Small and fast or big and slow?

[375Fox]

I don't know about the .220 Swift, but I don't think there is a hyena that my 243win wouldn't kill reasonably quickly (or instantly).

Just be aware, a hyena is built like a pit bull with more muscle. They are very dense and the females can get big. A 243 would be fine with a good broadside shot, but they don’t always cooperate and you’re not typically shooting them in good light.

 

[Betterinthebush]

And they never stop moving. Almost as bad as a hog

 

[Daryl S]

Watched a video a while back. The hunter put a 350gr. FN cast .510" cast bullet in one side of a sick Eland "herd" bull. The range was perhaps 40yards. The bullet was in the hide on the off side, tight to the leg. The bull went perhaps 50 feet and dropped.
The rifle was an Umarex Hammer, air rifle. The muzzle velocity was under 900fps.
Those rifles are now legal for deer and black bears in B.C. I just happen to have one.
Big and slow kinda did the trick on that eland. Bullet placement is VERY important, as is adequate penetration.

 

[Killingtime]

Watched a video a while back. The hunter put a 350gr. FN cast .510" cast bullet in one side of a sick Eland "herd" bull. The range was perhaps 40yards. The bullet was in the hide on the off side, tight to the leg. The bull went perhaps 50 feet and dropped.
The rifle was an Umarex Hammer, air rifle. The muzzle velocity was under 900fps.
Those rifles are now legal for deer and black bears in B.C. I just happen to have one.
Big and slow kinda did the trick on that eland. Bullet placement is VERY important, as is adequate penetration.

That’s pretty neat. Its similar velocity to some of the original flintlocks

 

[Miletic]

Just be aware, a hyena is built like a pit bull with more muscle. They are very dense and the females can get big. A 243 would be fine with a good broadside shot, but they don’t always cooperate and you’re not typically shooting them in good light.

I guess so. I know they are inconvenient to hunt, but still a good shot is the most important thing

 

[TheRookie]

Look at the sumation of your reply. I am wrong because not most, but all leopard attacks are from wounded animals. You say they must be shot with a 375 legally. So every wounded leopard was shot with a 375. 100%.
And you still want to argue that is the best gun. That is matching the rifle to the animal like 375fox likes to do.

Maybe if we have that law in the US we could get more ML attacks because it appears a 375 is unreliable for one shot kills on a 100-150lb cat.

A larger margin of error is usually preferred by most people when hunting an animal that will hunt you back rather than run up a tree the second its cover is blown…but I support you hunting them with any gun you like. Of course if it moves at the last second and you only wound one and now you are legally required to pursue it in tall cover, what gun you taking? The experts all say you want as much hydrostatic shock as possible, but I heard a guy once killed a bobcat in a tree with a 17 HMR so I bet you could totally do it if you aren’t scared and make a good shot.

 

[mark-hunter]

I don't know about the .220 Swift, but I don't think there is a hyena that my 243win wouldn't kill reasonably quickly (or instantly).

243 was designed for American hunters, to combine varmint hunting with lighter bullet, and white tail hunting with heavier bullet in the same rifle.
One rifle for everything, was the idea, for common Joe.

Therefore, hunting anything above white tail size with 243, is pushing.

Yes, under the premises that every bullet kills, you can probably have a lucky shot with premium bullet at something like oryx.
And it wont make the daily news. It has been done, I am certain

On the other hand, marginal shot on large antelope will most likely lead to tracking and possible loss of animal.

Hunters are generally happy when they get an animal.
But that is nothing, because in that moment, when animal is down, (especially DG animal) you should take a look at trackers faces.
They are all smiles,
That is pure, true happiness.
And there is a reason for this.

Tracking wounded animal, DG or not, adds stress, uncertainty and bad mood to all team, especially if tracking is prolonged for next day.

Dg animal tracking, will ad a level of danger and risk to entire team.

Personally, I dont need that on safari.

Luckily, these days in modern Africa, there are laws about hunting and minimum calibers.

So, even with the best intentions to multipurpose 243 for everything, they will not allow you to hunt just about anything with 243:

For example, for Namibia, here are caliber / energy requirements.

