Politics

[Frostbite]

I hear what youre saying about BORTAC being used to seize Elian Gonzales.. However that was a very different situation/case.. a Cuban father wanted his son back, and the US Citizen Great Uncle wouldnt give him back.. The mother had essentially abducted him (the father had primary custody) and fled Cuba for the US.. Ultimately the US courts denied Gonzales and his mothers petition for asylum and he was ordered back to Cuba.. The courts and US Marshals service attempted to get the family to release the child to the point of negotiating with them for a couple of days, and the family refused...

Having law enforcement take the child back was really the only option left in the Gonzalez case.. the courts made a decision (albeit a very unpopular one).. the choice to use a tactical team from the border patrol was likely a bad one.. but at the same time Im not so sure that had a pair of US Marshals showed up in sports coats and slacks and demanded that Gonzalez be turned over, that it wouldnt have ended with a barricaded felon situation and a requirement for a "hostage rescue" operation to follow.. ultimately a tactical team of some sort was very likely going to get involved.. the only real question was whose team (BORTAC? USMS SLED? FBI HRT?) and when..

Im no fan of Janet Reno or pretty much anyone that was part of the Clinton administration.. but in this particular case, Im not sure what the better play or better decision would have been or could have been..

FWIW Elian Gonzalez has been incredibly successful in life.. he is an industrial engineer that married his high school sweetheart.. he is also a very rigid communist, a Castro loyalist, and is an elected member of the Cuban parliament.. He also very much blames the US for his mothers decision to abduct him and take him to the US.. he believes that US embargos and sanctions created an economy in Cuba that left her (and other Cubans) in despair, and that the US essentially sells the Cuban people a false bill of goods claiming their life would be better without Communism, then the truth is their life would be better without the US involving itself in Cuban politics..

Thanks for that complex and accurate response.

I had no idea what happened to Elian.

I agree that the recovery of Elian bears no comparison to the current bizarre and chaotic storm trooper behavior of ICE.

The root of the problem is that Trump has set quotas for arrests too high and the boys are just trying to meet quotas any way they can.

The photo, though, is strikingly well done.

I admire the guy's trigger discipline and just noticed for the first time that the weapon must be a 9mm.

Any of our army guys able to identify it?

 

[Frostbite]

"News" media report events as they WANT them to be. Since some media promotes the Left ideology and some promote the Right ideology. People have choices: A person can get their opinions from the Left or the Right OR they can pick&choose a combination of both. For example- Much video has been shown of violence in Portland, OR. this is presented by Right media. The Left media then shows peaceful settings in Portland, claiming the Right's media is false. the "truth" is both claims are correct- in the vicinity of the ICE facility it is nothing short of an insurrection. but 2 km down stream on the Willamette River and you find people playing frisbe on the waterfront. People want to believe the media that supports their political viewpoint.

Yes, we are flooded with lies and distortions and rarely get news that is totally without at least a little propagandizing.

I'm not as annoyed by it as some people.

As an old Bible student I'm used to separating wheat from chaff.

Although with the recent surge in AI.......the tricks are more sophisticated.

 

[Frostbite]

Oh you are wrong there. Americans did vote to to have illegal aliens removed from this country.

Oh, I'm not wrong at all.

As with most Americans I am totally in agreement with removing illegal aliens.

BUT.........what you fail to note is this--what America DID NOT vote for is the current chaotic mass arrests where innocents (even children) are swept up and arrested (sometimes violently) along with the illegals.

And the optics of heavily armed cops with masks breaking down doors in the night brings back memories of storm troopers and tyranny.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Good overview of the No Kings clown show.

I saw another good description of the protesters and their frivolous revolution cosplay. “They’re not oppressed, they’re bored.”

 

[rookhawk]

Well, not so easy, in fact.

The Jews left for 1800 years in the Diaspora.

They have no legal claim and "Israel" is technically only the name of a Tribe.......not a country.

To place a legal stamp on this:

The UN has recognized that the Palestinian people have a valid claim to their land, affirming their right to self-determination, national independence, and sovereignty in Palestine. This recognition has been expressed through numerous General Assembly resolutions, which have also acknowledged the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

That might be your talking point and its certainly a leftist talking point as well, but it is not remotely true.

Lets ignore the made up word Palestine and get real specific on the peoples we are talking about.

