Africa...when will you be priced out??

375Fox said:
The cost of guided hunts and access to local hunting are two very different issues. There shouldn’t be a hunter anywhere in North America now that doesn’t have access to some form of hunting within a two hour drive just for the cost of a state hunting license. For me to hunt 2 deer, Turkey, small game the cost is $27 a year. For a non-resident it’ll be slightly over $100. In this area, permission is still easy to obtain, but there is also no shortage of public land. Access to local sportsman club for a quality shooting range is $40 per year.
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Not everyone is a diy hunter though are they.

I dipped my toe into guiding for a couple of seasons. Assisted another established guide for a few and did some of my own hunts. I reckon half were people that couldn’t or wouldn’t hunt by themselves and guided hunting was their only form of engaging in it.
 
JPbowhunter said:
Not everyone is a diy hunter though are they.

I dipped my toe into guiding for a couple of seasons. Assisted another established guide for a few and did some of my own hunts. I reckon half were people that couldn’t or wouldn’t hunt by themselves and guided hunting was their only form of engaging in it.
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Maybe it exists but I don’t know of any hunters in North America that did a guided hunt as their first hunt. Usually family or friends pull someone into hunting. I wouldn’t even know how to find a guide in this area except for elk or geese.
 
WAB said:
I’ve shifted my focus away from Africa and more toward Europe and North America. Honestly, I’m just not mad enough at the buffalo anymore to justify the expense, and have no idea what I’d do with another buffalo! I have hunts planned in Portugal, Romania, Arizona and North Dakota. I really have never done much guided hunting outside of Africa and Europe. All of my Alaskan hunts have been unguided. North Dakota are unguided bird hunts on friends farms.
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What I have finished with is Taxidermy !!! I will hunt Africa every year until I physically cannot but no more taxidermy bills and hassle waiting two years or more. I’m done!!!
 
As soon as the cost of food and rent and gasoline go down, you have a shot at lower prices...but in my almost 60 years, that hasn't happened and if it did, it didn't last long. Prices are stickier. It is all supply and demand but the supply - concessions available, is also dropping. Add in the government issues and I don't believe we will see a drop regardless the boomers dying out. Too many forces and enough demand...but I do think things will plateau.
 
375Fox said:
Maybe it exists but I don’t know of any hunters in North America that did a guided hunt as their first hunt. Usually family or friends pull someone into hunting. I wouldn’t even know how to find a guide in this area except for elk or geese.
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Depends where you grow up. I can only think of one guy locally that started with a guided hunt.
When I was guiding, lots came from the cities which was a completely different.
 
Rare Breed said:
What I have finished with is Taxidermy !!! I will hunt Africa every year until I physically cannot but no more taxidermy bills and hassle waiting two years or more. I’m done!!!
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I am with you there. I will only consider anything more than a picture on something very special and apply the savings towards more safaris.
 
Ericedwinbates said:
The Hunts themselves can still be in reach, what I hate is the ridiculous airfare, taxidermy shipping, etc. I am also a bit chapped asking around some operators I know that its not common to cut US hunters a break on the cost while expecting big tips? I personally think its unfair to expect American clients to pay the same as European clients knowing full well they dont support the tipping culture as we do.
I feel taken for granted in that and we need to start calling out the hypocrisy and pushing back a bit respectfully. My 2 cents.
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The world looks at America as a piggy bank. I tip and well when appropriate. But here in the states even that is getting out of hand you go to some restaurants and instead of the old 10,15,20 it’s 20,25,30 or even more in south Florida as a standard that they expect or you go to a shop and then to pay for something they hand you they have the tip on the credit card machine.. they know most people psychologically can’t say no.

If the rest of the world doesn’t tip which I have heard is mostly true. Then decide when you go to Africa or Europe if it’s worth it to you. Maybe on a real expensive hunt, tip the staff and talk to the ph about it.
I have friends that are big tippers here in the states for regular services and have done several 100k plus hunts and will tip the staff a few k which is a lot for them but won’t tip the ph and the ph is fine with that. Maybe that’s a conversation you need to have with them.
 
