Politics

[WAB]

What’s driving that sort of decision with that kind of frequency? Is quality of life eroded to the point they want to check out because of a lack of healthcare? Or is it a money thing?

I understand someone terminally ill deciding that if they’re going out anyway that they’d rather go out on their terms and on their timeline rather than suffer though a period of pain and discomfort and have family potentially suffering alongside them… I had a friend with terminal cancer make that decision about 7-8 years ago.. I disagree with that position.. he left behind a 17 year old daughter that would have valued every additional day.. but I at least understood his reasoning and rationale..

But I’m having a hard time understanding why I’d want to be put to death just because I’ve gotten old and can no longer live a young man’s life… I watched all four of my grandparents age into their 80’s… my own parents are now just reaching their 80’s… all had/have varying degrees of health… but all pretty much lived/live happily until the time God called them home..

Good question, I don’t know the answer. Canada leads the world in MAID and has the fastest growth rate in the program. 1 in 20 Canadian deaths were due to MAID in 2023. I have a hard time reconciling it to the country I grew up in.

 

[mdwest]

Good question, I don’t know the answer. Canada leads the world in MAID and has the fastest growth rate in the program. 1 in 20 Canadian deaths were due to MAID in 2023. I have a hard time reconciling it to the country I grew up in.

So very strange to me… I googled a couple of articles.. looks like it’s almost all white people (over 70%)… and that Quebec is the province where it happens at the highest rate..

Hard to wrap my head around honestly..

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

News flash…. Homeowner/residential electricity rate increases directly proportional to states/areas with highest number/density of AI data centers. Told you so

Source?

Not disagreeing with you, just interested in seeing the details.

 

[Alistair]

So very strange to me… I googled a couple of articles.. looks like it’s almost all white people (over 70%)… and that Quebec is the province where it happens at the highest rate..

Hard to wrap my head around honestly..

1 in 20 is pretty high.

Guess I'd be interested to see what percentage of 'all cause deaths' are from 'old age, terminal illness, etc'. Maybe 5% of people in that situation isn't that unreasonable a number?

That said, I'm not 100% against MAID on principle.

For example, my mother used to have a much older friend called Olive.

She used to take care of my brother and I when we were kids, she must have been in her 80's back then. She was fit and active, able to drive herself around, enjoyed her crochet club, did stuff with her church. Husband had passed, but she was happy.

I used to drop in on her when I returned from uni, and the decline was heartbreaking.

First, her vision started to go. Cataracts. She couldn't drive anymore, so became wholly reliant on friends and family to get her around, to do the groceries, to leave the house at all. People visited when they could, but I got the impression she was pretty lonely after that.

Then the physical capabilities started to fade. She tripped on the stairs, broke her hip and wrist. It became increasingly obvious she couldn't live alone anymore. She was persuaded (eventually) to sell the family house and move into a care home, but she clearly did not want to. She'd lived in that house for 60+ years when she eventually caved.

Then the memory started going. Dementia. I went to go visit her in the home, she didn't remember me. I'd spent countless days at her place all through childhood, and she remembered nothing. Not sure if that hurt her or me more to be honest.

Eventually she passed, 103 years old. I think it was a relief for her at that point, stuck in a care home with a load of people she couldn't remember, unable to do much of anything, not even able to get out of an armchair without assistance.

Obviously it's not something you ask, but given the opportunity, I think she'd have considered the MAID option when she was forced to sell the house. Pass with some dignity left. I'd feel the same, honestly. If not then, a few years after for sure. She clearly wasn't happy in the care home and was basically just existing, waiting to die. Not a life I'd want to live.

A difficult dilemma, but I must admit that experience made me see the potential utility, although a difficult one to manage for all parties involved.

 

[Hunt anything]

It was surreal to say the least. A distant relative of my wife’s elected this last year. They had a goodbye party with immediate family, and then she went in to be killed.

Thats kinda spooky!
This is from a guy that watched his father fade away last week. Not sure what we would’ve done in that last week when we knew death was imminent.

 

[Aaron N]

What’s driving that sort of decision with that kind of frequency? Is quality of life eroded to the point they want to check out because of a lack of healthcare? Or is it a money thing?