1.) Israelis of Christian and Muslim Descent. These folks can either be "Palestinian" (whatever the hell that means) or they are Hashemites. In either case, they aren't terrorists, they have a country, they have seats on the Knesset, and they serve in the IDF. They aren't wining and complaining, nor are they murdering innocents.

2.) Gaza - A unique, hellhole of a place run by Hamas that has a leadership so untrustworthy, their ethnic neighbors in the Sinai (Egyptians) won't open their borders to them. They were given self government in 2004 when the Israelis withdrew and all they did was dig tunnels and make weapons to kill Jews.

3.) Jordan - A Hashemite kingdom chock full of "Palestinians" The King of Jordan allowed them to enter his land and their "thank you" was immediately trying to murder the royal family and take over the country. They are a large minority population under perpetual surveillance of Jordan for good cause.

4.) Golan Heights - A northern enclave of Palestinian arabs that were once part of Syria. Not particular prone to violence, they deserve a separate negotiation with Israel.

5.) The West Bank - The eastern Palestinian arabs that are occasionally prone to violence, but have a much higher chance of brokering a lasting peace with Israel and for which they have a different government than Gaza.

6.) Jews. Their ancestral homeland is Israel. Their ancestry comes from all 12 tribes of Israel. Ashkenazis are European admixtures that have Kazar and European ancestries and lived in Diaspora for 1800 years. Mizrahi Jews that remained in Israel, or went to Iran/Yemen/North Africa for a period of time. Sephardic Jews that migrated to Spain. Whatever the type of Jew, they all have a viable claim to Israel and suggesting they are "colonials" is ignorance of history and genetics. The homeland has been continuously the home of the Jews for the last 4500-8000 years regardless of some diaspora.

As to what ought to be done regarding the "Palestinian Problem" it sure the hell isn't giving these fragmented groups a singular government since they are living in far-flung spaces adjacent to Israel in all directions. A.) Those that can get along should be given their own provincial government under the banner of Israel just like present day Israeli Christians and Muslims have representation today. What about those that cannot get along and continue to elect terrorists to run their hellholes? Answer: They deserve the continued misery that their misdeeds have earned.

 

[mdwest]

I admire the guy's trigger discipline and just noticed for the first time that the weapon must be a 9mm.

Any of our army guys able to identify it?

He's carrying an H&K MP5. That was pretty much the standard shoulder weapon for almost all tactical teams in the US during the 80's and 90's and remained in most tactical team armories through the early 2000's until it was phased out in favor of different AR15 variants.

 

[mdwest]

BUT.........what you fail to note is this--what America DID NOT vote for is the current chaotic mass arrests where innocents (even children) are swept up and arrested (sometimes violently) along with the illegals.

I think you might need to open your aperture past the MSN and perhaps locals in MN and talk to Americans across the country..

Almost without exception the people that wanted Trump in office will tell you that whats going on right now is EXACTLY what they voted for..

They wanted Comey indited.. they wanted an immediate end to DEI.. they wanted the government downsized.. they wanted rapid mass deportation to include sweeping up anyone and everyone thats here illegally, whether gang banger or mother of 3... They wanted Europe, Canada, and the rest of the world put on its heels, etc..etc..

There is very, very little grumbling among those that see themselves on the hard right... and honestly those in the middle right dont seem too terribly upset either (I think you'll find that most on AH for example are more center-right than they are hard right, with only a handful of exceptions)..

The left is certainly up in arms... this is exactly what the left did not want...

But by in large, the right is pretty happy right now.. it remains far more concerned about the economy than most everything else.. and since the economy appears to be chugging along reasonably well at the moment, not too many are upset..

Let the economy crash between now and next July and that will be the end of the R party in power in DC.. the D's will take back at least one chamber if not both...

But if the economy stays reasonably decent no one is going to give much more than a single rats hairy ass about deportations, tarrifs, DEI, LGBTQ, or anything else when it comes time to pull a lever in a voting booth.. If anything the R party will pull further ahead...

And that is where Schumer, Pelosi, AOC, and all the rest are continuing to screw up.. they remain focused on the past.. they are worried about whether or not healthcare is going to get extended to "ALL" people (per Maxine Waters and others).. they are worried about whether or not Portland should be allowed to burn itself.. theyre worried about whether or not a 9 year old is getting sent back to Guatemala this week, etc.. And not bothering themselves with telling the American people how they are going to actually further improve the economy.. which is really what drives the overwhelming majority of voters to the polls..

The D party would do itself a favor by listening to people like Carvielle (like Clinton did) and spending less time worried about whats got Talib or Omars knickers twisted this week..