Minimum Caliber and Energy Tiers

Small Game (Springbok, Duiker, Steenbok): Minimum .243 caliber with at least 1,350 Joules of muzzle energy.

Medium/Large Game (Kudu, Gemsbok/Oryx, Eland, Hartebeest, Wildebeest): Minimum .270 caliber (or 7mm) with at least 2,700 Joules of muzzle energy.

Dangerous Game (Elephant, Rhino, Buffalo, Lion): Minimum .375 caliber with at least 5,400 Joules of muzzle energy.

 

[Miletic]

243 was designed for American hunters, to combine varmint hunting with lighter bullet, and white tail hunting with heavier bullet in the same rifle.
One rifle for everything, was the idea, for common Joe.

Therefore, hunting anything above white tail size with 243, is pushing.

Yes, under the premises that every bullet kills, you can probably have a lucky shot with premium bullet at something like oryx.
And it wont make the daily news. It has been done, I am certain

On the other hand, marginal shot on large antelope will most likely lead to tracking and possible loss of animal.

Hunters are generally happy when they get an animal.
But that is nothing, because in that moment, when animal is down, (especially DG animal) you should take a look at trackers faces.
They are all smiles,
That is pure, true happiness.
And there is a reason for this.

Tracking wounded animal, DG or not, adds stress, uncertainty and bad mood to all team, especially if tracking is prolonged for next day.

Dg animal tracking, will ad a level of danger and risk to entire team.

Personally, I dont need that on safari.

Luckily, these days in modern Africa, there are laws about hunting and minimum calibers.

So, even with the best intentions to multipurpose 243 for everything, they will not allow you to hunt just about anything with 243:

For example, for Namibia, here are caliber / energy requirements.

Minimum Caliber and Energy Tiers

Small Game (Springbok, Duiker, Steenbok): Minimum .243 caliber with at least 1,350 Joules of muzzle energy.

Medium/Large Game (Kudu, Gemsbok/Oryx, Eland, Hartebeest, Wildebeest): Minimum .270 caliber (or 7mm) with at least 2,700 Joules of muzzle energy.

Dangerous Game (Elephant, Rhino, Buffalo, Lion): Minimum .375 caliber with at least 5,400 Joules of muzzle energy.

On one occasion, I shot a wild boar of the size (I don't know exactly, but 110-120kg) with .243 win (SST 95gr).
The boar fell immediately after being hit in the chest.
Before that I shot a pig (80-90kg) with 8x68s (CDP 197gr). The hit was in the ribs. The pig ran 200m from the place of shooting
Strength is not always important, you know that very well Mark.
It has happened several times that a cal .300win mag hit a chamois at a distance of 200m and it took the shot away from where it was shot. You know how difficult it is to follow a chamois in the rocks, and most often it falls into a precipice and we cannot reach it.
A chamois hit by a 243 bullet RWS TMS 100gr does not move from its place. Like when thunder strikes her.
Each bullet needs to find the right application

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I would love to see a pic of you catching a crocodile with the 243. I totally agree with the 220 Swift story. At the time when the story that Mark Hunter published takes place, the 220 was exclusively a varminter and with such ammunition it was by no means suitable for hunting large game. It happens that projectiles break up to high speeds, but this is rare. As you just said, you caught a lot of deer with the Ballistic tipuntil you hit this one badly. It happens to all of us. There isn't a single bullet design in the world that hasn't reacted badly when hit

As stated, I would love to try the 243 on croc but would not because I already have better options in hand. Cup & core bullets work great on most game... until they don't. And I agree with you that any bullet can work well in most cases and any bullet can fail in some cases. We are all blessed today to have a plethora of great options. My PH in Africa is a great fan of the Hornady SST bullets. That is a std cup & core design not unlike the Nosler BT's that I loved and used for so long. He said that his clients are equipped with SST's in his loaner 308's and these are used on all PG species up to and including Eland. I have used the SST in deer once recently but it was at close range with a 338rcm and it was devastating. But, I used it only because this is the only factory load available for the 338rcm. Neither BT's or SST's would be my first choice for big game like Moose or Eland. But, if that was all I could find, I think I could make it work with careful placement.