My friend would love to hunt bongo in the forest of Cameroon. My friend has a $100k pickup. He trades her out about every 3-4 years. He hunts deer on state ground and when he gets an invite from someone at their lease.

I would love a new truck. I hunted bongo last year and drive a Toyota Tundra with 350k miles and plan to do so until she quits.

Life is about priorities and sacrifice. And as ol Hank Ford said “the man that says he can and the man who says he can’t are both right…”
 
JPbowhunter said:
This is basically what I have said before, as I saw it happening in Africa and North America it’s the reason I switched off from it. I was just born too damned late to be an average joe and travel the world hunting some of these dream animals.

There is an another thing people don’t seem to consider, increasing prices is a form of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Probably a North American issue more than Africa but if you’re pricing people out they’ll just walk away from hunting. Your hunting numbers are already going down from what I’ve read. What’s the tipping point where you just don’t have enough numbers of people supporting hunting? Apathy comes before anger.
I remember on the meateater podcast a few years back they interviewed an Alaskan guide, Buck someone? He said he was copping flak from other local outfitters for not increasing his prices. He said “why? I’m making good money” “yeah but you’re making us all look bad”’. He then did increase them.

Australia is probably a bit unique, we definitely suffered from that trajectory. As urban populations grew and outpaced rural growth, hunter numbers were down which made hunting a barbaric faux pas. Hunting opportunities have in recent years expended over multiple states which has lead to a boom in hunter numbers. It’s a pretty clear indication that availability and accessibility of hunting opportunities is directly correlated to hunter numbers and therefore support.

Some folks can afford a hunt whatever the price and don’t care beyond that, some I’m sure like the exclusivity of a hunt that’s out of reach of most people. Either way, I don’t think it bodes well for those in the womb of time, as Roosevelt would put. If we genuinely want hunting to continue for future generations we’re going about it the wrong way.

P.s. probably not my most eloquent reply I’m a little distracted, wife is working and I’m trying to organise 4 small kids by myself this morning.

I would edit this to add that there are great hunts to be had. I’m very excited to travel to the states and do a self guided WY elk and mule deer hunt. I’ve also been building antelope points.
NZ offers great diy opportunities.
One of my dreams is to hunt a sheep of some kind, that will cost a bit but a self guided auodad hunt in TX might be how that happens.
I know an Aussie that did a self guided hunt in central Africa a decade or so ago, I don’t believe that’s available anymore. That would have been awesome.
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A mans who runs a big bow hunting site said guides in Alaska figured out instead of 20 clients that you have to find animals and make camp and food for them for 3-4k a hunt he would do 10 hunters ag 10 k or 5 hunters at 20k and it was way less work and you made more money because there are always those that will pay.. he’s right.

In the hunting numbers going down in the America that’s a different issue. The reality is the demographics of America have drastically changed since the 60’s from immigration and most of those people have no connection to hunting. Also the amount of accessible land in compared to the amount of hunters today is way down steve rinellas brother from meateaters said in a podcast that hunting shows(his brother included) are ruining hunting because we don’t have the resources available to sustain More hunters on public. I’d agree that he is right.
My father growing up never once payed to hunt anywhere because you could just help out a farmer or ask them and they’d let you hunt. My cousin hunted many of the same grounds as my dad he’s killed over 20 deer that score 150”-189” while never paying to hunt. That doesn’t exist today for almost anyone unless your family is very well off.

I had incredible hunting in public areas all through the early and mid 2000’s and after Covid some public areas that went for 50-100 people signing in ( most of which never hunted) saw numbers exceed 800 people. That’s insane to me. Out west there are monster tracts of land and if you can physically do it that’s still very viable on the east coast and Midwest leases are ridiculous (supply and demand increase because public is getting worse and worse). It will probably self correct when the game populations deplete to a level where even decent hunters can’t kill a animal but then you will have to wait a few years for it to get good again for those that stuck around.
 