GDP is up 3.8%.. Unemployment remains around 4%.. consumer spending is above average compared to the last 4 years.. and the DOW sits at almost 47,000 (it broke its all time record at 47,125 earlier today).... Several economists are predicting it will cross the 50K mark next year..

Until the D's show a plan that improves on the above... ICE will continue to round folks up on a daily basis.. and no one (other than you) is really going to care all that much..

 

[Frostbite]

I suspect that frostbite won’t be interested in any source not written by a self hating Israeli communist like Pappé.

Interestingly enough, there is zero evidence that Pappe is a Communist.

Looks like another case of attacking (with lies) the source of facts that you don't like.



Here's the truth: Being a Jew he has embarrassed other Jews by telling the truth about the mass murder and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by the "Israelis" for almost 100 years.

• Pioneering "New Historian": Ilan Pappé is identified as one of the "New Historians," an Israeli academic movement that emerged in the late 1980s. These scholars challenged Israel's official narrative of its founding, primarily by using declassified Israeli government and military documents.
• Academic credentials: He holds a Ph.D. from the University of Oxford and is a professor and Director of the European Centre for Palestine Studies at the University of Exeter. His work has been published in peer-reviewed journals and cited by other scholars, though the extent and nature of these citations are also debated.
• Incorporation of Palestinian narratives: Pappé's work gives significant weight to Palestinian oral testimonies and experiences, which he argues is an essential, though not exclusive, component of understanding the history of the conflict. He and his supporters contend this corrects a historical bias that marginalized Palestinian perspectives.
• Scholarly support for thesis: His argument that there was a deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing against Palestinians during the 1948 war is supported by other historians who have studied the Palestinian exodus, including Rashid Khalidi and Walid Khalidi.

 

[Frostbite]

He's carrying an H&K MP5. That was pretty much the standard shoulder weapon for almost all tactical teams in the US during the 80's and 90's and remained in most tactical team armories through the early 2000's until it was phased out in favor of different AR15 variants.

Thanks.

I wouldn't mind owning one of those except I'm more in an age-related reduction of weaponry these days.

 

[mdwest]

Thanks.

I wouldn't mind owning one of those except I'm more in an age-related reduction of weaponry these days.

Semi auto variants are pricy.. but not completely out of reach.. $3-$4K typically for an actual HK built gun.. you can get knock offs for well under $2K..

the original Full Auto version of the MP5 is out of control expensive (not to mention having to deal with all of the Class III paperwork, etc).. they typically go between $35-$45K...

I was buying them direct from HK in the mid 90's with the Navy trigger group for about $900... funny how things change.. We bought a couple of them integrally suppressed from HK I think for about $1200 back then..

Far and away the most fun firearm Ive ever shot.. Accurate out to 50 yards with just the factory irons.. fast cyclic rate, but easily controlled.. it truly wasnt anything to do a mag dump on a target at 20 yards and keep all 30 rounds in the black.. super reliable as well... I cant remember ever having an MP5 going down during a raid or even in training for that matter as long as they were cleaned, oiled, and properly maintained..

 

[Frostbite]

That might be your talking point and its certainly a leftist talking point as well, but it is not remotely true.

Lets ignore the made up word Palestine and get real specific on the peoples we are talking about.

1.) Israelis of Christian and Muslim Descent. These folks can either be "Palestinian" (whatever the hell that means) or they are Hashemites. In either case, they aren't terrorists, they have a country, they have seats on the Knesset, and they serve in the IDF. They aren't wining and complaining, nor are they murdering innocents.

2.) Gaza - A unique, hellhole of a place run by Hamas that has a leadership so untrustworthy, their ethnic neighbors in the Sinai (Egyptians) won't open their borders to them. They were given self government in 2004 when the Israelis withdrew and all they did was dig tunnels and make weapons to kill Jews.

3.) Jordan - A Hashemite kingdom chock full of "Palestinians" The King of Jordan allowed them to enter his land and their "thank you" was immediately trying to murder the royal family and take over the country. They are a large minority population under perpetual surveillance of Jordan for good cause.

4.) Golan Heights - A northern enclave of Palestinian arabs that were once part of Syria. Not particular prone to violence, they deserve a separate negotiation with Israel.

5.) The West Bank - The eastern Palestinian arabs that are occasionally prone to violence, but have a much higher chance of brokering a lasting peace with Israel and for which they have a different government than Gaza.

