Stock vs recoil:

Looking at a custom bolt gun in 416 Remington with a 13 3/4” stock with 1/2 and 1 1/8 drops. This differs from a factory M-70 being 13 3/4 x 1/2x1/2. Would the additional drop at the butt on the custom gun increase recoil significantly? Thanks for your thoughts. JPA

I have never noticed a huge difference between the various stock shapes. I also prefer stocks with a drop and use one like that for my rifle caliber 460 Weatherby Magnum.

You are more man than me. Never plan on shooting a hand cannon! Hahaha,

I've found that total gun weight is far more important than stock design. Simple physics says weight v power level will determine how much recoil a gun producers. All the stock design does is determine where that recoil goes.

For me, straighter stocks with less drop are more comfortable and have less muzzle rise under recoil.

More drop is important if you want to use iron sights. My days of iron sights are in the rearview mirror and not coming back. So back to the first comment.

Ask if you can shoot the rifle and see how it fits and feels. If it is used, the seller may agree.

More modern designs like the Gunwerks Magnus. And a growing number of other manufacturers have the barrel more in a direct line recoil into the shoulder instead of the barrel being above the stock. And forcing muzzle rise.

A shallow, flat toe line ensures smooth and direct tracking during recoil, helping the rifle move straight back and allowing shooters to keep eyes on the target for follow-up shots

Just as with a semi auto pistol. You want the web of your hand as high and close to the rear of the barrel as possible. To reduce muzzle flip.

It works but no one would want that design in an African style rifle. It’s too modern
looking.

Asked another way. All other factors being equal would the 5/8” additional drop be noticeable? Maybe not. As it was said just try the gun for overall fit. Thanks guys

Pole Pole said:

Looking at a custom bolt gun in 416 Remington with a 13 3/4” stock with 1/2 and 1 1/8 drops. This differs from a factory M-70 being 13 3/4 x 1/2x1/2. Would the additional drop at the butt on the custom gun increase recoil significantly? Thanks for your thoughts. JPA

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Greetings Paul. The curvature of the stock is very important for the recoil of the weapon. It is less noticeable with the usual (small and medium) calibers, but it is significantly expressed with these larger ones. I agree with Tex 416 that a straighter stock is more effective in controlling the weapon, but I also agree with Altitude sick that it may not be the most suitable for African weapons. If you plan to put an optical sight on it, I advise you to try the rifle before buying.

Altitude sickness said:

It works but no one would want that design in an African style rifle. It’s too modern
looking.

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It's gastly!

I have two 505s and there’s 2 lbs difference in weight. The lighter one has a little less recoil shooting the same loads, so for me stocks make a big difference.

Pole Pole said:

Looking at a custom bolt gun in 416 Remington with a 13 3/4” stock with 1/2 and 1 1/8 drops. This differs from a factory M-70 being 13 3/4 x 1/2x1/2. Would the additional drop at the butt on the custom gun increase recoil significantly? Thanks for your thoughts. JPA

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@Pole Pole I would get someone to measure me for my stock and have it made according to YOUR NEEDS.
Stock design has a big influence on felt recoil. I prefer a straight American style stock and a wide but section. This brings recoil back in a straight line and the larger but plate spreads the recoil over a larger area.
My 35 Whelen and the 9.3x62 have very similar recoil. My mates 9.3 with a German hogs back stock beats me senseless ( not that I had much sense to start with) whereas my Whelen with the classic straight stock is an absolute pussy cat in comparison. Even the owner even tho he likes the hogs back found a marked difference in felt recoil.
I once had a little 410 single barrel shotgun that slapped me up the side of the head when I pulled the trigger. This was fixed with a wood rasp.

Get a stock that fits you, it will make a big dit in your shooting and comfort levels.
Bob

skydiver386 said:

I've found that total gun weight is far more important than stock design. Simple physics says weight v power level will determine how much recoil a gun producers. All the stock design does is determine where that recoil goes.

