2 rifles same issue

John J

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I have had two rifles both NIB shoot far left. One was a 10 22 the other a TC pro hunter. Both have had to go back to the manufacturer, both shoot straight now. Has this happened to anyone else, what is the significance if any? This goes off another thread about the quality of American firearms. I'm about done with production guns. Remington, Kimber, TC, Ruger. It seems like a race to the bottom.
 

Shootist43

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John, it seems obvious to me that American firearms manufacturers have been engineering to a price point rather than for quality. There is a reason why I prefer to purchase older firearms or at least those with a proven track record. About a year ago I had to send a Winchester back for quality reasons.
 

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John, it seems obvious to me that American firearms manufacturers have been engineering to a price point rather than for quality. There is a reason why I prefer to purchase older firearms or at least those with a proven track record. About a year ago I had to send a Winchester back for quality reasons.
The majority of American firearms have always been engineering to a price point with the available technology. That's just the facts of the businessto survive. That said, technology has in general improved to the point most can be MOA or better out of the box from the factory. So it's sad to hear it isn't always so. Hopefully this is a fluke.

My newest firearms in terms of manufacturing are in fact a Ruger 10/22, Ruger #1 in 30-06 and a Savage model 10 stainless steel in 7mm-08. All 3-4 years old. No complaints from the 10/22 for all the practice I do with it in the 20-50 yard range. And the other two shoot a tad under MOA. I own a T/C Encore from 2001 which shoots great.
 

John J

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I was wondering if the left shooting rifles had to do with the way the barrels were installed into the receiver. But the single shot rules this out. My first rifle was a Model 700 30 06 I bought 26 years ago for about $675. Now they can be had for half the price more or less depending on model. I picked up my son a Model 7 308. First trip to the range we could hardly chamber a cartridge. The same gunsmith who sent his 10 22 back to Ruger had a look and a bit of file work has the rifle running properly. Having a conversation with the gunshop manager we both agree we would rather pay more for quality than what is being put out today. I'm not at the Rigby price point....yet. But I'd rather spend $3-5K on a well put together package from a quality smith. All this is a teachable moment for my 15 year old son who has had issues with two of his rifles mentioned thus far. We are waiting for AHR to accept new customers. His 375 will get a number 2 upgrade, and in time a new stock. Buy once and be happy, kid will have a discriminating eye after that I bet.
 

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Interesting, I wonder what the percentage are that are not to an acceptable standard?
I know this is in relation to American produced rifles but it’s sad to see when Turkish shotguns, Japanese Howa Rifles and Finnish Tikka generally are good quality in their respective price points.
I am doing one custom but that’s a want not a need and I’m getting older and can finally afford it so to speak.its rebarrelling and restocking a Tikka with some parts upgrades. Brass and Dies have been a hefty chunk too.
I guess like anything if they can make it it can fail. It’s frustrating but most things a
Can be rectified.
Here is a funny one. My Brother opened a Pack of Nosler BT projectiles and of the total count for the box the count was correct but there were 2 soft point projectiles of the correct calibre but it was short by 2 of the correct projectiles.
 

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I think it needs to be kept in mind that its not just "American" manufacturing, its "mass" manufacturing at the opening price point levels. There are countless gun builders in the US whom will build a quality rifle with fantastic components. There are no shortage of 'customer's action builders, barrel builders, triggers, etc. You can have a full custom 10/22 built for $600 that is more personalized and a nail driver.

The race to the bottom pricing entices sales, and most are great out of the box. But with mass production, errors can be greater in frequency. Plenty of Smith's here building off of production actions or custom actions that can make an incredible rifle for sub 2k-2500.
 

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If a business focuses on quality and customer service, the dollars will come. But it seems like the opposite has taken precedents today.
Example: I worked 3 1/2 years for Western Cutlery (oldest knife company west of the Mississippi) a second generation family owned business. Then Coleman bought them out. All down hill from there. I moved back into the high tech arena. Meantime, Old man Coleman died and the rich Coleman kids wanted to play rather than carry on the name. A leverage buyout was done. Coleman companies were sold off to pay the debt (still allowed to use the Coleman name strangely). The smaller companies have disappeared. The US manufacturing went to China.
All to make more money and destroy the quality and name. This is just one example.
Remington (I still like older ones), Kimber (I still like Kimbers), Barnes (now owned by Sierra, so maybe it will survive and I still like both), and almost all others in the outdoor sports are in the corporate money first “shuffleboard”. Sad what it seems to have come to.
JME&O
 

Shootist43

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I agree with those who say firearms are engineered to a price point so the manufacturer can stay in business. Were the price points of 60(s), 70(s), & 80(s) different than they are now relatively speaking? Case in point, the Remington 870 Wingmaster that I bought new back then, is a far cry from 870(s) being sold today.
 

