 13". The .458 Lott is 22 mm out to the muzzle, but the bore hole is much larger and the barrel is 2.5" shorter... An 11.5 lbs. .458 Lott ought to be right. My current one is 8.8 lbs., and believe you me it is too light
My only hesitation at this stage is whether I go R8 .458 Lott now, or if I continue a year or two with the Krieghoff double .470 until iron sights finish to disappear in a blurry haze...
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PS: I will add that in my above post I am quoting the length of the .416 Selous barrel from the EuroOptic website, but I have my doubts. The Blaser Germany documentation seems to indicate that ALL Selous barrels are 23.6".............
Opposite Pole
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Don’t give up on your double, put a red dot sight on it!
C.W. Richter
AH legend
Heavy bullets in 375 are 350 gr'ers. They reportedly perform like a .416 (higher V and SD of the 375 make it all but equal to the 416, just not in frontal area/wound channeling for the first shot). Although I gave my 375 to my son in favor of the 416, I truly believe the aforementioned and admit that the 375 has greater utility.
C.W. Richter
AH legend
is that USD or Rand? ?? ???! IF USD, we could buy another decent (prettier, classic, etc.) rifle for that price. I'd far rather have the takedown Dakota than the short plastic thing with the gear shift knob.
lol if only they'd open their doors again...
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Yep, it is US $.
Welcome to the Blaser world. Here is a hint: anything that says Safari or uses an African word (e.g. Selous or Kilombero) is priced essentially double or triple everything else:
Example 1: Pro stock (alloy receiver) $1,500 - Safari stock (steel receiver) $4,500.
Example 2: standard barrel $1,200 - Safari barrel $2,300 - Selous barrel $3,000.
It is truly maddening because the R8 is an ideal system for traveling to Africa (and elsewhere). I maintain that R8 DG prices have nothing to do with production costs and everything to do with marketing to the safari-going clients who are apparently perceived as endlessly wealthy...
Keep an eye out for occasional 40% to 50% discounts when dealers adjust "safari" inventory levels, or "used-as-new" components from folks who did not realize their steel receiver stock with kickstop and Selous barrel combo would weigh in at 13 lbs...
Bingo! Thanks BeeMaa for a quick check. His .416 Rem Selous barrel is indeed 23.6".........
Another ineptitude by EuroOptic. I lost count of the number of erroneous information they have given me by website, email, live chatroom, or telephone calls.
Sad............
In summary,TOBY, we each have our own understanding of what "heavy" means for a rifle, but the weight permutations are almost endless and I hope that this will help:
All these rifle weights can be lowered by ~6 oz. if a 13 oz. Leupold 1-6x24 is mounted in place of a 19 oz. Euro (Swaro / Leica / Zeiss / S&B) 1-6x24 scope.
I personally like:
.375 H&H/300 gr around 9.5 to 10 lbs.
.375/350 gr around 10 to 11 lbs.
.416/400 gr around 10.5 to 11.5 lbs.
.458 Lott/500 gr around 11.5 to 12 lbs.
I know that I lean on the "heavy" side of the argument, but, as I said elsewhere, if it all comes down to the notion of "an additional 1 lb. will be felt at the end of a long hunting day," to which I wholeheartedly agree, it will do me a lot more good to loose 10 lbs. of belly fat before the hunt, rather than to shave 1.5 lbs. of rifle weight
It is another value of the R8 to offer so many possibilities...
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C.W. Richter
AH legend
Not to mention how much better you will shoot the rifle for each lb (of recoil absorption) added!Yep, it is US $.
Welcome to the Blaser world. Here is a hint: anything that says Safari or uses an African word (e.g. Selous or Kilombero) is priced essentially double or triple everything else:
Example 1: Pro stock (alloy receiver) $1,500 - Safari stock (steel receiver) $4,500.
Example 2: standard barrel $1,200 - Safari barrel $2,300 - Selous barrel $3,000.
It is truly maddening because the R8 is an ideal system for traveling to Africa (and elsewhere). I maintain that R8 DG prices have nothing to do with production costs and everything to do with marketing to the safari-going clients who are apparently perceived as endlessly wealthy...
