My .500 Jeffery wish list build MEMBERS opinions are welcome

Gert Odendaal said:
Members, here are the components of a .500 Jeffery build:
1X Magnum heavy 24" inch barrel
1x Mauser 98 action ( receiver/bolt/magazine box/bottom metal)
1x American Black Wall Nut blank
Pacmyer recoil pad
V-express rear sight 50 meter , 100 meter and 150m flip up spring tension distance indicators
Buffalo Boss grip cap
Black Ivory forend
Alkenet root oil rifle stock finishing

This is my own component list....please take part in this discussion, WHAT WILL YOU WANT TO DO WITH SUCH A .500 Jeffery build project if it was yours???
Click to expand...
Here's my CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery. Recoil is but a maiden's kiss

eLzNeRG.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:
colorado said:
Here's my CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery. Recoil is but a maiden's kiss

View attachment 778576
Click to expand...
Colorado, it is a beautiful .500 Jeffery rifle for sure. Is it a staggered magazine or in-line system ???
How many rounds in the magazine ? One in the chamber???

Weight ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Check out the 500J recently built by Purdey on a Mauser type action . It is on their website . Coming to its new Aussie owner . Feeds superbly .
 
colorado said:
Here's my CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery. Recoil is but a maiden's kiss

View attachment 778576
Click to expand...
Ah meh, ^ ^ ^ it looks okay.

I'd remove the scope and retrofit the rear bridge internally with a "pop-up" ghost-ring sight. (Wayne @ AHR and, I believe Lon Paul used to offer that mod on CZ 550 Mag actions). Then, with a fiber optic front sight, I'd zero the ghost ring with one load at 60-yards. Done.
 
The rebated rim, as on the 500s (Schuler/Jeff), 11.2X72 and 425WR is a very misunderstood and wrongly maligned design.
The bolt face on these engages the cartridge in the very same way as it would on any 8X57 class cartridge.
Look at the face of a Mauser bolt. Notice that there are radiused contours to guide the rim up from the magazine and under the extractor claw. These contours are on the right and the left to feed from a staggered stack of cartridges. The cartridges from the right do feed right under the claw almost immediately whereas the ones from the left need to rise up a bit more before they are under the claw.

That's why close attention needs to be payed to the work on the left rail as to not open it up too much.
With a rebated rim and a fat case, the action needs to be opened as to bring the cartridge up enough for the bolt face to meet the base of the case and push it forward as it would on an 8mm.
Even on an 8mm, it's not as much interface as one would expect! Just enough for the rim to clear the claw when feeding from the right. Then, the bolt pushes the cartridge forward and it gradually rises up under the claw just before chambering.
This is the same function whether the cartridge has a rebated rim or a rim more similar to the case dia.
The bolt doesn't know the difference - so to speak...

Westley Richards solved this by adding the sprung clips at the back of the action. (I haven't had a GameRanger version in hand to see what they did on those rifles...)
Schuler 500s have a single stack magazine and a sprung clip in the right side of the box.
The 11.2 isn't so big that it required either of these modifications.

I'll try to take photos of all this in the next few days if anyone's interested.
 
Gert Odendaal said:
Rookhawk, good to hear from you. Most of your mentioned points are the same ideas as what I am thinking of.. ( keep in mind this rifle is a working rifle but on a higher quality , the nice things will still be part of the completed rifle )

I am building the ,500 Jeffery myself..I already bought American Black Wall nut blank and already cut it in the duplicator.

The rifle stock will not be a standard Mauser stock at all but a large heavy stocky rifle stock including a rifle stock magazine with 4x rounds .

I am making 1x v-express permanent standing sight sighted in at 75 meters. No need to shoot a .500 Jeffery out to 150 meters at all....it is a dangerous Game charge stopping rifle at close quarters 15 meters .( raking shots on departed dangerous game can still be done with a Ghost ring at the rear of the cocking piece/75 meter v-express sight)

The Mauser MOD 98 is the receiver I am using.

The magazine box and follower will be a magnum size that I am making myself as well.

Still thinking about the bottom metal floor plate ..I have some ideas about what I want to use since the Mauser MOD 98 floor plate is too narrow when I completed the magnum magazine box and follower . I will NOT MAKE USE OF A HINGED floor plate ....the floor plate will be bolted shut....( recoil will dump all rounds under stressed firing)

For sure a Extra large Pacmyer NECG red recoil pad if I can source one in the USA....if not I have seen a great product sold by a company here in South Africa ...still doing some research about this recoil pad.

