Small and fast or big and slow?

AckleyHunter

AckleyHunter

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Ron Spomer goes to Africa to put small bullets in big animals.

www.ronspomeroutdoors.com

Terminal Performance With Lightweight .284” Bullets in Africa — Ron Spomer Outdoors

The general consensus among hunters is that African game -- everyday antelope species as well as the bigger stuff -- is tougher than North American game and requires heavier, “harder hitting” cartridges and bullets. Think 300 magnums, 338 Win. Mag., 375 H&H Magnum, and larger. By the same
www.ronspomeroutdoors.com www.ronspomeroutdoors.com
 
At the end of the day, good shooting with quality bullets rules everything. The only argument in favor of small calibers for general use is that you may shoot them better because of the more moderate recoil and noise. If the more powerful cartridge has no effect on your shot placement, there’s no advantage to dropping down. All this assumes equivalent trajectory, etc., and that you aren’t deliberately avoiding excessive damage to small game animals like steinbok and the like.
 
The article doesn’t really match your title. It’s about monolithic bullets with 7mm. I think it’s pretty well accepted you can step down in weight with all copper from the standard lead core bullet. 120 gr and 132 gr aren’t that light compared to standard 140 gr lead core bullet.
 
375Fox said:
The article doesn’t really match your title. It’s about monolithic bullets with 7mm. I think it’s pretty well accepted you can step down in weight with all copper from the standard lead core bullet. 120 gr and 132 gr aren’t that light compared to standard 140 gr lead core bullet.
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There are people who believe the 7x57 is only good with 175 gr bullets. Because that is what they did 100+ years ago.

There are also people who say you can't kill an eland with a 7x57 and a 120 gr bullet does not have enough section density.

Others will say, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

So the title was ment to draw debate between the traditional crowd and those who use new bullet tech to be more effective with smaller cartridges.
 
AckleyHunter said:
There are people who believe the 7x57 is only good with 175 gr bullets. Because that is what they did 100+ years ago.

There are also people who say you can't kill an eland with a 7x57 and a 120 gr bullet does not have enough section density.

Others will say, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

So the title was ment to draw debate between the traditional crowd and those who use new bullet tech to be more effective with smaller cartridges.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen the discussion of eland cartridges come up here a lot. Generally, the consensus is they are fairly easy to kill with good shot placement. I don’t think there’s anything to debate. They went on a cull hunt that gives opportunity to pick and choose good shots. They using cartridges and bullets on the lighter side but nothing that hasn’t been done before and still fall in the standard range. If they were tracking a trophy eland bull 10 miles in thick brush I think they’d want a 300 gr 375 H&H. If they were hunting trophy kudu in eastern cape at significant range I think they’d want a 300 win. They just matched the cartridge to the application for the article nothing new. If he was pushing 223 or 243 for the average hunter on a trophy hunt I think there’d be something to debate.
 
375Fox said:
I’ve seen the discussion of eland cartridges come up here a lot. Generally, the consensus is they are fairly easy to kill with good shot placement. I don’t think there’s anything to debate. They went on a cull hunt that gives opportunity to pick and choose good shots. They using cartridges and bullets on the lighter side but nothing that hasn’t been done before and still fall in the standard range. If they were tracking a trophy eland bull 10 miles in thick brush I think they’d want a 300 gr 375 H&H. If they were hunting trophy kudu in eastern cape at significant range I think they’d want a 300 win. They just matched the cartridge to the application for the article nothing new. If he was pushing 223 or 243 for the average hunter on a trophy hunt I think there’d be something to debate.
Click to expand...
What makes trophy animals tougher or harder to kill than cull animals? Spomer makes note that the 375 with a 300 gr bullet was worse at killing than the 7x57 on blue wildebeest.
 
AckleyHunter said:
What makes trophy animals tougher or harder to kill than cull animals? Spomer makes note that the 375 with a 300 gr bullet was worse at killing than the 7x57 on blue wildebeest.
Click to expand...
10 opportunities a day to wait for a perfect shot vs 1 opportunity a week possibly with some brush or slightly quartering or facing you plus a large trophy fee for a wounded animal.
 