Keep an eye out for occasional 40% to 50% discounts when dealers adjust "safari" inventory levels, or "used-as-new" components from folks who did not realize their steel receiver stock with kickstop and Selous barrel combo would weigh in at 13 lbs...
Bingo! Thanks BeeMaa for a quick check. His .416 Rem Selous barrel is indeed 23.6".........
Another ineptitude by EuroOptic. I lost count of the number of erroneous information they have given me by website, email, live chatroom, or telephone calls.
Sad............
In summary,TOBY, we each have our own understanding of what "heavy" means for a rifle, but the weight permutations are almost endless and I hope that this will help:
View attachment 389490
All these rifle weights can be lowered by ~6 oz. if a 13 oz. Leupold 1-6x24 is mounted in place of a 19 oz. Euro (Swaro / Leica / Zeiss / S&B) 1-6x24 scope.
I personally like:
.375 H&H/300 gr around 9.5 to 10 lbs.
.375/350 gr around 10 to 11 lbs.
.416/400 gr around 10.5 to 11.5 lbs.
.458 Lott/500 gr around 11.5 to 12 lbs.
I know that I lean on the "heavy" side of the argument, but, as I said elsewhere, if it all comes down to the notion of "an additional 1 lb. will be felt at the end of a long hunting day," to which I wholeheartedly agree, it will do me a lot more good to loose 10 lbs. of belly fat before the hunt, rather than to shave 1.5 lbs. of rifle weight
It is another value of the R8 to offer so many possibilities...
C.W. Richter
AH legend
Win or Montana M70 (or M98) $1K. Talley bases/rings $0.2K. Decent Leupold/Trijicon scope $1K. E.R. Shaw barrel of your chambering and specs $0.4K. NECG open sights, installed $0.3K. HS Precision Stock w/ pillars and bedding block $0.5K. Timney trigger $0.1K. Total=$3.5K. Buy 2-3 in your fav calibers and call it a day (for less than the Blaser) and pick up an SKB multi-gun (2 or 4) case. 1-hole groups. Not too light, not too heavy. I would never want the Cadillac escalade that converts from an SUV to a pickup truck. 'Just get both and enjoy them for their own specific purposes. (A gun weighs about 10 lb. Is it really difficult to carry an additional 10 in luggage with wheels?) lol Factoring in the additional bbl weights for the blaser, it's actually half that. (If 4 bbls, it's the same, for significant unnecessary additional cost, and it may not likely shoot as well as what's detailed above.) My profuse apologies if this was some sort of sales piece.
I live not too far from EuroOptic and have never, ever had a problem with them. Yes, they are over-taxed with international mail orders (the bulk of their business) due to the Chinavirus and the new Chinese diplomat Jo-Bi Din based guns/ammo panic. But, when I want something I simply drive there and check it out first-hand prior to purchase. It's not too difficult to double-check specs on the mfr page (I see these irregularities all the time in guns advertised for sale on-line by all middlemen!) I myself wouldn't cry if they said it was 23.6" and it turned out to be 24.1.
I live not too far from EuroOptic and have never, ever had a problem with them. Yes, they are over-taxed with international mail orders (the bulk of their business) due to the Chinavirus and the new Chinese diplomat Jo-Bi Din based guns/ammo panic. But, when I want something I simply drive there and check it out first-hand prior to purchase. It's not too difficult to double-check specs on the mfr page (I see these irregularities all the time in guns advertised for sale on-line by all middlemen!) I myself wouldn't cry if they said it was 23.6" and it turned out to be 24.1.
Amen!
Amen again!
I have a long record of being an upgraded CZ 550 patron (matched triplet in .300 Wby, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby) and I understand and agree with everything you say
But, but, but, there is one more aspect...
I am on record in my Blaser transition review (https://www.africahunting.com/threa...aser-r8-a-two-months-500-rounds-review.60483/) explaining why I finally went the Blaser route:
The main reason why I bought a Blaser R8 is best illustrated by these three pictures:
CZ 550 + Krieghoff Big Five = 2 calibers to Africa in a rifle case <50 lbs. but that exceeds 62" linear...