 

[Miletic]

As stated, I would love to try the 243 on croc but would not because I already have better options in hand. Cup & core bullets work great on most game... until they don't. And I agree with you that any bullet can work well in most cases and any bullet can fail in some cases. We are all blessed today to have a plethora of great options. My PH in Africa is a great fan of the Hornady SST bullets. That is a std cup & core design not unlike the Nosler BT's that I loved and used for so long. He said that his clients are equipped with SST's in his loaner 308's and these are used on all PG species up to and including Eland. I have used the SST in deer once recently but it was at close range with a 338rcm and it was devastating. But, I used it only because this is the only factory load available for the 338rcm. Neither BT's or SST's would be my first choice for big game like Moose or Eland. But, if that was all I could find, I think I could make it work with careful placement.

View attachment 785890View attachment 785891

Well, try the 243 anyway. I know it wouldn't disappoint you
As for the SST, I think it's currently one of the most used missiles in the world (or at least it's the best selling one). I am extremely satisfied with SST.
It has super accuracy for the average hunter and works phenomenally at distances up to 300m/yds. With us, it is the ultimate hunting distance. Bonded grains are certainly a better choice for wild game, but believe me, in most cases, SST will do the job perfectly.
I am a reloader and for my friends (who only trust me ) I put only SST (.3006,7mm rem mag,8x57,.300win mag,.308,.243.25-06,8x68s).
I put SST in all of them and the hunters are satisfied. The price-quality ratio is great. The only problem I had was in 8x68s when I maxed out at 960m/s (3150fps). Then the bullet exploded in my roe dear and most of it disintegrated, but it destroyed the body of the animal. In other calibers it is ok. Last season (just at this time) the strongest deer (Red stag 260kg) (228.5 CiC) was caught with this grain and caliber (8x68s 170gr) that I loaded.

 

[curt672]

my 338 with 180 and 210 gr Accu bond worked like a hammer on all the plains game we took . and Btw a Wildebeest is about as tuff as they get --.I would never use those smaller calibers on some of those plain game -- JMO.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

my 338 with 180 and 210 gr Accu bond worked like a hammer on all the plains game we took . and Btw a Wildebeest is about as tuff as they get --.I would never use those smaller calibers on some of those plain game -- JMO.

Wildebeest and Cape Buffalo have been the two species, I have hunted that were the toughest overall. Both required multiple shots with 375HH using 300g TSX bullets and of all the shots only one exited the Wildebeest and none passed thru the Buff. They are simply about as dense as any flesh & bone target can be. I could imagine that Elephant or Rhino might be tougher but neither is a plains game animal. I saw no meaningful difference in any of the antelope species but I have not shot all of them. Zebra might be pretty tough but I have not shot one of them yet either.

 

[curt672]

On the wildebeest I used a 265 gr Nosler out of my 338 -- first shot at 200 had blood pumping out and he was down before could get a second round loaded up , used a 400 gr Tsx out of my 416 for my Buff.

 

[Safari Dave]

I prefer Big & Fast, the best of both worlds.

 

[Gomer]

If we are talking about me, I’m big and slow.

 

[Mark458]

If we are talking about me, I’m big and slow.

I bet you get the job done though

 

[Gomer]

I bet you get the job done though

Only over short distances….

 

[Safari Dave]

I'm medium-sized and slow. Probably couldn't accomplish much of anything, but did manage to "outkick my coverage" in the wife department! (American Football analogy)

 

[Mark458]

I'm medium-sized and slow. Probably couldn't accomplish much of anything, but did manage to "outkick my coverage" in the wife department! (American Football analogy)

Right there with you

 

[Ontario Hunter]

my 338 with 180 and 210 gr Accu bond worked like a hammer on all the plains game we took . and Btw a Wildebeest is about as tuff as they get --.I would never use those smaller calibers on some of those plain game -- JMO.

I have shot a total of three wildebeest so I'm far from being an expert, but all were dropped dead on the spot with 165 gr Partitions out of 30-06. Wait ... no, the second was killed with my PH's 270 WSM at 370 yards. Not sure of bullet weight but I'm assuming it was lighter than 165 gr.