450 Rigby vs 460 Weatherby

I don't have any doubt that the 460 Weatherby is hell on wheels, but I have no desire for one. I own a very used Mark V in 270 Weatherby and a Rem XCR II (7.5 lbs with scope unloaded) rechambered to 375 Weatherby. It's just my opinion if you're going to have to handle that much recoil, you're better off with a 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs in a nice Mauser type CRF rifle without the exaggerated Monte Carlo stock. I have nothing against Weatherby rifles or calibers, as I mentioned I have two.
 
My 450 Rigby weighs in at 10.5 lbs with 2 Mercury Reducers.. It will tip well over 11 when it's loaded.. The CZ Slicker made a well balanced Rifle.. Heavy but Balanced..
 
lwaters said:
I read an article of Jack O' Connor where he used 460 Weatherbye cases to reload a 416 Rigby by turning the belt of the case on a lay.
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Harry Selby told me he did the same thing.
 
My gunsmith will love the idea to built a 450 Rigby...

The twist will be 14", but which barrel length would you recommend?
24" or better 26" (not to waste any energy :cool: )?
 
Luederitz said:
My gunsmith will love the idea to built a 450 Rigby...

The twist will be 14", but which barrel length would you recommend?
24" or better 26" (not to waste any energy :cool: )?
Click to expand...
I'd go with a 22" barrel. I believe you'll get the velocity you want and maintain portability. My AHR CZ550 has a 22" barrel without the brake, 23.5" barrel with the brake. I personally wouldn't want the barrel any longer. You'll not find yourself needing the velocities obtainable with a longer barrel in this cartridge. You can push a 500gr Swift A-Frame to 2350 to 2400 fps or a 550gr SP at 2275 fps plus with a hefty charge of H-4350 in a 22" barrel. I'm sure if you push it you could get another 100 fps as it has the capacity. There's really no need to go faster. You don't attain much at the higher velocities....except some very obnoxious recoil.
 
Aside from some design differences, there is no other difference between these two cartridges. The only difference is that the cartridge 450 Rigby was supplied with a practical load right from the start, unlike the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum, which was initially extremely overloaded, giving it the bad reputation that she really did not merit.
 
grand veneur said:
Aside from some design differences, there is no other difference between these two cartridges. The only difference is that the cartridge 450 Rigby was supplied with a practical load right from the start, unlike the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum, which was initially extremely overloaded, giving it the bad reputation that she really did not merit.
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Weatherby didn’t gain many supporters amongst the PH community with their addition of the muzzle brake they added to their rifles. Damaging the hearing of those tasked with a hunters safety is not the best recoil reduction strategy.

Plus the stout load caused poor shots from inexperienced hunters from flinching/poor shooting techniques, placing everyone in the hunting party at risk with a wounded animal follow up.
 
The problems with the 460 Weatherby Magnum were an overloaded cartridge in a rifle with a classic design, rather intended for a cartridge of the mid-range class, and sometimes without open sights but a scope with normal eye relief. All this occurring during a period as large caliber cartridges were dropping one after another and the habit of shooting with big bore rifles was increasingly lost.
 
There’s a huge difference between the two. The Rigby has style and class. The other does not.
 
The .460 Weatherby has been in-service since 1957. The .450 Rigby is a newcomer being developed in 1994. The .460 has readily available finest quality brass available for handloading.
 
How hard is it to find ammo? Id imagine if something happens to it on your way to africa getting mkre ammo would be somewhat difficult compared to a 416
 
In a way, we can't be to hard on Roy Weatherby for his rifle or cartridge designs, as that was the trend at that time. He was just ahead of everyone else.

The magnum belt was widely regarded at the time as being needed for strength at higher pressures, but now it's fallen out of favor. The shoulder gives the cartridge plenty to headspace on.

The super high pressures and velocities were seen as the next step forward in killing power, but we learned that typical bullets of that era weren't up to the job at those speeds.

The excessive pressures made a freebore section ahead of the chamber necessary, but ruined accuracy.

The nine lug MKV action was seen as a great advancement in strength over the 2 lug Mauser. More is better right?

The flashy high gloss finish on both metal and wood was very popular in an age of chrome and neon. We can't fault Roy for that, especially when most other firearms manufacturers were producing shiny glossy rifles long before he was.