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@skydiver386
I would prefer the recot to come back in a stray line and be spread over an appropriate size recoil pad over an adequate area to having the recoil slapping me up the side of the head everytime I pull the trigger.
Yes stock dest determines where the recoil goes and I want said recoil into my shot not the side of the head.
You say gun weight is more important than stock design, I have to disagree with that. I say this because my mate had a Marlin 44 mag with a straight grip stock and a hard plastic but plate.
I had a 444 Marlin made in an SMLE sanction with a pistol grip stock. The 444 was half a pound heavier than the 44mag. After 3 shots with that I'll fitting stock on that little 44 mag I went back to my 444, even tho the recoil was substantially more it was far more comfortable to shoot. My mate said I was mad until he put a mag full (5shots) thru my 444. He the said the 444 was far more comt than his 44 mag.
So yes stock design and fit make sure make a big difference.
Bob

I dont like ceeek pieces makes rifles kick more to me .I also think good kevelar and good fiberglass stocks kick less than wood .A fat buttstock kicks less too than thin one .

The evolution to straiter stocks not only helps recoil impulse kick strait back and reduce muzzle rise, but puts your head more naturally in line with a scope. Too much drop and you might not be able to have both a good cheek weld and be naturally lined up with the scope without working at it.

If you’re just running irons, the extra drop might actually be nice.

Parkerpusher said:

The evolution to straiter stocks not only helps recoil impulse kick strait back and reduce muzzle rise, but puts your head more naturally in line with a scope. Too much drop and you might not be able to have both a good cheek weld and be naturally lined up with the scope without working at it.

If you’re just running irons, the extra drop might actually be nice.

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Normally, a scope is mounted on a rifle that already has a stock, so that some adjustments can be made, based on the type of the scope mounts used. It is sure, problems can arise when a stock is replaced while a scope is already mounted.

Ultimately, a stock must fit the shooter well, and this can be a straight one or one with a drop, all depending on the anatomy of each shooter.

As a German proverb says, The barrel aims, but the stock hits.

I’ve been dealing with Husqvarna rifles for a few years now. They have a noticeable drop on the comb at the butt end. Ok for iron sights but you have to crane your head up to use a scope and I find that makes the recoil feel a lot worse. Straight combs are much better if you’re using a scope. I prefer Monte Carlo stocks as you get the raised comb for using a scope and a lower recoil pad which I find gives you more contact with the recoil pad. In my opinion the Weatherby Monte Carlo stock is the most comfortable to shoot recoil wise.

Altitude sickness said:

More modern designs like the Gunwerks Magnus. And a growing number of other manufacturers have the barrel more in a direct line recoil into the shoulder instead of the barrel being above the stock. And forcing muzzle rise.

A shallow, flat toe line ensures smooth and direct tracking during recoil, helping the rifle move straight back and allowing shooters to keep eyes on the target for follow-up shots

Just as with a semi auto pistol. You want the web of your hand as high and close to the rear of the barrel as possible. To reduce muzzle flip.

It works but no one would want that design in an African style rifle. It’s too modern
looking.

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Most of the Gunwerks rifle stocks are built for shooting from the prone position. They are most often used for Precision Rifle Shooting (PRS) Competition. This brings up several important points that are always absent from this type of discussion, the build of the individual shooter, and shooting position/body position. In other words, standing, kneeling, sitting, or prone position.


Take these two for example. Not just different height, but different neck length and thus different height from the top of the shoulder to the eye when standing.

If both of our characters were looking straight ahead, what would the measurement be from the shoulders, to the eye sockets? Probably several inches more on the taller individual. My personal height measurement between shoulder height and eye height is a difference of over 7 inches. Take a wooden yardstick and hold it level with the ground at the height of my shoulder and see how far I have to scrunch my shoulders and bend my neck forward to try to get my cheek down on that yardstick. Not comfortable, and certainly not a position I want to be in when a hard kicking rifle is pounding my shoulder.

The shooter with a longer neck will need a comb somewhat higher than the shooter with a shorter neck, otherwise to get a proper cheek weld, the taller/longer neck shooter will have to hunch over the stock.

