308 or 300 Win Mag for Leopard

[HankBuck]

47 yard shot from blind. Cat was dead about 20 yards from the tree.

@DLSJR - that looked like a very good shot - on a Cat that was about to “leave”, your shot “decision” and time to settle the cross hairs must’ve been made in less then a second ==== Perfectly executed under real “pressure” with very little time.
I can see how Leopards are often wounded - watching one for a long period of time that does Not present a good shot angle, adrenaline building, heart pounding —- minutes of watching & waiting and THEN it suddenly turns to LEAVE —— panic/Bad Shot —— Lost Trophy. But YOU handled it Perfectly!!!.

 

[Art Lambart II]

@Art Lambart II
Why waste money on the 200gn superformance when you can load a nice 225 gn partition or Woodleigh to the same speed and have even more power, 4,200fpe of muzzle energy then use the same load on all PG.
But
What do I know about the Whelen, that's right bucket loads.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Bob

Bob,

Some of us have great taste in rifle cartridges, and some of us are slow learners; I happen to be both. Dad and I have just started using CFE 223, we should have listened and started sooner. That powder works wonders in my 9.3x62 and 373 H&H.

 

[Art Lambart II]

By the way, how is your dad ? I haven’t heard from him in a while. We last spoke when I was on my most recent Safari (and my grandson’s first !) to Tanzania in 2023 (for hippopotamus on land). At that time, he was highly intrigued by hippopotamus hunting and wanted to use his .404 Jeffery on them (a magnificent choice !). I hope that he’s in good health & spirits ? He’s a true gentleman and loves his 6.5 mm Swedish Mausers !

@Hunter-Habib

Dad is doing well, and we talk almost every day. His legs are giving him trouble, and he can't get around as well as he used to. Stairs give him trouble, and ladders are out of the question. He can still deer hunt out of ground blinds or elevated platforms with short flights of stairs. He still shoots well, and I would love to do a Leopard hunt with him, but long plane flights are very hard on him. He just bought another DG rifle from a fellow AH member, a Burno 602 in 416 Rigby. He would like to buy a double in 450/400, but I can't convince him to "Pull the Trigger" and buy one. I'll have Dad reach out to you; maybe you can convince him to buy that double.

 

[DLSJR]

@DLSJR - that looked like a very good shot - on a Cat that was about to “leave”, your shot “decision” and time to settle the cross hairs must’ve been made in less then a second ==== Perfectly executed under real “pressure” with very little time.
I can see how Leopards are often wounded - watching one for a long period of time that does Not present a good shot angle, adrenaline building, heart pounding —- minutes of watching & waiting and THEN it suddenly turns to LEAVE —— panic/Bad Shot —— Lost Trophy. But YOU handled it Perfectly!!!.

Thank you for your kind words. It actually was a bit different than that short video clip which was shot with Alan’s iPhone, as we have nearly 5 minutes of that Tom feeding before I shot him. That video is just the last minute. Alan Vincent had told the truck to come pick us up at 8:00 and the leopard climbed into the tree at 7:55.

I’ll never forget the cat’s arrival. My son was sitting behind and between me and Alan. I was tucked far enough to the left while waiting that I couldn’t see the bait when the cat showed up. My son was positioned where he had a great view and he watched the leopard climb the trunk and walk out onto the limb. He leaned right against my ear and whispered “Don’t move a muscle”. I knew exactly what that meant. Shortly after my son whispered “He’s looking the other way, get on the gun now”. After that the Tom fed for over 4 minutes.

There were multiple times when the cat was reaching down to feed that I felt confident driving a bullet right between his shoulder blades but Alan wanted me to wait for a broadside shot. So we waited.

When the cat suddenly looked up and began walking down the limb to depart, it was because he could hear the truck coming to get us. I figured the cat would pause to gather himself before jumping down, so was waiting for that pause to shoot. As the video shows, my shot was right at that pause and the cat took a pretty spectacular somersault off the limb. After the shot Alan asked how I felt and I told him the shot was good. Then we played the video back several times to look at where the bullet (.338 225 grain Bearclaw) hit him and we said “Dead Cat”. The truck had pulled up so we climbed out of the blind and everyone watched the video a couple times. The crew was happy and saying “Chui Aliyekufa” which literally translates to Dead Leopard.

We all walked up to the edge of the Korongo together and looked down. After just a couple seconds Robert, one of Alan’s trackers, pointed to the leopard and shouted “Kabubi”. And when we got back to camp we did enjoy a good Kabubi. After that, we had an early lunch and a nap, then headed to the lake and went fishing the rest of the day.

