Mulling over a bolt gun or a double rifle

[Bandera]

Here lately I seem to have a shift in my Want List.
For the longest while it was a double rifle. A 450-400 NE left handed double rifle.
Now I am thinking a 404 Jeffery Bolt Gun. Yup I have seen 404 listed in the classifieds. That is what started this conundrum.
Both have their merits. Although I can’t really think of any down side to a bolt action other than it is not a Double Rifle.
I am thinking a Chapuis is in my price range for the double rifle.
So it would be a Chapuis vs a Model 70 Winchester
Give me your thoughts.
What would be your choice and why.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Here lately I seem to have a shift in my Want List.
For the longest while it was a double rifle. A 450-400 NE left handed double rifle.
Now I am thinking a 404 Jeffery Bolt Gun. Yup I have seen 404 listed in the classifieds. That is what started this conundrum.
Both have their merits. Although I can’t really think of any down side to a bolt action other than it is not a Double Rifle.
I am thinking a Chapuis is in my price range for the double rifle.
So it would be a Chapuis vs a Model 70 Winchester
Give me your thoughts.
What would be your choice and why.

Here's a thread on this...

Thread 'Dreaming of a Double Rifle...'

Apr 10, 2025

When a hunter wants, no make that dreams hunting dangerous game with a double rifle, the only remedy is to make those dreams come true!

A double rifle is in fact an insurance tool for the hunter. How many of us will ever hunt without a professional hunter backing us up? A PH’s rifle may jam or some other calamity occurs and that is where two separate rifles in one’s hands is insurance to walk away from death.

Is the dream of a double rifle logical? For most hunters, hardly. Let’s face it, a sturdy bolt action magazine rifle is much more practical. Dependable controlled round feed (CRF)...

• Mark A Ouellette
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Double rifles

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[coreydb]

Looks like you're torn between want and need. Pragmatically, the bolt gun will provide a wider range of capability/usage. You can still get the double rifle later.

 

[Bandera]

Here's a thread on this...

Thread 'Dreaming of a Double Rifle...'

Apr 10, 2025

When a hunter wants, no make that dreams hunting dangerous game with a double rifle, the only remedy is to make those dreams come true!

A double rifle is in fact an insurance tool for the hunter. How many of us will ever hunt without a professional hunter backing us up? A PH’s rifle may jam or some other calamity occurs and that is where two separate rifles in one’s hands is insurance to walk away from death.

Is the dream of a double rifle logical? For most hunters, hardly. Let’s face it, a sturdy bolt action magazine rifle is much more practical. Dependable controlled round feed (CRF)...

• Mark A Ouellette
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Double rifles

• 
• 

I had read your excellent post on owning a DR.
The regulation and accuracy is one of the concerns I have with a DR. I tend to fall into the “only accurate rifles are interesting” mind set.
There is a certain allure to hunting dangerous game with a double rifle.

 

[Bandera]

Looks like you're torn between want and need. Pragmatically, the bolt gun will provide a wider range of capability/usage. You can still get the double rifle later.

I all ready have two 375 Rugers, a 450-400 Ruger No.1 and a 458 Ruger No.1. The need may not be there, but the want sure is.

 

[double rifle newbie]

scoped 375 bolt, 450 or 470 nitro express. gun battery for any animal in africa.

just my humble 2 cents

 

[double rifle newbie]

I had read your excellent post on owning a DR.
The regulation and accuracy is one of the concerns I have with a DR. I tend to fall into the “only accurate rifles are interesting” mind set.
There is a certain allure to hunting dangerous game with a double rifle.

think 50 yards and in on DG with a double. it is the fastest follow up shot by far. minute-of-grapefruit accuracy is just fine for a double used in this range and capacity.

i was of the same mindset when beginning to add doubles to my collection. as a handloader i was all into precision and had to get used to how doubles shoot.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

@Bandera

If you were a novice going on your first African Safari… I would hands down recommend that you get a telescopic sighted bolt action rifle. A Winchester Model 70 chambered in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum or .416 Remington Magnum would do nicely.

But I see that you have a couple of African Safaris under your belt already. So now, I’ve got to encourage you to get a double rifle if that’s your preference. As you will already know, ranges are going to be limited to around 50 yards. Ammunition selection must be more stringent due to the regulation factor. But is it worth these little tradeoffs ?

In my opinion, it definitely is. But is ultimately for you to decide.

To conclude: Get yourself a lovely Chapuis boxlock ejector chambered in .450/400 Nitro Express or .470 Nitro Express (depending upon your personal level of recoil tolerance).

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I built my own 404J on a standard action military surplus Czech 98 Mauser. Very portable, nice balance, manageable recoil, short bolt throw, cycles flawlessly, plenty of punch, and looks pretty good. Cost me somewhere around $2700 when all said and done, including scope. But I did most of the work. Can't get a double rifle for that kind of money.

 

[K-man]

You buy a bolt gun with your head. You buy a double with your heart.
The bolt gun is always the logical choice. My personal reason to stay with a bolt is it will cost me a safari or two to purchase a double.