I understand someone terminally ill deciding that if they’re going out anyway that they’d rather go out on their terms and on their timeline rather than suffer though a period of pain and discomfort and have family potentially suffering alongside them… I had a friend with terminal cancer make that decision about 7-8 years ago.. I disagree with that position.. he left behind a 17 year old daughter that would have valued every additional day.. but I at least understood his reasoning and rationale..

But I’m having a hard time understanding why I’d want to be put to death just because I’ve gotten old and can no longer live a young man’s life… I watched all four of my grandparents age into their 80’s… my own parents are now just reaching their 80’s… all had/have varying degrees of health… but all pretty much lived/live happily until the time God called them home..

It’s none of the above. It’s about being able to die with dignity as opposed to rotting in your bed for your final days/weeks/months. I had an uncle earlier this year get diagnosed with lung cancer and faded quickly. He chose MAID and had the ability to properly say good bye to all of his family, dress in the same denim shirt he wore every day of his adult life, and pass in his bed. I’ve also watched someone pass from ALS, his body failing all around him while his mind was sharp as a tack. This was pre-MAID and it was not pretty. I get that this is a moral hot topic, but guess what, you don’t have to use it if you don’t agree with it. But that doesn’t mean that you should remove the right from those who do. I sure as hell would like to spare my and my family’s dignity by not making them wipe my ass as I become a vegetable.

 

[Brent in Az]

Suicide is an abomination. Life is for God to give or take, and not the Dr. Kevorkian's of the world.

 

[Aaron N]

Suicide is an abomination. Life is for God to give or take, and not the Dr. Kevorkian's of the world.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. There are a lot more pressing issues for us to deal with morality wise than how a terminally ill person wants to die.

 

[Brent in Az]

Told you those American tax dollars were going into corrupt pockets

 

[Pheroze]

I get back to Canada pretty regularly. For hunting and fishing it is hard to beat. However, I’ve gotten way too used to the freedoms in the US to ever consider moving back. Too many of my toys are not allowed North of the 49th!

I am concerned that as a country, Canada has lost its moral compass. When we were home last month an elderly family friend was really depressed because three of his friends had chosen MAID the prior month (medical assistance in dying). There are actually counselors in his assisted living facility helping people make this decision!

It’s none of the above. It’s about being able to die with dignity as opposed to rotting in your bed for your final days/weeks/months. I had an uncle earlier this year get diagnosed with lung cancer and faded quickly. He chose MAID and had the ability to properly say good bye to all of his family, dress in the same denim shirt he wore every day of his adult life, and pass in his bed. I’ve also watched someone pass from ALS, his body failing all around him while his mind was sharp as a tack. This was pre-MAID and it was not pretty. I get that this is a moral hot topic, but guess what, you don’t have to use it if you don’t agree with it. But that doesn’t mean that you should remove the right from those who do. I sure as hell would like to spare my and my family’s dignity by not making them wipe my ass as I become a vegetable.

It has become a thing of questionable morality. Several recent report have highlighted how people choose death because of their socioeconomic status:

MAiD and marginalized people: Coroner’s reports shed light on assisted death in Ontario

MAiD needs safeguards for the vulnerable: Ontario coroner’s reports show more marginalized people receiving Track 2 MAiD, which provides assisted death for those with disability but who are not dying.

theconversation.com

The UN has criticized Canada for it. I personally think it’s a slippery slope for a Country that leans towards centralized government and social programs. Death is a lot cheaper than quality palliative care or social supports of any kind.

On the plus side, people are paying attention to this moral issue and I think the brakes are being pumped. Canada has suffered from poor governance at all levels and I do think this is a symptom of bad policy development rather than some Machiavellian design. I was at a conference about it and asked a question in which I used the term “killed” and the medical panel didn’t like that. I argued it is the act just as with capital punishment in that the state has decreed when it is ok to kill someone. They didn’t like that either. But I stick to that. We as a society have defined when we can kill someone. The same people who support MAID could be oppose to capital punishment and vice versa. But it is really on how you justify your belief in killing people for a reason one chooses to accept as logical or justified. I personally think both are a failure of larger policy/societal issues but that’s my personal belief. I think if we can’t accept what we are actually doing then there is something wrong with the act, isn’t there?

 

[Brent in Az]

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. There are a lot more pressing issues for us to deal with morality wise than how a terminally ill person wants to die.

Morality is not measured in degrees.