 

[HankBuck]

Thank you for your kind words. It actually was a bit different than that short video clip which was shot with Alan’s iPhone, as we have nearly 5 minutes of that Tom feeding before I shot him. That video is just the last minute. Alan Vincent had told the truck to come pick us up at 8:00 and the leopard climbed into the tree at 7:55.

I’ll never forget the cat’s arrival. My son was sitting behind and between me and Alan. I was tucked far enough to the left while waiting that I couldn’t see the bait when the cat showed up. My son was positioned where he had a great view and he watched the leopard climb the trunk and walk out onto the limb. He leaned right against my ear and whispered “Don’t move a muscle”. I knew exactly what that meant. Shortly after my son whispered “He’s looking the other way, get on the gun now”. After that the Tom fed for over 4 minutes.

There were multiple times when the cat was reaching down to feed that I felt confident driving a bullet right between his shoulder blades but Alan wanted me to wait for a broadside shot. So we waited.

When the cat suddenly looked up and began walking down the limb to depart, it was because he could hear the truck coming to get us. I figured the cat would pause to gather himself before jumping down, so was waiting for that pause to shoot. As the video shows, my shot was right at that pause and the cat took a pretty spectacular somersault off the limb. After the shot Alan asked how I felt and I told him the shot was good. Then we played the video back several times to look at where the bullet (.338 225 grain Bearclaw) hit him and we said “Dead Cat”. The truck had pulled up so we climbed out of the blind and everyone watched the video a couple times. The crew was happy and saying “Chui Aliyekufa” which literally translates to Dead Leopard.

We all walked up to the edge of the Korongo together and looked down. After just a couple seconds Robert, one of Alan’s trackers, pointed to the leopard and shouted “Kabubi”. And when we got back to camp we did enjoy a good Kabubi. After that, we had an early lunch and a nap, then headed to the lake and went fishing the rest of the day.

@DLSJR - well you did Everything right and the good shot “opportunity” presented to you was extremely brief - but you made it. I think many other hunters might have rushed that shot and had different results….I’m Not certain that I would’ve made a perfect shot - But I know I would’ve “Taken that shot” rather then let the Cat walk off.
From the video that Leopard looked like a very good male - better then average and that would have further rev’d me up “waiting” for a shot to be presented…. Sometimes, while waiting for a good trophy to present a shot opportunity - I’ll try to keep calm by saying to myself “relax, he’s not that great, so what if it walks off, don’t rush - he’s No Big Deal…etc”. That would have NEVER worked if I was watching that Leopard, my mind might have started screaming”. “Shoot-SHOOT, hurry up !!” YOU held it together !

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I’ve been very patient and civilized with you for quite a while. And I was hoping that you would at least have the decency to refrain from trying to take cheap shots at me anymore. Clearly, my expectations were too high.

I can tell when people ask questions out of friendly curiosity/enthusiasm (the kind of questions which I tirelessly entertain both on & off these forums for YEARS) and when I’m interacting with a drunk immature hipster who likes to guzzle booze down his throat and troll MANY other hunters online to make up for his own inadequacies in life. A spoilt brat who is loathed by even his neighbors for his online “Keyboard Commando” antics. I’m not going to entertain the second kind. I don’t have to play that game with a punk who is less than HALF my age. A punk who still hasn’t grown up from overtly using the word “LOL” and the “HaHa” emoji. That tells the entire hunting community here much more about you than it does about me. I’m not answerable to you.

And I also know that choosing NOT to play your stupid games anymore will not cause me to lose my reputation on these forums. For one simple reason- There are more than a few people on these forums who can verify my dangerous game hunting experience. People on these forums whom I’ve grown quite close to over the last five years and whom I’ve let see everything about me firsthand.

Many people (including but not limited to MATURE older hunters such as Art Lambart’s father and @Rare Breed who have been hunting dangerous game for years) know extensively about my 2023 Tanzanian safari (such as the concession, outfitter, details, etc) because we were in video calls and/or exchanging photographs throughout the trip. And also about my other hunts in Africa & Asia. So I don’t need to entertain your cheap jabs at me anymore. I could answer your question but if previous experience has taught us all anything… it’s that you will keep looking for new ways to try to to discredit me.

It’s actually very sad. I was never even trying to interact with you in the first place. I was just minding my own business by trying to help out my fellow younger aspiring hunters. A few hunters chose to praise me. And just like that, you jumped in to start taking swings at me and pollute such an educational thread.

