Gun control???

Well, isn't this interesting....

I knew that the overall homicide rate in the States is down over the last several decades, a fact the anti gunners want to ignore as it doesn't fit their crisis narrative.

What I didn't know is that school shootings are also down since the 90s. Seems that is another well hidden fact that doesn't fit the gun control narrative.

https://mises.org/wire/there-are-fewer-school-shootings-now-during-1990s

More interesting information, showing why it might just be a bad idea to take the one size fits all approach.

https://mises.org/wire/theres-no-such-thing-american-homicide-rate

All interesting statistics. I wonder how other factors enter in, like economics, boom/bust cycles, etc. Every episode today is greatly magnified by our instant media barrage, facebook, twitter, that we didn't have 20 or 30 years ago. Just today saw where a former police officer with some mental issues had his guns removed but ran his car into the business where his family was, killing 2. I would really like to see our media NOT publish the name and identity. I wonder if that would stop any of these senseless crimes.

K-man said:

All interesting statistics. I wonder how other factors enter in, like economics, boom/bust cycles, etc. Every episode today is greatly magnified by our instant media barrage, facebook, twitter, that we didn't have 20 or 30 years ago. Just today saw where a former police officer with some mental issues had his guns removed but ran his car into the business where his family was, killing 2. I would really like to see our media NOT publish the name and identity. I wonder if that would stop any of these senseless crimes.

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You make a valid point on the media. When it comes to school and public shootings the media sensationalizes them which makes the nut jobs try and one up each other. One thing that’s fairly universal is the talk of “the record” amongst these wack jobs, meaning the death toll.
The media intentionally or not makes these worse by giving these people relevance, at least in their twisted minds.

K-man said:

Every episode today is greatly magnified by our instant media barrage,

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This!
We are much more aware, which in and of itself is not a bad thing. When the information creates panic, or a total lack of caring, you then have a problem....

It's kinda like the earlier conversation about how much better the Canada murder rate is, until you feel it back and realize that there is a 99.99% chance that you won't be murdered in BOTH countries.

K-man said:

I would really like to see our media NOT publish the name and identity. I wonder if that would stop any of these senseless crimes.

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I think it would very likely save lives, but the media is about viewership and making a profit, not about saving lives, so it won't happen.

gizmo said:

You make a valid point on the media. When it comes to school and public shootings the media sensationalizes them which makes the nut jobs try and one up each other. One thing that’s fairly universal is the talk of “the record” amongst these wack jobs, meaning the death toll.
The media intentionally or not makes these worse by giving these people relevance, at least in their twisted minds.

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I agree with this. It goes hand in hand with the saying any publicity is good publicity. I think what compounds this problem is the fact that a lot of people who commit these mass shootings are suicidal or their life has lost value to them. A number of them died from self inflicted wounds. I assume that by committing these acts they view it as a way to go out with a bang. And gain notoriety or infamy. Whereas if they just committed suicide nobody would even know about them- they would just become a single statistic amoung the tens of thousands in the US or wherever else that die by their own hand.

Another thing is they gain a fan base and some of these wackos when they end up going to prison get shopping bags full of letters from fans. Say that 0.1% of people admire them or in some way relate to their misguided and sick "missions". In the U.S. alone that's like 300K "fans". As twisted as that is a result of the media exposure they probably feel "validated" or "important" as a result.

Royal27 said:

This!
We are much more aware, which in and of itself is not a bad thing. When the information creates panic, or a total lack of caring, you then have a problem....

It's kinda like the earlier conversation about how much better the Canada murder rate is, until you feel it back and realize that there is a 99.99% chance that you won't be murdered in BOTH countries.



I think it would very likely save lives, but the media is about viewership and making a profit, not about saving lives, so it won't happen.

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Not to detract from the topic but the biggest difference I see between Canada and the States in regards to the murder is its distribution. I think the homicide rate for US whites is about 2 per 100,000, pretty similar to Canada's rate and largely in line with that of most "western" countries- who are the most relevant point of comparison to the US. However, the homicide rate for black people in the US stands at something like 15 per 100,000- a rate far above the average of any western country and more in line with that found in South and Central America. And the vast majority of it is black on black murder motivated by gang feuds. This goes hand in hand with the level of violence in certain US cities and in the inner cities as well. Obviously Canadian cities have a problem with crime too but not anywhere near this level. Sure its absolutely true that you aren't likely to get murdered in either place but it does speak to a substantial difference...

