375 H&H Heavy Bullets vs 416

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by TOBY458, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Enthusiast

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    I've been doing some thinking, since I returned from Africa on my recent Cape Buffalo, and plains game hunt. I shot 7 animals with my 375 H&H Kimber Talkeetna and Swift A Frame bullets, and a Cape Buffalo with my Winchester 416 Rem mag., with the same Swift bullets. All were clean kills and bullet performance was excellent.
    I also went to Austalia in 2015 and killed 3 Water Buffalo bulls with my 375 H&H Sako Kodiak, with Barnes TSX 300gr bullets. All were clean kills as well. None of the bulls ran out of sight before falling over. (I still kept pouring the lead to them). :)
    So, that being said, I wonder how much more effective is a 416 really over a 375 with heavy bullets and or Barnes bullets?
    Do I REALLY need to take 2 rifles next time???
     

  2. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Well, you’ve shot more big bovine than me, but from my readings by well know personalities they seem to think the 375 is plenty adequate until you get to elephant. Examples: Craig Boddington in a couple of his books says he has shot more buffalo with the 375 H&H and it does the job. Dr Kevin Robertson in his books stated the 375 H&H is adequate but using 350 gr or heavier bullets takes it into the 416 area.
    Me, I have no clue as long as I have a PH to back me if I screw up or if there are more than one that become aggressive.
    The bullet must go in the right place and it’s obvious you know where that is and can put it there.
     

  3. Adam S

    Adam S AH Veteran

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    I have nothing to add other than saying I'm very interested to hear opinions on this too. I have been agonizing (in a fun way) over the .375 vs .416 decision for months. Great question!
     
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  4. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    only reason i would bring both a 375 and a 416 on a hunt is if elephant or hippo (on land) was on the menu. i consider the 416 to be the absolute minimum for these two tasks. otherwise both cartridges are medium bores and perform roughly the same role. the 375 will have a little more range then the 416 while the 416 will give you a wider wound especially when using solids on the above mentioned animals.

    i personally use my 416 RM as a back up gun to one of my heavy rifles when hunting dangerous game. on my buffalo hunt i brought a 505 Gibbs and a 416 RM with the idea that if anything happened to the 505 Gibbs i could still use the 416 RM. this worked well as i ended up using the 416 for PG such as the pig in my avatar (thats a 416 RM on his nose).

    ALWAYS BRING TWO RIFLES, "things happen" and you never know if the rifle you brought for a specific purpose is going to have problems. on my first hunt my rifles scope had issues and i didnt have a second rifle. there was no camp rifle available at that location but thankfully another hunter was in camp and loaned me a rifle!

    -matt
     
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  5. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Enthusiast

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    The two rifle theory is definitely sound!
     
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  6. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I carry a second scope with QR rings already sighted in just in case of a scope breaking, but a second rifle! Hmmm...Toby 458, I think that’s your excuse for owning so many rifles:eek::ROFLMAO::LOL::D! I like it!
     
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  7. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Enthusiast

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    You mean you actually need an excuse for more rifles????:sneaky:
     
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  8. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I always thought the Africa two gun arsenal would be a 375 H&H for plains game down and 458 Lott for buffalo and up (I guess up is only elephant). In Kevin Thomas’s book he’s giving away on AH, that is his arsenal as a PH in Zimbabwe.
    A third rifle would be 30-06 or 300WM or such.
    JMT on it.

    Oh up would also might include hippo on dry land.
     
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  9. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

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    I do the same thing, two Leupold 1.5-5x scopes on Talley QR rings both sighted in . Two rifles seems like a lot to bring.
     
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  10. Jfet

    Jfet AH Fanatic

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    This is how you do it. You MUST have both a 416 and 375. The first three shots come from the 416. When the rest of the herd of Cape Buffalo come back to protect their fallen comrade, you will then use the fully loaded 375 to hold them at bay. Meanwhile, your gun bearer is reloading the 416. With practice you could replicate the last charge at Roark's drift from the movie Zulu.

    Let's have no more discussion of one gun trips.
     
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  11. WAB

    WAB AH Enthusiast

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    I’ve used the 350 gr woodleigh bullets in my .375. The penetration of the 350 gr solid has to be seen to be believed. I made a side brain shot on a big bull elephant and I don’t think it even slowed the bullet down.

    That said, I am more comfortable with my .458 Lott on buffalo. It just seems to get their attention.
     
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  12. WAB

    WAB AH Enthusiast

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    Oh and I agree, what is the point of a one gun safari?

    RE the comments on a second scope, the scopes on my .375 and .458 are in QD mounts. I would be very comfortable to 150 with the ghost ring on my .375 and 100 w the express sight on my Lott. I practice with them to ensure that they are ready to go if needed.
     
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  13. Ray B

    Ray B AH Fanatic

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    The .416 has about 1/4 more frontal area than the .375. This is not an insignificant amount, but it seems to me that if you are selecting two rifles for a trip into DG country that you might want to select a cartridge on the larger size that has a greater advantage: 375 & 458 about 1/2 greater frontal area; 375 & .470 nearly 60% increase. It just seems to me that the 375 & the 416 are so much alike that you might want more variety.
     
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  14. WAB

    WAB AH Enthusiast

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    I agree, a .375 or 9.3 paired with a .458/470/500 makes a lot of sense in dangerous game country. My buddy stopped a full on charge by a cow elephant last year in Zim (hunt report Bliksem) with his .375 while hunting plains game. After that we both decided that the .375 or 9.3 made sensible minimum plains game cartridges if dangerous game were in the area. It seems that if your plains game rifle is a .375 and you want something bigger for dangerous game, a larger step up than a .416 might be in order.
     
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  15. npm352

    npm352 AH Enthusiast

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    Anything under .600 Nitro Express is for old women and small children....at least that is what Mark Sullivan told me when I met him a few years back at a show and told him I was booked for an ele/buff hunt with a .375.
     
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  16. WAB

    WAB AH Enthusiast

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    LOL there’s an authority to hang your hat on!
     
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  17. Ray B

    Ray B AH Fanatic

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    Well, an authority anyway.
     
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  18. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Enthusiast

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    :) yep!
     
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  19. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Toby458, in my opinion it is always wiser to bring two guns on any hunt away from home. There is always the possibility of breakage or a malfunction. Having a second rifle available to you that you are familiar and comfortable with makes unforeseen circumstances a lot easier to deal with. If larger animals are on the menu I'd make sure the smaller of the two rifles I brought was up to the task.
     
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  20. geoff rath

    geoff rath AH Enthusiast

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    Thinking hurts my head; I should shoot more, and think less. But then Woodleigh (on the bandwagon, again!) make 450's in 404, and 416 caliber .... Bullet aren't THAT expensive compared to the total cost of the hunt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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