You can keep running around on these forums with your little emojis and hipster lingo. Every online forum needs a community clown, a drunk joker. You can keep calling me a fake. It doesn’t matter to me. And it doesn’t matter to real, mature older hunters with years of actual dangerous game hunting experience under their belt. I never think highly of myself but men like me are what little boys like you couldn’t even dream of becoming even if your life depended upon it. When I was your age, I fought for my country in a bloody nine month long war. I shot man eating dangerous game that were killing people by the dozens. I saved over four hundred young tribal girls from getting trafficked into forced prostitution rings. What did you do ? Act tough behind the safety of a computer screen while getting drunk out of your mind ?

If I pick up my IPAD today and write down a single paragraph, hunters from all across the globe will come to see it as infinitely more valuable than all of your tasteless garbage with your little Millennial generation emojis and cheap jokes. And I’m sure that most of them (such as @PerH , @Rare Breed , @HankBuck , @Art Lambart II , @Doug Hamilton , @Betterinthebush , @Sarg ) to name just a few) are not morons. Otherwise they wouldn’t have gotten where there are in life by believing frauds online.

I want to have nothing further to do with you anymore.

As you say, I’m a fraud and you surely have better things to do in life than try to interact with a fraud.

Take care.

You have been far more civil than I would have been under the circumstances. Don't worry, no real.hunters will.buy into it.

Now then, can you remind us on how to buy a copy of your book? I was.going to get a copy of it earlier but an eye surgery got in the way and I can't find the contact to get it now. I'm probably not the only one that wants a copy.

Take care my.friend.

Doug

 

[HankBuck]

I’ve been very patient and civilized with you for quite a while. And I was hoping that you would at least have the decency to refrain from trying to take cheap shots at me anymore. Clearly, my expectations were too high.

I can tell when people ask questions out of friendly curiosity/enthusiasm (the kind of questions which I tirelessly entertain both on & off these forums for YEARS) and when I’m interacting with a drunk immature hipster who likes to guzzle booze down his throat and troll MANY other hunters online to make up for his own inadequacies in life. A spoilt brat who is loathed by even his neighbors for his online “Keyboard Commando” antics. I’m not going to entertain the second kind. I don’t have to play that game with a punk who is less than HALF my age. A punk who still hasn’t grown up from overtly using the word “LOL” and the “HaHa” emoji. That tells the entire hunting community here much more about you than it does about me. I’m not answerable to you.

And I also know that choosing NOT to play your stupid games anymore will not cause me to lose my reputation on these forums. For one simple reason- There are more than a few people on these forums who can verify my dangerous game hunting experience. People on these forums whom I’ve grown quite close to over the last five years and whom I’ve let see everything about me firsthand.

Many people (including but not limited to MATURE older hunters such as Art Lambart’s father and @Rare Breed who have been hunting dangerous game for years) know extensively about my 2023 Tanzanian safari (such as the concession, outfitter, details, etc) because we were in video calls and/or exchanging photographs throughout the trip. And also about my other hunts in Africa & Asia. So I don’t need to entertain your cheap jabs at me anymore. I could answer your question but if previous experience has taught us all anything… it’s that you will keep looking for new ways to try to to discredit me.

It’s actually very sad. I was never even trying to interact with you in the first place. I was just minding my own business by trying to help out my fellow younger aspiring hunters. A few hunters chose to praise me. And just like that, you jumped in to start taking swings at me and pollute such an educational thread.

You can keep running around on these forums with your little emojis and hipster lingo. Every online forum needs a community clown, a drunk joker. You can keep calling me a fake. It doesn’t matter to me. And it doesn’t matter to real, mature older hunters with years of actual dangerous game hunting experience under their belt. I never think highly of myself but men like me are what little boys like you couldn’t even dream of becoming even if your life depended upon it. When I was your age, I fought for my country in a bloody nine month long war. I shot man eating dangerous game that were killing people by the dozens. I saved over four hundred young tribal girls from getting trafficked into forced prostitution rings. What did you do ? Act tough behind the safety of a computer screen while getting drunk out of your mind ?

If I pick up my IPAD today and write down a single paragraph, hunters from all across the globe will come to see it as infinitely more valuable than all of your tasteless garbage with your little Millennial generation emojis and cheap jokes. And I’m sure that most of them (such as @PerH , @Rare Breed , @HankBuck , @Art Lambart II , @Doug Hamilton , @Betterinthebush , @Sarg ) to name just a few) are not morons. Otherwise they wouldn’t have gotten where there are in life by believing frauds online.

I want to have nothing further to do with you anymore.

As you say, I’m a fraud and you surely have better things to do in life than try to interact with a fraud.

Take care.