375Fox said:
10 opportunities a day to wait for a perfect shot vs 1 opportunity a week possibly with some brush or slightly quartering or facing you plus a large trophy fee for a wounded animal.
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Why would the smaller cartridge just 'wound' an animal on a slightly quartering shot? Those bullets had hide to hide penetration in an elands on all shots.

From the article:

"She put one bullet into the chest of an ancient eland cow quartering slightly away from about 270 yards."
 
AckleyHunter said:
Why would the smaller cartridge just 'wound' an animal on a slightly quartering shot? Those bullets had hide to hide penetration in an elands on all shots.

From the article:

"She put one bullet into the chest of an ancient eland cow quartering slightly away from about 270 yards."
Click to expand...
See a difference between big bulls and cows? Use whatever you’d like.
IMG_0791.jpeg
 
AckleyHunter said:
What makes trophy animals tougher or harder to kill than cull animals? Spomer makes note that the 375 with a 300 gr bullet was worse at killing than the 7x57 on blue wildebeest.
Click to expand...
I believe the point that 375Fox was trying to make is after tracking a trophy eland for miles if you are using a larger caliber and heavier bullet you don't have to be as concerned with shot angle as you might be with a small caliber lighter bullet. If it's quartering hard towards you and you know very well that you may need to penetrate bone on the way to the vitals are you confident the small caliber lighter bullet is going to get the job done. I prefer my 338 Win Mag on all plains game. I know it's going to get the job done. I also prefer lead core bullets with that caliber for maximum wound channel.

I'm not buying the note you mentioned about 375 with 300 grain being worse at killing than the 7x57. Too many missing variables to buy that as a blanket statement.
 
A small or smaller bullet works great. Speed combined with quality bullet is very effective. No monoliths needed.
Copper bull are another matter.
The velocity compensates and exceeds the bull diameter. It is necessary that the bull does not fall apart during penetration through the bones and muscles. I believe we all know that here. It's just physics. It is not a question of whether I or anyone else likes or trusts light or heavy calibers. Heavy bullets have an advantage in dense terrain, where there are branches and leaves. Of course, everything has its limit, so it is well known that lighter bull lose energy earlier, so you can't expect the .223 to pierce an elephant... If you ask me, in most cases I give priority to speed, not to the weight and width of the projectile.
 
Mark458 said:
If it's quartering hard towards you and you know very well that you may need to penetrate bone on the way to the vitals are you confident the small caliber lighter bullet is going to get the job done
Click to expand...
In the podcast version Spomer mentions two points. 1. The 120 barnes went through the humerous on the eland. So the fear of bones and steep angles is really overwrought. Bullets do terrible damage. 2. Spomer points out they had no lost animals on this trip. Attributes it to better shooting, everybody had 7mm rifles.

podcasts.apple.com

We Went to Africa Under-Gunned? (Or Did We?) Eps. 501

Podcast Episode · Ron Spomer Outdoors · July 22 · 56m
podcasts.apple.com podcasts.apple.com

As far as the 375 v 7x57, you will have to take it up with Spomer, it was his experience.
 
AckleyHunter said:
So you are in the big and slow crowd but didn't think title was not relevent to the post.
Click to expand...
I’m for matching the rifle and cartridge to the hunt. I don’t think you’ve ever hunted Africa to understand the different scenarios. Not every shot opportunity is a perfect clear broadside shot from a good rest. A cull hunt provides a lot of flexibility to pick and choose your shots.
 
375Fox said:
I don’t think you’ve ever hunted Africa to understand the different scenarios.
Click to expand...
There should be no difference between a cull hunt and a trophy hunt. All shots should be taken with the expectation it will be a lethal shot. The type of hunt should make no difference. I've done 'trophy' hunts in Africa and elsewhere and cull hunts in the US. Every shot I take is done with the utmost respect for the fact I am killing something. I will not take fleeting, running, or ass shots on animals unless they have already been shot once.
 
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