My thoughts on recoil

I often see people talking about recoil and if bigger guns are worth recoil. So, i decided to start a thread to share my thoughts on the subject.

First, most modern guns are way too light for their cartridge! Modern guns trade weight for recoil. This often leads to less practice, which in turn leads to poor shooting. Instead of "how much recoil can I handle?", The real question should be "how much weight can I carry?". Anyone can shoot a 577 NE well as long as the gun is of proper weight and they put in the effort to learn how to shoot the gun. A light gun is easier to carry... But no fun to shoot.

Second, too many people treat large bore guns the same way they treat small bore guns. I see it like treating a shotgun similar to a rifle. A 470 NE double is nothing like a bolt action 300 WM! Medium bore guns tend to bridge this gap, explaining why they are so popular. If you know how to shoot a 30-06 then you know how to shoot a 375 H&H or even a 416 RM. But once you start getting into .458"+ bullets weighing 480gr+ moving at 2000fps+, the game starts to change. These are relatively short range tools meant to be fired from a standing or possibly kneeling position. Pin point accuracy isnt as important as being able to shoot a moving target off hand or from sticks. Recoil management becomes just as important of a skill as precision and follow up shots. Shooting these big guns from a bench rest like a small bore rifle will do more damage to your shooting technique then it will help! I wont even sight a scope in on a bench with a large bore gun.

Third, your personal weight has little to nothing to do with your ability to shoot large bore guns. A small guy will be able to deal with the recoil at least as good (if not better) than a big guy. If anything being big is a problem because it will be harder the get the stock firmly against your shoulder bone. The only problem ive seen is with people who dont have much upper body strength. It can be difficult to pull a heavy gun into your shoulder without support (aka shooting sticks).

Recoil management is a skill that anyone can learn. Assuming your gun is properly made (most modern guns aren't) then with a bit of practice you can easily fire some if the largest guns in the world with relative ease. Example: last year I had a friend come visit from out of town. He had no experience with guns bigger than his 300 wm. By the end of our first shooting session I had him reliably hitting an 10" gong at around 35 yards with full house 8-bore hunting loads! Those loads were pushing a 1200gr bullet at over 1300fps. Now at that range, it was no proof of marksmanship, but it was proof he had learned to deal with the guns recoil! He had the courage and the drive to learn to shoot that gun. You can do it as well!

My basic strategy:

1. Hold on firmly with both hands. You don't need to white knuckle it, but you should act like someone is going to take it from you.

2. Pull the gun tightly into your shoulder. Your bones should be taking the recoil not your flesh. This is a common mistake new shooters make with large rifles.

3. Put your center of gravity over your forward foot. Pretend your trying to push something heavy up a hill.

4. Focus on the front sight and your target, while slowly squeezing the trigger. This is a single step on purpose. Squeezing the trigger is not a step, it is a background action to focusing on the important things. Focusing on the trigger can cause a flinch.

5. Find your front sight and reacquire your target.

6. (Repeat step 4)

7. Begin your reload while attempting to keep your eyes on the target. We all goof this one up... Especially me.

That is enough rambling out of me. Good shooting and good hunting to you all!

There are two types of recoil to address. As you describe a technique for the shooting range. In particular the subject of rifle weight which for a range day application have the rifle as heavy as you want. However, in the bush for 3 weeks to a month on safari then rifle weight matters. And I won’t even address sheep hunting at 14,000 ft where every ounce matters. The second type of recoil is when actually engaged with a game animal; I have never felt the recoil of my rifle nor heard the rifle’s report shooting game. The crucial element to me is fully considered critical eye relief of the scope for any shooting position; uphill, downhill, prone, etc. There are temporary barrel weights that can be added for the range and removed for the field.

There are four contact points on the rifle to
maintain throughout firing sequence:
1) Strong hand grip on stock wrist
2) Weak hand grip on forend
3) Cheek on comb/cheekpiece
4) Buttplate/recoil pad against shoulder

Stay connected at all four contact points as you release the shot and follow completely through holding all contact during recoil.

matt85 said:

2. Pull the gun tightly into your shoulder. Your bones should be taking the recoil not your flesh. This is a common mistake new shooters make with large rifles.

Click to expand...

I place the butt on the shoulder cavity with my arm at a 45 deg angle to the gun. Being Big certainly matters no matter how good a technique you have.

Great information!

I like numbers, so here's a few from the calibers mentioned. For comparative purposes and using identical new Winchester Model 70 Safari Express rifles in .375H&H, .416 Rem Mag, and .458 Win Mag. Baseline rifles are completely stock from the factory and of identical weights, at 9 lbs, with no optics.

Obviously there are many variables to include altitude, powder type and charge, etc. But lets consider this meatball math...