@Hunter-Habib - years ago my COO and I were doing a Presentation to our CEO & Board of Directors. It was going well, a couple questions from Board members and one from our CEO indicated they were “pleased”. At the very end one person asked a sarcastic question and added a smug comment - my COO ignored it and closed out the presentation. Later, after we had left, I asked him “why didn’t You shut that guy down? He’s an as-hole”. My COO responded “only one Lion in that meeting and he was pleased with the presentation, no one else mattered — ignore the Hyenas”. So, @Hunter-Habib ——why are YOU responding & explaining to “Hyenas”?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

You have been far more civil than I would have been under the circumstances. Don't worry, no real.hunters will.buy into it.

Now then, can you remind us on how to buy a copy of your book? I was.going to get a copy of it earlier but an eye surgery got in the way and I can't find the contact to get it now. I'm probably not the only one that wants a copy.

Take care my.friend.

Doug

Dough, please don’t hesitate to reach me out with a private message. Otherwise, just contact @PerH

 

[DLSJR]

@DLSJR - well you did Everything right and the good shot “opportunity” presented to you was extremely brief - but you made it. I think many other hunters might have rushed that shot and had different results….I’m Not certain that I would’ve made a perfect shot - But I know I would’ve “Taken that shot” rather then let the Cat walk off.
From the video that Leopard looked like a very good male - better then average and that would have further rev’d me up “waiting” for a shot to be presented…. Sometimes, while waiting for a good trophy to present a shot opportunity - I’ll try to keep calm by saying to myself “relax, he’s not that great, so what if it walks off, don’t rush - he’s No Big Deal…etc”. That would have NEVER worked if I was watching that Leopard, my mind might have started screaming”. “Shoot-SHOOT, hurry up !!” YOU held it together !

We already knew it was a big, fully mature Tom as we had good trail camera pictures of him feeding a couple days earlier. It’s funny you mention him being a good male, a number og PH’s whom I know have seen that video and the most common comment is “He’s a bloody big leopard” as soon as they see the start of the video.

We were very fortunate.

 

[Houston Bill]

@Houston Bill
Bill
Bill for light and fast a nice 225gn partition at 2,900fps out of the Whelen would be ideal then use it on all PG.
I know @ NIGHTHAWK will disagree but at least he uses REAL bullets in his 243 to actually kill stuff.
I still don't like the 243.
Bob

You are correct @Bob Nelson 35Whelen, a 225gn partition at 2900 fps from the Whelen would be great medicine for leopard or lion. Personally I would not use a 243 on leopard even though Harry Selby allowed many of his clients to use that caliber on leopard.

I have used 100gn bonded bullets in my 243 to shoot animals as big a blue wildebeest but as you know I generally use 7mm, 30 cal or 338 cal for plains game or leopard.

 

[Houston Bill]

I have been a member of the forum for many years and found the forum to be filled with knowledgeable and helpful people. Yes there were differences but most were civil and did not become personal. I am increasingly seeing men and women who parade their ignorance for all to see and cast doubt on people with obvious life experience, published for all to see.@Hunter-habib has no real need to fabricate life experiences. We all judge for ourselves and you look like an idiot suggesting silly illegal calibres and practices. Everybody also judges you and then makes their own decision on your competency and I can tell you that they do not value your thoughts and opinions.

We are so fortunate to have people like @Hunter-Habib on AH with a willingness to share their vast wisdom and experiences. All of my experience with him has always been positive and I have learned a tremendous amount of valuable information. I just don't understand the clearly misguided, negative and ignorant banter. What purpose does it serve to improve the collective AH experience?

 

[Quest#1]

I have actually followed this thread to learn as i have a leopard booked and using a 300 wm and interested in what ppl with experience in the topic have to say.

Off ops thread but… @Hunter-Habib i personally have no clue if you are a fake or not. I appreciate what you contribute and i also enjoyed the book you published. Thank you!

@dchum do us all a favor smash the keyboard!
Also how much dangerous game have you hunted? Actually don’t answer i don’t really care.

 

[Miletic]

I don't have a book by Hunter Habib?
What is the name of the book?

 

[IvW]

You want a deer bullet, not an elk bullet.

You can call Hornady and ask them, but I would shoot whatever bullet has good expansion at the 80-150 yards that you will most likely be at in the blind.

If that is a 150, 165, 180 grain bullet in something like an Interlock that would be ideal.

In importance on the shot:
1. Shot placement.
2. Expansion, and this is both a product of terminal velocity and bullet construction.

In the 308, the 150 is probably great. 165 is probably fine.