I agree with many of you. I will continue to hunt South Africa until I am physically or financially unable to do so. Why? I have to have something to look forward to, and that is it. I'm not saying that I'm going to try to budget 50K per year to go shoot a springbok. Nothing of the sort. I can budget a flight and a 6 day hunt for 6K. (At least for now!) As long as I can do that, I'll keep going. Some things you just can't put a price on. 20260425_081601.jpg
 
Firebird said:
Some guys will always be able to pay $10k for a whitetail or $200k for an elephant. It keeps the industry healthy so guys like me can be a small part of it. But guys like me also price shop and wait for “a good deal” and sometimes we just can’t be part of it anymore so we hunt what we can still afford-
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True…for example said outfitter has some 5 tags for those Elephant. They are maybe the best 5 tags on Planet Earth. They are certainly let’s say top 50 tags on Planet Earth maybe for a very finite resource.
What are they worth?
They only need FIVE people from….the entire US..The Entire Middle East…,the entire world
Note…there are many hints way less…those are $200k potentially because they are the top of the heap
 
Killingtime said:
A mans who runs a big bow hunting site said guides in Alaska figured out instead of 20 clients that you have to find animals and make camp and food for them for 3-4k a hunt he would do 10 hunters ag 10 k or 5 hunters at 20k and it was way less work and you made more money because there are always those that will pay.. he’s right.
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I always appreciate other perspectives, thank you.

To the point above, what a shame that America, a country borne from the struggle to free itself from the rigidity of class structure is now heading to a place where hunting is again becoming the sport for wealthy and powerful.
 
analog_peninsula said:
Dangerous game hunting has always been the sport of kings. It was only for a short time that it was deemed "affordable" for the upper middle class. That out of the way, ditch the taxidermy and the high end trophies, deal with the discomfort, fly economy, and go hunting. Southern Africa is easily the best deal in hunting today.

The spousal unit wants no more trophies in the house, so I'm doing a cow buffalo + optional cull hunt (giraffe, zebra, impala) this summer. I won't say that it's exactly cheap, but it's a terrific value, and the ultimate costs aren't unbearable. There are also other comparatively inexpensive hunts on offer, like the baboon varmint hunt, and various PG hunts for common species, that are within the means of anyone middle class. If you enjoy the actual hunting, and not just showing off expensive trophies to your friends, the world is still your oyster.
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You just described me perfectly
 
Brent in Az said:
You guys are really hammering on us boomers.
When the industry starts running low on customers, you might see a reduction in pricing.
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Yeah, but we do deserve be singled on a bit. Look at how, we rural and sort of suburdan kids especially, grew up.

We grew up earning money through our own initiatives. Kindergarten was the first grade of learning, not a convenient daycare for parents. We had a much higher degree of parental oversight....it wasn't just our parents, it was eyes of every neighbor, teacher, and friend's parents watching us. When you did something unacceptable generally one's parents knew about before one got home.

Husband and wife if they both worked they most likely didn't have kids at home. When or if they had children they either arranged their work schedules or one would stop working to make sure a parent was always there with the child(ren).

Crime wasn't nearly as rampant nor glorified as it is in MSM as it is today. Criminals were punished back then not coddled like today.

Back then we didn't have fanatics screaming child abuse because a kid wrecked his bike and wasn't wearing a helmet.

Most of all we were awarded a new toy or gadget to entertain ourselves if we acted out inappropriately. We got our asses beat appropriately. We were taught manners and were expected to mind our manners and respect all adults.

We started earning way though life in high school. To be looked on by the last 3 or so generations because our generation cared more about each other and what we earned in life than about being self caring individuals chasing a fast dollar by any means possible and parents', with exceptions being farmers/ranchers, and those having to become a sort of head of household, didn't allow kids to sponge off them living at home past their mid 20's.