This is a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about. To get a proper cheek weld, and see through the optics, this shooter is forced to hunch his shoulders and scrunch his neck down like a turtle. The type of rifle doesn't matter, it could be a yardstick as I used in my illustration, and things would be the same. The straight line stock doe not compensate for the height difference between the shooters shoulder and the shooters eye, so the shooter has to adjust to the poor ergonomics of the gun.

Same shooter, different rifle, same problem. The kneeling position leans our shooter forward a little, but notice not only how the shooter is shrugging his shoulders and turtle scrunching his neck, but look at how high the red dot has to be mounted to even begin to be usable for a straight stocked rifle like this.

Same shooter in the prone. The straight comb doesn't present a problem in this position. As a matter of fact, it's almost perfectly suited to this type of shooting, as is the Gunwerks rifle that @Altitude sickness posted above. Look carefully at the height of the shooters shoulders in relation to the shooters eyes, along with the stock comb and optics height.

Yes, the shooter is going to feel more recoil in the prone vs standing. The point is that comb height should not be a matter of fashion, but should vary depending on the physique of the shooter, and possibly the shooting position most likely to be used. Taller shooters with longer necks need a higher comb, especially for shooting in a standing position.
Take a close look at this shooter, who I'm sure most of you are familiar with. Notice the very straight comb of the stock almost in line with the bore. Also notice how high the butt is on his shoulder. actually the top 1/3 isn't even touching his shoulder in the standing position. It's almost as if you could cut a half moon off the top of the butt, sorta like this...

Holy Hellfire, what the heck is that? That's one of them evil rifles from Mexico I think they call a Monte Carlo and it'll kick the crap outta ya! Well actually no. As a matter of fact a person with my physique finds them quite comfortable to shoot, as long as the butt is not excessively far below the bore-line, the length of pull is correct, the butt pad is wide, and the rifle is heavy enough. I don't have to scrunch my shoulders or turtleneck to get a proper cheek weld, which makes the rifle feel like it kicks less than one with a straight comb.

Does it make sense now? Do you see the light?

Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:

@Pole Pole I would get someone to measure me for my stock and have it made according to YOUR NEEDS.
Stock design has a big influence on felt recoil. I prefer a straight American style stock and a wide but section. This brings recoil back in a straight line and the larger but plate spreads the recoil over a larger area.
My 35 Whelen and the 9.3x62 have very similar recoil. My mates 9.3 with a German hogs back stock beats me senseless ( not that I had much sense to start with) whereas my Whelen with the classic straight stock is an absolute pussy cat in comparison. Even the owner even tho he likes the hogs back found a marked difference in felt recoil.
I once had a little 410 single barrel shotgun that slapped me up the side of the head when I pulled the trigger. This was fixed with a wood rasp.

Get a stock that fits you, it will make a big dit in your shooting and comfort levels.
Bob

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Bob, if a .410 slapped you that hard, a 243 Winchester must be bloody murder!

IF you like the gun (like I did-a M70 SS CRF in .458-I had rebarreled to .416 Chatfield-Taylor $400 c. 2015) AND replaced the stock w/ an HS Precision (bedding block/pillars/Hg reducers $500), Timney trigger ($100) and it not only recoils less, all the aforementioned made it more accurate. Get the HS-You will NOT be disappointed! IF the stock is gorgeous, shoot it an find out (but you can always put it back on at the time of any future sale.) I shoot a 13.25-13.375. What size do You require?? Too short and too much drop wouldn't be fun on a big bore. Gun weight, butt surface area (things most mfrs don't consider-LESS felt psi) and then what was covered above re: muzzle rise. An old Steyr .375 had the most unbalanced configuration (bbl high above the stock, drop in the stock, tremendously top-heavy) but it was a pleasure to shoot (accurate, heavy, large butt-'promise I'm not describing women that frequent industrial area jobsites.)

*can obv. adjust the LOP with a different pad and/or spacers (and install Hg reducers). ***forgot to mention-the stock cracked at the pistol grip on that old Steyr, likely due to the forces imparted at more of an angle than ideally straight as described above. The newer 350 gr slugs handloaded exacerbated it too, I'm sure. It was repairable.