In the 300, you might as well use the 180 or the 165.

What else are you hunting and what are you wanting that bullet to do?

Ask Hornady and Nosler what they recommend.

But do not let the bullet guy talk you into using a Partition or Swift type tough bullet, you don't need it. It is a detriment.

I have zero actual experience on leopards, but it is the same as anything else that needs to die right there. You don't want them to take a step.

I shoot a lot of animals here in Europe in heavy ferns, these ferns are up to your shoulders. So tracking is freaking impossible.

Some good options.

Nosler Ballistic tip in the 165 or 180
Hornady Interlock or tipped interlock in the 150-180
Hornady ELD-X
Sierra Game King
Berger Hunting bullets

The American Whitetail line from Hornady comes in this 150-180 grain Interlock, you don't even have to reload.

The interlock would take care of 99% of the animals on the African continent in either rifle cartridge.

80 to 150 yards???.....wont happen on my watch.......

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I have actually followed this thread to learn as i have a leopard booked and using a 300 wm and interested in what ppl with experience in the topic have to say.

Off ops thread but… @Hunter-Habib i personally have no clue if you are a fake or not. I appreciate what you contribute and i also enjoyed the book you published. Thank you!

@dchum do us all a favor smash the keyboard!
Also how much dangerous game have you hunted? Actually don’t answer i don’t really care.

@Quest#1

All the best for your upcoming leopard hunt. I highly recommend loading 200Gr Nosler AccuBond or 200Gr Nosler Partitions in your .300 Winchester Magnum. Have it fitted with a good telescopic sight (not too high magnification). I always prefer the Weaver K5 or Lyman Alaskan. But much more superior choices exist in modern times. My .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Remington Model 700 Kevlar Stock Custom wears a Leoupold telescopic sight now (on custom quick detachable mounts) and I am coming to really like it.

Try to use a zebra as a bait animal, if possible. They're most likely to draw in a leopard or lion. In humid terrain, please have your white hunter treat the bait with a salt rub in order to extend shelf life.

You will have one calm broadside shot at the unsuspecting leopard. As a point of aim, select any of the rosettes behind the lower shoulder.

If you do things right, you will not have any dangerous & potentially messy follow up job to embark on.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I don't have a book by Hunter Habib?
What is the name of the book?

Miletic, please don't hesitate to reach out to me or @PerH via inbox.

 

[dchum]

I have actually followed this thread to learn as i have a leopard booked and using a 300 wm and interested in what ppl with experience in the topic have to say.

Off ops thread but… @Hunter-Habib i personally have no clue if you are a fake or not. I appreciate what you contribute and i also enjoyed the book you published. Thank you!

@dchum do us all a favor smash the keyboard!
Also how much dangerous game have you hunted? Actually don’t answer i don’t really care.

Nice. Only responding because you commented directly to me. So I will keep going then.

Not sure what you’re on about ? I think I agreed above that a 180 accubond or a 200 eld-x would be a good choice? Is something wrong with that? Good luck on your upcoming cat hunt.

For the other part…
Still curious, anyone ever gone on an elephant hunt in Zambia 6 weeks before the season starts? Pretty telling when a Zam PH in this thread is the one that publicly points out that flaw in the story

But as said above, I MUST be drunk and booze fueled to be seeing inconsistency’s and irregularities in yalls idols comments and story’s. That is rich…

As I have said… I’m not the only one who thinks this way - just the only one who will point it out publicly. I guess they don’t want to be called drunks? Lol

I need DG experience to see lies? Ok

Cheers - again, only responding to your direct comment to me. It can all just be laid to rest.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

@Quest#1

I had politely answered the drunk wannabe detective's comments last week. But here it is for you to see (in case you already haven't).

 

[Quest#1]

@dchum this thread is 308 or 300 for leopard not is someone lying or not.
Have you hunted or do you have a leopard hunt booked and have something to contribute or just shit on someone like 95% of what your posts.

Like i said Im actually interested in the original thread. So yes you should absolutely have some experience or planned leopard hunt to have real interest in this thread.

 

[dchum]

@dchum this thread is 308 or 300 for leopard not is someone lying or not.
Have you hunted or do you have a leopard hunt booked and have something to contribute or just shit on someone like 95% of what your posts.

Like i said Im actually interested in the original thread. So yes you should absolutely have some experience or planned leopard hunt to have real interest in this thread.

Ahh ok, I have to have the leopard deposit paid to comment that the 200 gr eld-x sounds like a good choice.


News flash, 308 or 300 will work. It’s been written for pages on this website


Happy Good Friday,

I’m headed to the coast