Yeah, I'm proud to be a member of the "boomer generation".
 
JPbowhunter said:
To the point above, what a shame that America, a country borne from the struggle to free itself from the rigidity of class structure is now heading to a place where hunting is again becoming the sport for wealthy and powerful.
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You are assuming a lot. There is a huge amount of nearly free hunting available. Guided hunting on premier private land or wilderness areas is a different subject. If you’d like a low cost guided hunt whitetail does, pigs, or ducks and geese are within price range of anyone.
 
No one is beating up on boomers. Numbers are just numbers. There are a lot of you and as a group you earned and saved well.

My generation is tiny. Two years before me was the lowest birth year in the 20th century. My year was second. In some ways I’ll benefit from that. There will be fewer in my cohort competing for resources.

Demographics impact economics it’s just a fact.
 
Russ16 said:
I think a lot about the impact of demographics on economics.

The baby boomer generation is starting to age out of safaris. They’re a massive generation in terms of both numbers and wealth. They also grew up on Hemingway and Ruark etc.

Gen X is a tiny generation in terms of numbers. They are hitting the prime years when the can afford safaris. Their kids are out of the house or nearly so and they’re in peak years for earning and should have achieved a level of savings. But again they are a tiny generation. They also didn’t grow up with as much of the safari culture. Africa was largely a continent of conflict on their formative years. And not as many of them hunt in general.

That’s a long way of saying I wonder if Safari pricing will flatten in the next 15 years. The prices are high because the market accepts it. It’s impossible to predict what will happen but there is certainly a scenario where price growth slows.
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I agree with a lot of what you’re saying about demographics and economics but disagree with your last statement. Safari Pricing will not flatten out in the next 15 years aside from maybe Game Ranch style hunts.

Any wild hunt or area will continue to climb in price, regardless of country. Populations are expanding and land is needed to house/feed them. The number of hunters is shrinking and so is the impact of their dollars. Anti hunting groups have already figured this out and are tendering for areas and concessions. The available hunting land and game numbers is shrinking faster than hunter numbers which is leading to increased demand and pressure.
 
Mtn_Infantry said:
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying about demographics and economics but disagree with your last statement. Safari Pricing will not flatten out in the next 15 years aside from maybe Game Ranch style hunts.

Any wild hunt or area will continue to climb in price, regardless of country. Populations are expanding and land is needed to house/feed them. The number of hunters is shrinking and so is the impact of their dollars. Anti hunting groups have already figured this out and are tendering for areas and concessions. The available hunting land and game numbers is shrinking faster than hunter numbers which is leading to increased demand and pressure.
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Are the anti hunting groups that are winning tenders for these places effectively managing poaching? How do they generate income from places that are unsuitable for photographic safaris etc?
 
It is what it is. Prices reflect demand. It’s as simple as that. If you want it to happen then you just have to make it happen.

I’m a Baby Boomer, I got to see the last few weeks of the 50’s. I’ve spent most of my life in law enforcement. I’m not rich but I’ve never gone hungry. I live in Australia, my income is in the Ozzie dollar, and I pay for my US and African trips with the green back. What a sobering experience that is. But, the biggest thing is that I’m living in the only time in history….ever, that has provided the opportunity for a working class man to travel and hunt the world. Our standard of living is paladin. I grew up in the third largest city in Australia. During my primary school years I grew up in a household, which was like every other household in the suburbs. We didn’t have insect screens, we didn’t have electric fans, the toilet was outside with a weekly shit can collection. The nearest telephone was a pay phone in the next block. Only one house in my street had a phone. Air travel?? I didn’t know any rich people. Fuck…how things have changed.

What I’m trying to say is that things have never been better. Just make it happen. I’m almost 67. I head to Africa for the first time in less than 2 weeks. Elephant with a Rigby. Fingers crossed.

I can’t believe how lucky I am. Fellas, just make it happen.
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