6.) Jews. Their ancestral homeland is Israel. Their ancestry comes from all 12 tribes of Israel. Ashkenazis are European admixtures that have Kazar and European ancestries and lived in Diaspora for 1800 years. Mizrahi Jews that remained in Israel, or went to Iran/Yemen/North Africa for a period of time. Sephardic Jews that migrated to Spain. Whatever the type of Jew, they all have a viable claim to Israel and suggesting they are "colonials" is ignorance of history and genetics. The homeland has been continuously the home of the Jews for the last 4500-8000 years regardless of some diaspora.

As to what ought to be done regarding the "Palestinian Problem" it sure the hell isn't giving these fragmented groups a singular government since they are living in far-flung spaces adjacent to Israel in all directions. A.) Those that can get along should be given their own provincial government under the banner of Israel just like present day Israeli Christians and Muslims have representation today. What about those that cannot get along and continue to elect terrorists to run their hellholes? Answer: They deserve the continued misery that their misdeeds have earned.

No.

What I say is true. I have backed it up with links to books of history and respected links to Internet sources.

When you say of the Palestinians trying to take back their land--"They deserve the continued misery that their misdeeds have earned"............that is untrue.

Fact is, when the Jews left Palestine for 1800 years they lost any legal claim to that land.

It belonged and belongs--to the Palestinians that lived there.

The fact that two percent of the population was still Jewish is not enough to stake a claim to the whole country.

There were Jews who purchased land from Turkish landlords of the Ottoman Empire and they do have LEGAL claims to that land but that purchased land is a tiny percentage of Palestine.

What matters today is this........

The UN has recognized that the Palestinian people have a valid claim to their land, affirming their right to self-determination, national independence, and sovereignty in Palestine. This recognition has been expressed through numerous General Assembly resolutions, which have also acknowledged the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

 

[Frostbite]

Semi auto variants are pricy.. but not completely out of reach.. $3-$4K typically for an actual HK built gun.. you can get knock offs for well under $2K..

the original Full Auto version of the MP5 is out of control expensive (not to mention having to deal with all of the Class III paperwork, etc).. they typically go between $35-$45K...

I was buying them direct from HK in the mid 90's with the Navy trigger group for about $900... funny how things change.. We bought a couple of them integrally suppressed from HK I think for about $1200 back then..

Far and away the most fun firearm Ive ever shot.. Accurate out to 50 yards with just the factory irons.. fast cyclic rate, but easily controlled.. it truly wasnt anything to do a mag dump on a target at 20 yards and keep all 30 rounds in the black.. super reliable as well... I cant remember ever having an MP5 going down during a raid or even in training for that matter as long as they were cleaned, oiled, and properly maintained..

Very nice weapon.

I've been reading a lot about Hemingway for the past few years and he had way more than his share of machine guns. Many came from when he was an unofficial sub chaser with his boat Pilar off Cuba during the war.

They were mostly hidden away but he was often seen shooting sharks with his favorite Thompson.

When Castro was taking power he got the word that they were coming for his guns so he took Pilar out to sea and dumped a huge cache of automatic weapons over the side.

I suspect he almost cried

 

[rookhawk]

No.

What I say is true. I have backed it up with links to books of history and respected links to Internet sources.

When you say of the Palestinians trying to take back their land--"They deserve the continued misery that their misdeeds have earned"............that is untrue.

Fact is, when the Jews left Palestine for 1800 years they lost any legal claim to that land.

It belonged and belongs--to the Palestinians that lived there.

The fact that two percent of the population was still Jewish is not enough to stake a claim to the whole country.

There were Jews who purchased land from Turkish landlords of the Ottoman Empire and they do have LEGAL claims to that land but that purchased land is a tiny percentage of Palestine.

What matters today is this........

The UN has recognized that the Palestinian people have a valid claim to their land, affirming their right to self-determination, national independence, and sovereignty in Palestine. This recognition has been expressed through numerous General Assembly resolutions, which have also acknowledged the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

To paraphrase, you're saying "From the river to the sea". It sounds catchy, except you're calling for the extermination of the Jews because that is exactly what Hamas and Hezbollah's charter documents pledge as their ultimate goal. Three tiny non-connected territories of Gaza, Golan Heights, and West Bank should be a country? That's ridiculous in the same way that saying West Virginia, Maine, and California should all be known as "New California".