The .375 H&H shooting 300 grain bullets at factory velocities is doing so with approximately 44lbs of free recoil energy. The .416 Rem Mag with 400 grains is at 61lbs of recoil energy. The .458 with 500 grains comes in over 67lbs.

I looked into this when I was considering moving from a .375H&H to a .416RM. This meant about 40% more Recoil energy, and about 19% additional recoil velocity. In hindsight, I definitely noticed the difference, but doesn't feel like 40% more. The step up in recoil energy from .416RM to .458 WM is around 10%, the leap from .375H&H to .458WM is nearly 55% greater recoil. Ultimately went .416 due to component availability, but really like the idea of a .458 Win Mag making its way into my safe one day.

I think everyone has gone in stages of stepping up to recoil. As a kid going from 22 to a center fire was a big step. Going from a deer rifle to 300 mag is a big step. 300 to 375 is a big step. I look at it now and realize anything up to 375 is very manageable recoil. However, I think this discussion of recoil management is ignoring that there is a physical recoil limit. If you shoot a 458 or 500 incorrectly it does have the ability to hurt you. The trigger guard could break your finger, the bolt could injure your wrist, shoulder damage, and more. Squeezing the trigger is mental. But there is a physical limit somewhere above a 375 people need to determine for themselves. My 450 Rigby is hitting with about 90 ft lbs of energy with the hottest loads. It’s easy to say it needs to be heavier, but there also needs to be a practical compromise that you can actually still hunt with it.

Also, I’m not really sure where 375+ has traded weight for recoil in modern guns? It’s the 243-300 category that keeps getting lighter for better or worse. A model 70 from 1937 or 1960 isn’t that much different than a model 70 today.

Matt is quite right..many moderne rifles are top light for calibre..both bolt and doubles

I like Schuler Jimbo’s points. I’ll add a lot of shooters have the butt of the stock in wrong position. (Too high) 1/4 of the stock butt isn’t doing its job.

Due to many factors. Straight stock comb vs European “hog back” style stock.

Low mounted scopes or irons on a straight stock places much of the butt too high on the shoulder. Which of course is fine with a low recoiling firearms.

This pic the LOP is too short adding unnecessary pain

Altitude sickness said:

I like Schuler Jimbo’s points. I’ll add a lot of shooters have the butt of the stock in wrong position. (Too high) 1/4 of the stock butt isn’t doing its job.

Due to many factors. Straight stock comb vs European “hog back” style stock.

Low mounted scopes or irons on a straight stock places much of the butt too high on the shoulder. Which of course is fine with a low recoiling firearms.

This pic the LOP is too short adding unnecessary pain

Click to expand...

My experience of bigger calibres is limited to a couple of shots with a 416 ruger. They were on buffalo so I don’t remember the recoil at all.

Stock design is a big thing depending on how you shoot. I hear a lot of people talk about hogsback stocks kicking more. I find they kick much less. Of my 9.3’s I certainly notice more recoil in my Rigby hs than my Cz 550 lux and I attribute that to the fact that I shoot mostly irons. With a scope I’m fairly certain it’d be the other way around.

Proper length of pull (distance between trigger and butt) can be significant for recoil management. My 404 is a bit short (at least half an inch) and scope can hit me if I don't hold on tight. I'll get around to fixing it one of these days. I got a light kiss first shot in Africa this year. After that as soon as crosshairs were on the animals my mind immediately went to "hold on tight." No problem.

Proper bullet weight for caliber is also an often neglected factor. With modern bullet technology it is possible to use less weight and get the same or better results as old lead core bullets the cartridges were designed for a century ago. Less weight = less recoil (Newton's "Second Law of Motion"). I don't need to be shooting 400 gr mono bullets to kill buffalo but finding anything lighter to load is difficult. 325-350 gr should do the job. At distance they may actually work better. It would be nice if the major manufacturers would make something lighter than 400 gr.

I prefer a low QD scope with optional irons for fast acquisition ... and a stock designed for it.

Crosshairs are in full field of view or irons are aligned the instant the rifle is shouldered. Perhaps the stock design is not as efficient at reducing recoil (which I think may be debatable) but I can adjust myself to accept a bit of extra recoil off the sticks. Hunting for the crosshairs on an incoming angry animal may require less desirable adjustment.

Was at Matrix the other day, he was finishing up a 458 Lott cz action and B&C stock. Has 2 mercury tubes, the rest of the butt cavity filled with epoxied #4 shot and shot in the barrel channel and was still under 10lbs (9lbs, 7oz) Felt solid in the hands and balanced. Scope and 4 rounds should get just shy of 11lbs.

Also, many of us learned to stand in a “Bladed” stance.

I think for heavy recoiling rifles. It’s better to stand more squared to the target.

An exaggerated bladed stance shown below.