Black Ivory fore-tip for sure.

Red Alkanet root finishing is part of the plan ..Dave , one of our members send me some Alkanet root ..so I will use it ( Thank you kindly again Dave it is much appreciated)

No Buffalo grip cap...I already sourced a steel grip cap ....

Checkering will be out sourced ..to a good friend of mine to add his German Perfection skills to the rifle stock...

Already a 24" inch heavy magnum barrel ,extended knox of 100mm crown diameter 23mm 11 degrees .
All in all a rifle that will be well balanced and a pleasure to shoot ....
Click to expand...

Great updates @Gert Odendaal . With a Mod98 action, you should be able to find a forged bottom metal for it that is extended enough to handle +3 or +4. I would get a hinged floorplate though, if you ever get debris in the action you can get stuck and trapped. Dropping the rounds from below saves the day. My old PH got stuck in his 458 FN, powder and the bullet dropped out under recoil and he was in a real tricky situation getting stuff unloaded to clean it out.

A good DG floorplate will not bump your finger and it will be an invisible release lever in the top-front of the trigger guard.
 
Huvius said:
The rebated rim, as on the 500s (Schuler/Jeff), 11.2X72 and 425WR is a very misunderstood and wrongly maligned design.
The bolt face on these engages the cartridge in the very same way as it would on any 8X57 class cartridge.
Look at the face of a Mauser bolt. Notice that there are radiused contours to guide the rim up from the magazine and under the extractor claw. These contours are on the right and the left to feed from a staggered stack of cartridges. The cartridges from the right do feed right under the claw almost immediately whereas the ones from the left need to rise up a bit more before they are under the claw.

That's why close attention needs to be payed to the work on the left rail as to not open it up too much.
With a rebated rim and a fat case, the action needs to be opened as to bring the cartridge up enough for the bolt face to meet the base of the case and push it forward as it would on an 8mm.
Even on an 8mm, it's not as much interface as one would expect! Just enough for the rim to clear the claw when feeding from the right. Then, the bolt pushes the cartridge forward and it gradually rises up under the claw just before chambering.
This is the same function whether the cartridge has a rebated rim or a rim more similar to the case dia.
The bolt doesn't know the difference - so to speak...

Westley Richards solved this by adding the sprung clips at the back of the action. (I haven't had a GameRanger version in hand to see what they did on those rifles...)
Schuler 500s have a single stack magazine and a sprung clip in the right side of the box.
The 11.2 isn't so big that it required either of these modifications.

I'll try to take photos of all this in the next few days if anyone's interested.
Click to expand...
 
You don't have to. I actually just recently took another photo of three of my Schüler cartridges side by side.

On the left is the 11.2x72;
in the middle is the .404 Magnum Schüler;
on the right is the 12.7x70.

And yes, the rim of the 11.2x72 is pretty much the same as that of the 8x57 IS or .30-06, whereas the rims of the other two cartridges are significantly larger.
 

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And the 425Westley also has a rim like the 8mm but is something like .008" larger in base diameter than the 11.2 Schuler.

What I really want to illustrate is just how little rim/bolt face overlap you need for a Mauser to reliably feed from the magazine.

Since Mauser ‘98s were designed with a staggered magazine, cartridges feed left/right/left as they come up.

This is one from the left:
IMG_5483.jpeg


This is one from the right:
IMG_5481.jpeg

btw, this is an 8mm

You can see that there is not a big area where the bolt face initially pushes on the cartridge. Then, of course, the cartridge comes up to center on the bolt and slip under the extractor as the rails open up and allow that to happen.
But, cartridges feeding from the left have to traverse all the way across the bolt face to slip under the extractor!
I bet that most (if not all) Mausers that fail to consistently feed have trouble with the cartridges feeding from the left perhaps failing to slide under the extractor and in effect becoming a push feed operation.
That is where the ability of the extractor to clip over a cartridge while chambered is so important especially on a DG rifle.
Wouldn't want to fully cycle the bolt only to have it jam up just as you reach full battery!
 