 

[DaddyFlip]

I'm following @Hunter-Habib lead. I joined the site to research a specific stock refinishing project AND because I had a desire for a double rifle - just out of the blue; no other reason except I wanted it and no practical reason because I don't hunt. What I understood from the excellent conversation on this site is even with (what I thought was) a reasonable budget, I had no business diving headfirst into a double. After exhaustive research, I settled (not really, it's what I really wanted in the end) on a new M70 in 416RM. There is one rifle out there on the market still that I'm in love with that is in 'budget' double price range and I would choose it over a double; I'll just say that it's in an elephant caliber, it's a London best, and it's still a bolt gun. I'm rambling - some say if you get the double itch, you won't resolve it until you own one. If you have the means and you can be satisfied with a Chapuis, then do it. I think it was @rookhawk or maybe @Rare Breed who implied a $12-20k bolt gun is a better choice than the same price double. I can't say for the experienced Africa hunter; this is why I invoked @Hunter-Habib who is encouraging you to build on your Africa experience and take the next step. Sorry for the ramble. What matters is that you enjoy your purchase. Good luck!

 

[Red Leg]

I have owned several double rifles and still own six if we count three different Blaser S2 barrels and two stocked actions as three guns. I have taken the S2 to Africa and killed a buff and numerous plains game with it. It works for me, primarily because it has the accuracy attributes of a bolt action. I am truly uninterested in a rifle that has useful accuracy based upon a three-inch two-shot "group" at fifty yards (typical entry level double). The S2 barrels all shoot MOA are better individually and composite four shot groups at 100 yards are never over 2.5 inches. Sight in on the right barrel (front trigger) and I have the utility of the full effective range of the caliber with the second shot only a couple of MOA away. Yes, it is designed to employ a scope with excellent open sights for follow-up. Though, were I headed out tomorrow for a mixed bag of DG and PG, my preferred rifle would be my R8 in .375.

 

[Tanks]

For the longest while it was a double rifle. A 450-400 NE left handed double rifle.

I have a left handed Verney Carron in .450 NE that I can be persuaded to sell if you are serious. Here is the factory target for it.

The regulation and accuracy is one of the concerns I have with a DR. I tend to fall into the “only accurate rifles are interesting” mind set.

Doubles can be very accurate. All of the ones I have used have been.

 

[Fatback]

@Tanks, your VC looks to be a very accurate rifle. How does it compare to the new Rigby? I have recently become intrigued by the idea of owning a double rifle but the practical side of my personality has not let me seriously entertain the idea, yet….

Post like yours and many others here make that harder and harder to do.

Best of luck to @Bandera in whatever you decide. You can’t go wrong either way.

 

[Tanks]

@Tanks, your VC looks to be a very accurate rifle. How does it compare to the new Rigby?

Well, it is about an order of magnitude cheaper.

I haven’t received the Rigby yet and never fired the VC. I had gotten it as a backup to my Heym .500 NE and never needed to use it.

 

[375Ruger416]

It’s pretty simple really IMO:

Can you afford it?

Will you use it enough to derive enough ‘value’ from it? (This is highly subjective and for some things just owning them is enough)

Will you practice with it enough so that it is not a detriment to your effectiveness as a hunter and potentially your and your PH’s safety?

Have you ensured buying it will not cause discord in your family or compromise family financial goals or security?

If yes to all, carry on with a clean conscience. If no to any, tread carefully… Doubles are lovely, but are a luxury and not a necessity. However, if you’ve got the cash and the time and ability to become proficient it could be a great experience. For myself, I find it is often more challenging to do the ‘right thing’ than decide what it is.

Lovely offer on the VC by the way.

 

[analog_peninsula]

On my next buffalo hunt, I’m taking my .500/.416 double, and my .375 bolt gun. When I go after elephant, I’ll take the double and my .458 Lott. For me, it’s all about the conditions on the ground, which are impossible to know with certainty beforehand.

 

[Bandera]

I built my own 404J on a standard action military surplus Czech 98 Mauser. Very portable, nice balance, manageable recoil, short bolt throw, cycles flawlessly, plenty of punch, and looks pretty good. Cost me somewhere around $2700 when all said and done, including scope. But I did most of the work. Can't get a double rifle for that kind of money.
View attachment 746376

Nice rifle.
I have considered going the custom route. One of my 375 Ruger rifles may become a 416 Ruger.

 

[analog_peninsula]

In some ways, the situation is even easier than I made it sound above. My .375 and Lott are the same, being a Mauser M03 with a barrel and optic switch. The benefit is that I only need to practice with two rifles, not three, and since both have de-cocking devices, there are many similarities. The major difference between the two rifles is that my K-gun has two triggers, and the Mauser only one, but I've shot enough s/s shotgun over the years that the switch feels transparent to me.

 

[Bandera]

It’s pretty simple really IMO:

Can you afford it?

Will you use it enough to derive enough ‘value’ from it? (This is highly subjective and for some things just owning them is enough)

Will you practice with it enough so that it is not a detriment to your effectiveness as a hunter and potentially your and your PH’s safety?

Have you ensured buying it will not cause discord in your family or compromise family financial goals or security?

If yes to all, carry on with a clean conscience. If no to any, tread carefully… Doubles are lovely, but are a luxury and not a necessity. However, if you’ve got the cash and the time and ability to become proficient it could be a great experience. For myself, I find it is often more challenging to do the ‘right thing’ than decide what it is.

Lovely offer on the VC by the way.

I am at a stage in my life where I look at the gun safes and think, some these firearms need to go and there needs to be a ________ rifle in my life.

I retired early by some people’s standard at age 55. Then bought a shooting range.
It runs its self so not a huge commitment.
I have facility to practice and then practice more.
I have a wonderful wife who tells me to buy what I want. I truthfully spend more money on her guns. Happy wife shooting, happy life.
My wife knows that my practical side almost always wins out. Almost.

At the SCI show I do have plans to shop for a Double Rifle.