Given what we know now, the 450 Rigby is the better choice both on paper and in the field. People who don't know will still choose the Weatherby. People who do know will choose the Rigby.
 
skydiver386 said:
People who don't know will still choose the Weatherby. People who do know will choose the Rigby.
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People who know better will choose a 458LOTT. ;)
 
I have 458 Win and Lott, and a 450 Rigby.
None of my rifles have muzzle brakes.

For the same bullet weight without the aid of recoil reducing, sound deafening brakes, there is a significant increase in recoil with each increase of velocity.

In similar weight rifles,
  1. 458 Win recoil is a healthy push that definitely wakes me up!
  2. 458 Lott recoil starts to be painful
  3. 450 Rigby recoil is a big step more than that of the Lott.
In past shooting sessions, I have shot my 458 Win as many as 40 times. The most I've shot the 450 Rigby was five times in one session. This was to to the blast (overpressure) much more than recoil. That was with factory ammo with 480 gr bullets at chronographed 2450 fps.

FYI, Since barrel length can affect one's perception of muzzle blast, here are the barrel lengths of each;
  • 458 Win - 25 inches
  • 458 Lott - 23 inches
  • 450 Rigby - 24 inches
I think my recovery time, or time between shots increases from the Win to Lott to Rigby.

I want to video me and my big bore shooting friend @Altitude sickness shooting each of these so me may know the time between shots!

Other shooters may not agree with me.

As reassuring as the push of recoil is against one's shoulder, recoil is not conducive to accuracy.
 
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I’m not a fan of the heavy caliber Weatherby rifles, but if I were going custom, I’d go with the .460 for easy brass availability, and ready access to high quality factory ammo if necessary. Many of the original problems with Weatherby ammo have been completely resolved by the Barnes TSX. Go with a 22” or 23” barrel, have it magna-ported to reduce muzzle jump without the evil nastiness of a true brake, and maybe download it to a point where you find it usable, and go hunt with it for the next 20 years. The Rigby is a “better” design, but that’s meaningless if there’s very limited brass and ammo availability.

If you really, really want the Rigby, then buy 300 or 400 cases when you buy the rifle.
 
All 100% true Mark.

Where we may differ in opinion is how well the individual shooter is able to handle recoil and gun weight.

I've taken the brakes off my rifles, as I noticed very little difference in recoil with them on. I did notice a difference in muzzle rise, depending on how much gas was vented upward.

To my way of thinking, each increase in power level should be accompanied by an increase in rifle weight. This is one area the Weatherby rifles in 460 got wrong. They were FAR to light for their power level, and the muzzle brake was a wrongheaded attempt to correct that.

If there is a corresponding increase in rifle weight along with the power level, recoil is tolerable. The big factor after that is the strength and endurance of the hunter to carry such a rifle. Currently I'm large enough, strong enough and stupid enough to carry a 13+ pound rifle. In the future that equation will probably change.
 
skydiver386 said:
All 100% true Mark.

Where we may differ in opinion is how well the individual shooter is able to handle recoil and gun weight.

To my way of thinking, each increase in power level should be accompanied by an increase in rifle weight.

If there is a corresponding increase in rifle weight along with the power level, recoil is tolerable. The big factor after that is the strength and endurance of the hunter to carry such a rifle. Currently I'm large enough, strong enough and stupid enough to carry a 13+ pound rifle. In the future that equation will probably change.
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Good point my rather large beefy friend!

All the .458 caliber (bore size, not cartridge!) rifles with scopes weigh between 10.25 and 10.5 pounds.

I confess, my shooting stance developed from 50+ years of target shooting is for accuracy. It is NOT the best for absorbing recoil.

My friend @Altitude sickness leans into the rifle and absorbs or dissipates recoil very well.
@Altitude sickness shot his .505 Gibbs like the rifle was made for him. Me? I shot that artillery piece twice and let's just say I did not enjoy it!

Here are YouTube videos showing shooting stances,
Me presenting a consistent opposition to recoil shooting a former love of mine, a 500-416 Krieghoff,

@Imac45acp shooting the same 500-416,

Me, @Altitude sickness , @Imac45acp and Brian of Montana Rifle Co shooting a Pre-Production .375 H&H TSAVO with a brake. Notice the different shooting stances? That's @Altitude sickness we see in the still frame of this video,
 
Let me add to Mark’s humble statement.

His ability to fire, cycle the bolt on recoil and as the muzzle comes down he is acquiring the target, aiming and firing again. Fast and accurate.

He would be very competitive in a big bore shoot that requires 3-4 shots for speed and accuracy
 
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