Dragan N. said:

Not to detract from the topic but the biggest difference I see between Canada and the States in regards to the murder is its distribution. I think the homicide rate for US whites is about 2 per 100,000, pretty similar to Canada's rate and largely in line with that of most "western" countries- who are the most relevant point of comparison to the US. However, the homicide rate for black people in the US stands at something like 15 per 100,000- a rate far above the average of any western country and more in line with that found in South and Central America. And the vast majority of it is black on black murder motivated by gang feuds. This goes hand in hand with the level of violence in certain US cities and in the inner cities as well. Obviously Canadian cities have a problem with crime too but not anywhere near this level. Sure its absolutely true that you aren't likely to get murdered in either place but it does speak to a substantial difference...

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Agree, which is why I've said you can't have a "one size fits all approach."

Royal27 said:

More interesting information, showing why it might just be a bad idea to take the one size fits all approach.

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Royal27 said:

Agree, which is why I've said you can't have a "one size fits all approach."

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Royal27 said:

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Thank you for posting that graph! I just wanted to highlight that its not primarily an issue of geographic distribution but much more so of "racial distribution". This certainly also explains why blacks tend to be in favor of gun control and associate them with murder and violence while whites are much less inclined to do so. As murder among white Americans is wholly in line with the rest of the west, despite the much higher rates of gun ownership and looser gun laws. I do apologize if this is a controversial topic to bring up but it is one that is supported by a decent amount of evidence...

The comparison between New Brunswick, New Hampshire and Maine, which your article covers is a really important one in my opinion. There is a high amount of cultural similarity between the three- they're in my opinion culturally closer to each other than they are to many parts of their own respective countries. Yet New Brunswick has very strict gun laws compared to Maine and New Hampshire, despite this fact all 3 have nearly identical homicide rates.

gizmo said:

Very very well said and you are exactly right.
When I was in 5 grade I took my old Le Fever Nitro side by side to school to do the same thing as Dale did. The principal asked me when I was walking down the hall with it if I wanted to do a demonstration and shoot it for everyone. I told him no that I didn’t bring any ammo and that I’d also have to clean it again. In 8th, 10th, and 11th I took several of my Civil War era gun’s to school along with a ton of other stuff for a living history demonstrations that I was asked to do.
Ya know in all cases no one freaked out and there wasn’t an issue. We used to have guns in our vehicles pretty much everyday during hunting seasons so we could hunt after school.
Now our kids have safe places where they can go cry over election results ( wtf is up with that, I remember the news reporting on that crap) the pledge of allegiance isn’t said in schools anymore, and a lot of our teachers are nothing more than socialist indoctrinators brain washing our youth.

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Gizmo,

Way back in the dark ages of the 50s when I was growing up we all carried guns-rifles, shotguns depending on the hunting season. We carried them on the school bus and leaned them against the classroom wall til after school. In fact, the bus driver would stop the bus so we could shoot a bird or deer on the way home. Just normal in the good old days.

From the outside looking in USA doesn't have a gun problem as much as a culture problem. Too many people that feel justified in killing someone because they feel wronged in some way.

People use Australia as a model for gun control, which is a deception tactic. Yes our gun crime has fallen since banning semi autos but they don't mention it was falling prior to that anyway.

No one mentions NZ, you can own a semi auto there yet they don't have people shooting up schools or killing someone for sacking them from a job or what have you.

I feel for the vast majority who like the vast majority in Australia are decent human beings and get caught up in the middle.

Plato said it nearly 2,500 years ago "good men don't need laws to make them do the right thing, bad men will find away around them"

Royal27 said:

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Damn straight!

After reading this thread I have a few thoughts. Have the wimps who post the gun free zone signs ever thought that they are advertising for the sickos to "Come get us. We're defenseless"? Could it be construed that they are accomplices/accessories to murder by posting these signs(invitations)? If so they are as guilty as whoever pulls the trigger. Kind of a contradiction to what they rant about keeping kids safe.

Newboomer said:

.........Have the wimps who post the gun free zone signs ever thought that they are advertising for the sickos to "Come get us. We're defenseless"?.......

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IRONY

These are the signs posted on the door as you enter the Springfield Armory?!?!?!

Wheels said:

IRONY

These are the signs posted on the door as you enter the Springfield Armory?!?!?!

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No coffee???

I will never go into Springfield Armory now! That's crossing the line....

Wow!! A gun store that doesn't allow guns?? Now that is a real contradiction and to think I USED to like Springfield guns. That just changed my mind.

ill always think gun control means,sight picture,breath control,trigger squeeze.oh well.

ArmyGrunt said:

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Wow....

All these years and I never realized that Winnie the Pooh carried a Ruger loaded with Hornady ammo!

You learn something new every day....