Last edited:
PCC600 said:
Check out the 500J recently built by Purdey on a Mauser type action . It is on their website . Coming to its new Aussie owner . Feeds superbly .
Click to expand...
Sorry - Purdey sent photos to me . I assumed it was available to all . It is amazing .
 
grand veneur said:
I also cannot find anything special other than clothes and a few shotguns and double rifles.
Click to expand...
Apologies . Purdey sent pictures to me and I saw a video of it operating . I assumed it was available to others . It is the only one they have made .
 
rookhawk said:
Great updates @Gert Odendaal . With a Mod98 action, you should be able to find a forged bottom metal for it that is extended enough to handle +3 or +4. I would get a hinged floorplate though, if you ever get debris in the action you can get stuck and trapped. Dropping the rounds from below saves the day. My old PH got stuck in his 458 FN, powder and the bullet dropped out under recoil and he was in a real tricky situation getting stuff unloaded to clean it out.

A good DG floorplate will not bump your finger and it will be an invisible release lever in the top-front of the trigger guard.
Click to expand...
Rookhawk, for sure, I will do what I did with the bottom metal and hinge plate of the 8x68S rifle. I drill and tapped the original release pin hole and bolted the floor plate shut ..

I still am able to open it but it will not dump the 500 Jeffery rounds anytime soon when heavy firing commence.
 
Jack Stevens said:
Ah meh, ^ ^ ^ it looks okay.

I'd remove the scope and retrofit the rear bridge internally with a "pop-up" ghost-ring sight. (Wayne @ AHR and, I believe Lon Paul used to offer that mod on CZ 550 Mag actions). Then, with a fiber optic front sight, I'd zero the ghost ring with one load at 60-yards. Done.
Click to expand...
Jack I am contemplating going the Ghost ring dove-tailed into the rear of the bolt shroud into the cover of the firing pin . Like I did it on my .375 H&H Magnum rifle I build..
 
Huvius said:
And the 425Westley also has a rim like the 8mm but is something like .008" larger in base diameter than the 11.2 Schuler.

What I really want to illustrate is just how little rim/bolt face overlap you need for a Mauser to reliably feed from the magazine.

Since Mauser ‘98s were designed with a staggered magazine, cartridges feed left/right/left as they come up.

This is one from the left:
View attachment 778754

This is one from the right:
View attachment 778755
btw, this is an 8mm

You can see that there is not a big area where the bolt face initially pushes on the cartridge. Then, of course, the cartridge comes up to center on the bolt and slip under the extractor as the rails open up and allow that to happen.
But, cartridges feeding from the left have to traverse all the way across the bolt face to slip under the extractor!
I bet that most (if not all) Mausers that fail to consistently feed have trouble with the cartridges feeding from the left perhaps failing to slide under the extractor and in effect becoming a push feed operation.
That is where the ability of the extractor to clip over a cartridge while chambered is so important especially on a DG rifle.
Wouldn't want to fully cycle the bolt only to have it jam up just as you reach full battery!
Click to expand...
Exactly , this is why I am opting for the staggered magazine feeding system as Paul Mauser designed it...I have now see myself that making the 500 Jeffery feed reliably you need to get two things right:
1) Magnum follower plate
2) Magnum magazine box wit integral ribs on both sides of the magazine box where the rear part of the round and the shoulder of the round move up/down against it to ensure no drag while feeding the rounds through cycling the bolt ...
 
Question :
Augustus Schuler /DWM company experienced the same challenge according to the history available about 404 Jeffery /.500 Jeffery caliber .
""" The .500 Jeffery was introduced to bring firepower comparable to the .505 Gibbs into a standard-sized 1898 Mauser action as used with the 8x57mm and 7x57mm cartridges. The Gibbs and .416 Rigby cartridges required oversized magnum Mauser actions.""""


Here it is acknowledge that for a .416 Rigby and a 505 Gibbs you have to use a Magnum action....
According to literature the designers of the .500 Jeffery circumvent this challenge of non-access to magnum Mauser actions ( Rigby having the sole access to these magnum actions) by giving a rebate rim and a shorten neck to the .500 Jeffery to fit into a standard Mauser MOD 98 action.
Further lessen the challenge by making use of an "inline" system and not a staggered magazine system.
BUT it seems impossible to find a .500 Jeffery made in the staggered magazine feeding system????
Would like to hear opinions in this regard ...keeping the 404 Jeffery and 500 Jeffery in a Mauser MOD 98 action ....as being indicated in literature about what aught to fit in a standard Mauser MOD action....
 
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