Matt85 - I agree 100% with your assessment. Recoil management is a learned skill just like marksmanship. Practice and training to get accustomed to it is critical. Being motivated helps. Prior to my first Safari, I had never fired any hunting rifle larger than a 30-06. Mind you I had fired 30lb Barret rifles in 50BMG but those had huge brakes and really do not compare.

I typically hunted with a 270 back then and I had bought an old vintage super light weigh 308 and was appalled by the tremendous recoil from that rifle. As a result, I had avoided hunting with that lovely little rifle.

I am 6' 2" and built like a football tight end. I am not particularly recoil sensitive. I had simply never had reason to shoot a big magnum. Fast forward and I was prepping to go on safari. I bought a 375HH and dusted off the 308 and learned to shoot them both well. I have also learned how to shoot a 458wm and to me my 375HH feels like 80% of the larger 458. The numbers say the 458 had 50% more recoil. So, honestly it was not a big deal as long as you have developed good technique.

This week, I had the 308 and a Ruger 338rcm at the range. I was shooting them off of a bench at 400y and remember thinking how the recoil from the little 308 felt like nothing now.

Heavy recoil..?
Its like making love to a big woman, just hold on and enjoy the ride

All good things said above. I believe what people are talking about is the stark difference in weights of typical factory guns vs. others (and it IS stark! There are lighter than the Rem 700s w/ typ black plastic stocks.) My favorite is an M70 with Hg reducers in the stock (can easily add 1-2 lbs on a quick-pointing DG rig w/ shorter bbl,) so my custom 416 M70 (fully outfitted/loaded w/ spare rounds on sling loops) is just under 13 lb (and a pleasure to shoot!) M70 and Steyr S/T 375s-also a pleasure to shoot, as-is! (The S/T weighed over 13 lb w/ both 5-shot rotary mags full-a spare in the butt, scope/mounts, sling.) Recoil is something you get accustomed to by shooting, but it can be mitigated in several different ways...Heft is the simplest manner. Ammo choice is another (selecting adequate for the job vs. overkill).

These are unladen gun weights (not loaded, no scopes, slings, etc.) The "dry weight" of rifles:

The weight of a Remington Model 700 chambered in .375 H&H Magnum typically ranges from 7.25 to 8.25 pounds
A Winchester Model 70 Custom Shop rifle in .375 H&H Magnum typically weighs between 9 lbs and 10.5 lbs
the weight of the Steyr-Mannlicher Model S/T (Tropical / Tropen model) in .375 H&H Magnum at approximately 9.02 lbs
A typical double rifle chambered in .470 Nitro Express (.470 NE) weighs between 10 and 11.5 pounds

JG26Irish_2 said:

Matt85 - I agree 100% with your assessment. Recoil management is a learned skill just like marksmanship. Practice and training to get accustomed to it is critical. Being motivated helps. Prior to my first Safari, I had never fired any hunting rifle larger than a 30-06. Mind you I had fired 30lb Barret rifles in 50BMG but those had huge brakes and really do not compare.

I typically hunted with a 270 back then and I had bought an old vintage super light weigh 308 and was appalled by the tremendous recoil from that rifle. As a result, I had avoided hunting with that lovely little rifle.

I am 6' 2" and built like a football tight end. I am not particularly recoil sensitive. I had simply never had reason to shoot a big magnum. Fast forward and I was prepping to go on safari. I bought a 375HH and dusted off the 308 and learned to shoot them both well. I have also learned how to shoot a 458wm and to me my 375HH feels like 80% of the larger 458. The numbers say the 458 had 50% more recoil. So, honestly it was not a big deal as long as you have developed good technique.

This week, I had the 308 and a Ruger 338rcm at the range. I was shooting them off of a bench at 400y and remember thinking how the recoil from the little 308 felt like nothing now.

View attachment 787932

Click to expand...

Is that an old Bausch & Lomb detachable base/rings?

But make no mistake, the recoil from a 577 is in another league (2x that of a 375 HH with some loads!) Gun heft helps. I'll never forget the slow-motion video of Peter Capstick firing at an elephant...the muzzle blast followed by the shockwave of energy through his body (he looked momentarily gelatinous or fluid!) Very similar to Evel Knievel upon smacking the pavement at different times...

The .577 Nitro Express (.577 NE) cartridge produces about 70 to 127.5 foot-pounds (95 to 173 joules) of recoil energy, depending on the weight of the rifle and selected round.

Churchill, in his shotgunning book describes what might be termed a "push-pull" between the shooting hands. The forward hand is pushing forward with a firm grip, itself taking some of the recoil, while the trigger hand is pulling the stock into the shoulder. I think many people are underutilizing their forward hand?

Kevin Robertson covers this very topic well (for most popular guns and cartridges) in Africa's Most Dangerous.