You COULD have 3 different countries and practically govern, but they all will starve and die without their primary trading and employment partner, Israel. Therefore, it sounds like the only workable solution is that Palestinian Muslims and Christians should be protectorates of Israel.

That will never fly with Hamas so where would you like to go from here?

 

[Frostbite]

To paraphrase, you're saying "From the river to the sea". It sounds catchy, except you're calling for the extermination of the Jews because that is exactly what Hamas and Hezbollah's charter documents pledge as their ultimate goal. Three tiny non-connected territories of Gaza, Golan Heights, and West Bank should be a country? That's ridiculous in the same way that saying West Virginia, Maine, and California should all be known as "New California".

You COULD have 3 different countries and practically govern, but they all will starve and die without their primary trading and employment partner, Israel. Therefore, it sounds like the only workable solution is that Palestinian Muslims and Christians should be protectorates of Israel.

That will never fly with Hamas so where would you like to go from here?

Stop talking nonsense.........I'm not saying anything about extermination of the Jews--that's ludicrous.

What I DO say is--stop the extermination of the Palestinians.

Anything more than that--the details of the future of the Zionist regime, Netanyahu, finding Palestinian leaders, establishing a portion of Palestine called "Israel" and keeping peace.........smarter men than me have to do it.

But the first step would be stopping the extermination of the Palestinians.

That means slamming the brakes on the horrific predator creature called "Israel."

 

[rookhawk]

Stop talking nonsense.........I'm not saying anything about extermination of the Jews--that's ludicrous.

What I DO say is--stop the extermination of the Palestinians.

Anything more than that--the details of the future of the Zionist regime, Netanyahu, finding Palestinian leaders, establishing a portion of Palestine called "Israel" and keeping peace.........smarter men than me have to do it.

But the first step would be stopping the extermination of the Palestinians.

That means slamming the brakes on the horrific predator creature called "Israel."

The burden is on you:

Draw us a map of "New Palestine"that reflects the borders of the country you want to manifest into existence.

 

[mdwest]

Interestingly enough, there is zero evidence that Pappe is a Communist.

Pappe is involved in Hadash. Hadash is a coalition party formed largely by the Israeli Communist Party.

Hadash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He ran for positions in the Israeli Parliament (Knesset) in both 1996 and in 1999 on the Hadash party ticket.

He is also a former member of the Board of Hadash..

Even the founder of the New Historians movement (that Ilan Pappe is very closely associated with), Benny Morris has openly criticized Pappe for letting his far left political opinions and socialist/communist ideals influence the information he claims are facts..

I'd say thats quite a bit of evidence that Pappe is (or at least at one time was) a Communist..

 

[Sideshow]

Netanyahu is no more "Israel" than Trump is "America".. they are merely leaders during a time period..

Do some reading on the history of Palestine and the reason there is no country of Palestine.. If you dont trust the conservative Hoover Institutes data points (they are all factual and historically documented, check out commentary offered by NPR (clearly hard left), or center left Brookings Institute.. Or if you arent into reading, Prager did a 5 minute video (links for all below)..

Why Is There No Palestinian State?

The conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is intractable. One binational state is impossible, given that the two sides – Jews and Arabs -- have irreconcilable national projects. The two-state scenario has also proven elusive with Palestinians refusing to recognize Jewish nationhood.

www.hoover.org

https://www.npr.org/2024/06/13/nx-s1-4985829/why-hasnt-there-been-a-palestinian-state

Why Palestinian Statehood Is a Question for the U.N. | Brookings

As the U.N. Security Council prepares to consider the question of Palestinian statehood, Shibley Telhami and Joshua Goldstein look at what would happen if the United States did not veto the resolution, as expected.

www.brookings.edu

The Arabs and the Palestinians have been rejecting the idea since it was first presented in 1947.

In 1993 Israel was all for giving the Palestinians a state.. Yassir Arafat refused..

In 2005 Ariel Sharon pushed an election where Abbas succeeded Arafat and handed over Gaza to Abbas along with additional land along the West Bank and allowed the Palestinians to self govern, purposefully setting them up for their own state... Abbas however, by your own earlier admission became outrageously corrupt, and by 2007 was ousted by Hamas, which killed any thoughts on moving from self governance to an independent state as was intended..

in 2008, the Israeli PM agreed to concede ALL pre 1967 territory to the Palestinians.. the only requirements was that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a state, and that they forgo any "right of return" (Israel didnt want to see a huge surge in Palestinian population in the immediate area due to obvious threats/concerns).. Abbas never responded to the offer, nor did Hamas (there was still squabbling in 2008 as to who was actually in control of Gaza)..