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In answer to John J's original question, yes, I've encountered two production rifles that had quality issues: a Remington 700 in .300 SAUM and a TC Encore in .300 Win Mag. After that, I started having rifles custom built or building my own.
 

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When you say they shot far left, are you referring to iron sights, or scope? If they were scoped rifles, did the scopes run out of adjustment? It's kind of strange that the TC would shoot to the left, since the scope mounts directly to the barrel.
 

John J

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When you say they shot far left, are you referring to iron sights, or scope? If they were scoped rifles, did the scopes run out of adjustment? It's kind of strange that the TC would shoot to the left, since the scope mounts directly to the barrel.
Yes, iron sights on both rifles.
 

John J

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In answer to John J's original question, yes, I've encountered two production rifles that had quality issues: a Remington 700 in .300 SAUM and a TC Encore in .300 Win Mag. After that, I started having rifles custom built or building my own.
That's where I'm at these day too.
 

mikecatt13

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When you say they shot far left, are you referring to iron sights, or scope? If they were scoped rifles, did the scopes run out of adjustment? It's kind of strange that the TC would shoot to the left, since the scope mounts directly to the barrel.
Wondering the same. How far left? And were they scoped and at what distance?
 

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Did they send back the guns with new barrels? If the barrels were the originals, may have been the sights. Possible stuck adjustment (if Williams style), needed to be tapped over a bit, or just damaged.
 

John J

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Wondering the same. How far left? And were they scoped and at what distance?
I don't remember the amount the 22 was off. But at about 20' the rear sight was out of windage and still not near the bull. The TC was 4" left at 50 yards and I was running out of windage.
 

John J

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Did they send back the guns with new barrels? If the barrels were the originals, may have been the sights. Possible stuck adjustment (if Williams style), needed to be tapped over a bit, or just damaged.
The factory paperwork wasn't specific in what they did on either rifle. The TC had a list of every part but no description was given if it was checked, replaced or out of spec.
 

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My 2¢, With firearm companies seemingly changing hands every few years, I'm sure new people come in a try and cut costs. What this does to employee morale and attention to detail is anyone's guess but looking at today's rifles, I'm not sure they could be made any cheaper. IMHO, at least two and maybe more gun companies need to close up shop for good.
Edit: One experience with a Remington Model 7 I purchased in '06. Pulled the barrel to do a setback and the chamber was .010 out of concentric with the tenon. It now wears a Pac-Nor.
 
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I have had two rifles both NIB shoot far left. One was a 10 22 the other a TC pro hunter. Both have had to go back to the manufacturer, both shoot straight now. Has this happened to anyone else, what is the significance if any? This goes off another thread about the quality of American firearms. I'm about done with production guns. Remington, Kimber, TC, Ruger. It seems like a race to the bottom.
@John J
A mate of mine bought a Ruger No1 in 7x57 international model that we couldn't sight in. It worked out the barrel was bent. They refunded his money.
Bob
 

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I'm truly not trying to disregard anyone's previous post. I am alone not denying that quality has somewhat gone to crap over the course of 20 years for US based "rifle" manufacturers. This includes Browning, Weatherby, Ruger, Winchester and it pains me to agree with the Remington nay-sayers, even Remington. That being said, the past 2 custom builds I've had done still require a break in period (X amount of rounds and proper cleaning). Kinda makes me wonder if some of the previously mentioned rifles I've had just didn't have a high enough round count for proper break-in. Who knows?
 

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I'm truly not trying to disregard anyone's previous post. I am alone not denying that quality has somewhat gone to crap over the course of 20 years for US based "rifle" manufacturers. This includes Browning, Weatherby, Ruger, Winchester and it pains me to agree with the Remington nay-sayers, even Remington. That being said, the past 2 custom builds I've had done still require a break in period (X amount of rounds and proper cleaning). Kinda makes me wonder if some of the previously mentioned rifles I've had just didn't have a high enough round count for proper break-in. Who knows?
Curious as to what barrel brand you used for the customs. A good one is usually done within 20 rounds.
 

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