CZ 550 + Krieghoff Big Five = 2 calibers to Africa in a rifle case <50 lbs. and <62" linear...
Blaser R8 + Krieghoff Big Five = 3 calibers to Africa in a rifle case <50 lbs. and <62" linear...
To the best of my knowledge, there is simply no other way than a R8 (or similar) to bring 3 calibers to Africa, within the maximum weight (50 lbs.) and within the maximum linear size (62") allowed by the airlines.
Then I discovered how truly well thought out and well executed the system is, and I am not afraid to say that I was converted...
I am happy you have a good face to face experience with them. I live in Arizona, so driving by their store does not really work for me...
I am sure EuroOptic provides fine face to face service when their role is simply to let you garner by yourself the info you want by handling the product. This being said, the folks they have doing their website, and on the phone, have been, at least in my modest experience, truly not knowledgeable... Maybe I was just unlucky... or maybe my expectations are too high... but I do expect folks to know what they are selling (especially at Blaser prices)... One error is no big deal, half a dozen is too much in my book.
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C.W. Richter
AH legend
My gun case has been overweight in numerous hunting trips. In some cases, they just let it go and check the case, in others I pull out my wallet and pay the 0.5% relative-to-safari cost fee and settle into my seat. Airlines aren't in the habit of kicking you off flights and returning your ticket fees. It's not good business. I'm also leery of the std CZs as I've seen a few where the scope rings rip off the integral bases in heavy recoiling calibers. I believe some of the safari 550s and BRNOs had std. large magnum Mauser receivers set up for traditional bases and rings. Those i like! I would consider this, however... Hmm hot .338 in one bbl and .416 in the other. Just before they closed their doors, we were speaking about a .470 Capstick model!Amen!
Amen again!
I have a long record of being an upgraded CZ 550 patron (matched triplet in .300 Wby, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby) and I understand and agree with everything you say
But, but, but, there is one more aspect...
I am on record in my Blaser transition review (https://www.africahunting.com/threa...aser-r8-a-two-months-500-rounds-review.60483/) explaining why I finally went the Blaser route:
The first main reason why I bought a Blaser R8 is best illustrated by these two pictures:
CZ 550 + Krieghoff Big Five = 2 calibers to Africa in a rifle case <50 lbs. and <62" linear...
Blaser R8 + Krieghoff Big Five = 3 calibers to Africa in a rifle case <50 lbs. and <62" linear...
To the best of my knowledge, there is simply no other way than a R8 (or similar) to bring 3 calibers to Africa, within the maximum weight (50 lbs.) and within the maximum linear size (62") allowed by the airlines.
Then I discovered how truly well thought out and well executed the system is, and I am not afraid to say that I was converted...
PS: I am sure EuroOptic provides fine face to face service when their role is simply to let you garner by yourself the info you want by handling the product. This being said, the folks they have doing their website, and on the phone, have been, at least in my modest experience, truly not knowledgeable... Maybe I was just unlucky... or maybe my expectations are too high... but I do expect folks to know what they are selling (especially at Blaser prices)... One error is no big deal, half a dozen is too much in my book.
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Just travel Business then you won't have to worry about weight restrictions as much. If you do plenty of traveling then upgrading to business is either free with level of your airline membership or paying with miles.
Last time it happened in my presence (to a friend of mine) it involved ~$100 per flight and we had 6 flights (Phoenix to New York; New York to Johannesburg; Johannesburg to East London; then return). I personally can think of better ways to spend $600, but to each our own
C.W. Richter
AH legend
it'd take 4 such trips to buy just 1 extra bbl for the blaser, not factoring in the significant add'l. cost of the gun. still wise use of funds!Last time it happened in my presence (to a friend of mine) it involved ~$100 per flight and we had 6 flights (Phoenix to New York; New York to Johannesburg; Johannesburg to East London; then return). I personally can think of better ways to spend $600, but to each our own
the remaining $1,700 USD saved in just 1 trip can be invested and another rifle be built in time or another safari downpayment made. i bet PHs would fully agree with that logic.
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Did you get the fitted hard foam custom made?
Blaser R8 + Krieghoff Big Five = 3 calibers to Africa in a rifle case <50 lbs. and <62" linear...
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