 

[Aaron N]

Morality is not measured in degrees.

It is yes, it is a fluctuating and evolving thing that varies from person to person.

 

[WAB]

It has become a thing of questionable morality. Several recent report have highlighted how people choose death because of their socioeconomic status:

MAiD and marginalized people: Coroner’s reports shed light on assisted death in Ontario

MAiD needs safeguards for the vulnerable: Ontario coroner’s reports show more marginalized people receiving Track 2 MAiD, which provides assisted death for those with disability but who are not dying.

theconversation.com

The UN has criticized Canada for it. I personally think it’s a slippery slope for a Country that leans towards centralized government and social programs. Death is a lot cheaper than quality palliative care or social supports of any kind.

On the plus side, people are paying attention to this moral issue and I think the brakes are being pumped. Canada has suffered from poor governance at all levels and I do think this is a symptom of bad policy development rather than some Machiavellian design. I was at a conference about it and asked a question in which I used the term “killed” and the medical panel didn’t like that. I argued it is the act just as with capital punishment in that the state has decreed when it is ok to kill someone. They didn’t like that either. But I stick to that. We as a society have defined when we can kill someone. The same people who support MAID could be oppose to capital punishment and vice versa. But it is really on how you justify your belief in killing people for a reason one chooses to accept as logical or justified. I personally think both are a failure of larger policy/societal issues but that’s my personal belief. I think if we can’t accept what we are actually doing then there is something wrong with the act, isn’t there?

That report is terrifying. It is hard to believe that it has gone this far.

 

[mdwest]

It’s none of the above. It’s about being able to die with dignity as opposed to rotting in your bed for your final days/weeks/months. I had an uncle earlier this year get diagnosed with lung cancer and faded quickly. He chose MAID and had the ability to properly say good bye to all of his family, dress in the same denim shirt he wore every day of his adult life, and pass in his bed. I’ve also watched someone pass from ALS, his body failing all around him while his mind was sharp as a tack. This was pre-MAID and it was not pretty. I get that this is a moral hot topic, but guess what, you don’t have to use it if you don’t agree with it. But that doesn’t mean that you should remove the right from those who do. I sure as hell would like to spare my and my family’s dignity by not making them wipe my ass as I become a vegetable.

I can see where people would make a moral issue of it… but I don’t really see it that way… people choose suicide every day for the same reason… this would make it less messy and easier for family and friends to accept I would think…

I’m just having a hard time getting 1:20 / 5% wrapped around my brain… that is a substantial number people choosing to check out this way.. that’s not an insignificant number… by comparison MAID in Australia is 0.6%.. that just over 1/10th the Canada number..

 

[Aaron N]

I can see where people would make a moral issue of it… but I don’t really see it that way… people choose suicide every day for the same reason… this would make it less messy and easier for family and friends to accept I would think…

I’m just having a hard time getting 1:20 / 5% wrapped around my brain… that is a substantial number people choosing to check out this way.. that’s not an insignificant number… by comparison MAID in Australia is 0.6%.. that just over 1/10th the Canada number..

I blame the cold?

 

[mdwest]

I blame the cold?

But… they have Drop Bears!

 

[Aaron N]

But… they have Drop Bears!

View attachment 726857

What don’t they have down unda?! Christ even the cuddly things will kill you

 

[Brent in Az]

It is yes, it is a fluctuating and evolving thing that varies from person to person.

LOL...right or wrong is absolute. It does not "evolve".....unless you are a liberal who makes up rules as you go.

 

[Aaron N]

LOL...right or wrong is absolute. It does not "evolve".....unless you are a liberal who makes up rules as you go.

And what’s your guide that you follow word for word down to the tiniest detail on your daily routine of righteousness?

Emphasis on the word for word part, because you did say it’s absolute

 

[Russ16]

LOL...right or wrong is absolute. It does not "evolve".....unless you are a liberal who makes up rules as you go.

But it does have context. There are religions that believe eating shellfish is wrong or eating meat. They are correct given their context. Most people don’t give it a second thought because it doesn’t impact them in any way. You believe suicide is always wrong based on your context. Not everyone shares that.

Given that suicide doesn’t harm you that context should be afforded a degree of respect. It gets complicated when one persons brief system causes a risk that harm or negatively impact another person.