In 2009 Netanyahu made the same statement that was made in 2009.. He'd recognize Palestine and concede all territory.. Palestine simply had to recognize Israel as a state and forgo the right of return.. Again, no acceptance from the Palestinians..

In 2012 Obama asked the Palestinians to recognize the Jewish state.. Again they refused..

Again I'll ask.. how much time have you spent actually talking to a Palestinian? or in the region?

Your thoughts and opinions are not shared by the overwhelming majority of Palestinians.. I can say that after decades of time spent in the region, and several years of working directly with the Palestinian Authority (on behalf of the US State Department).

See @Frostbite still hasn’t answered you here @mdwest must be in his too tough basket.

 

[Sideshow]

I lived there for a while.. did you?

Whether or not there are "millions of refugees driven out that would be unable to return" is both complex and contentious and varies substantially depending on who you are talking to and what time period you are talking about..

The first problem with your statement is even the most liberal numbers assigned to those that fled are 700-800K.. not millions.. many sources will tell you the real number is closer to 200K..

The traditional Israeli narrative is that the overwhelming majority of the Palestinians that left, left voluntarily.. they wanted to escape the violence being created by their own people.. (wars initiated by Arab states or Palestinians, etc..)..

The traditional Palestinian narrative is that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians that left, left because of direct expulsions and out of fear..

Most historians will tell you that its a combination of both... they cite things such as the expulsion of +/- 50K Palestinians from Lydda and Ramle in 1948 at the order of David Ben-Gurion, while also citing mass murders, by organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah (that you have already admitted to), and Arab and Palestinians initiated wars such as the 6 Day War (and others) as causal for Palestinians wanting to leave the area..

Refusal to allow right of return is something NEW.. it had nothing to do with the 3 prior attempts to give the Palestinians a state, Yassir Arafats refusals, etc..etc.. so it certainly is not how the Zionists have sabotaged ALL agreements..

Roughly half of the people in the world that identify as Palestinians live in Gaza and the West Bank (7.5M +/-). All but about 700K however (and thats a very liberal number.. see above) of the other half (7.5M +/-) have never set foot in "Palestine" (West Bank or Gaza).. they werent born there, theyve never lived there, etc..

The other half are all over the world, but the majority still live in the region (Jordan, Iraq, Eqypt, Lebanon, etc). While most Palestinians want the right to return, numerous polls and political discussions prove that the "millions" you describe have no intention or desire to return.. They werent born in the West Bank or Gaza.. and have never lived there before.. In May of this year a UN study showed that only 33% of Palestinians even prioritize right of return anymore.. a 2023 study showed the number to be 31%.. So, in short, the majority of Palestinians living outside of Palestine dont think right of return should be a priority... its something theyd like to have.. but almost 70% of them think its not all that important..


Your ignorance and refusal to obtain knowledge is clear.. your lack of reading ability is evident as well... and you obviously have done little to no research beyond listening to leftist talking points..

So I suppose we're back to the discussion of stupid or stubborn... you never bothered to offer an alternative.. I guess Im going to go with "a little of both"..

.

 

[Frostbite]

I think you might need to open your aperture past the MSN and perhaps locals in MN and talk to Americans across the country..

Almost without exception the people that wanted Trump in office will tell you that whats going on right now is EXACTLY what they voted for..

They wanted Comey indited.. they wanted an immediate end to DEI.. they wanted the government downsized.. they wanted rapid mass deportation to include sweeping up anyone and everyone thats here illegally, whether gang banger or mother of 3... They wanted Europe, Canada, and the rest of the world put on its heels, etc..etc..

There is very, very little grumbling among those that see themselves on the hard right... and honestly those in the middle right dont seem too terribly upset either (I think you'll find that most on AH for example are more center-right than they are hard right, with only a handful of exceptions)..

The left is certainly up in arms... this is exactly what the left did not want...

But by in large, the right is pretty happy right now.. it remains far more concerned about the economy than most everything else.. and since the economy appears to be chugging along reasonably well at the moment, not too many are upset..

Let the economy crash between now and next July and that will be the end of the R party in power in DC.. the D's will take back at least one chamber if not both...

But if the economy stays reasonably decent no one is going to give much more than a single rats hairy ass about deportations, tarrifs, DEI, LGBTQ, or anything else when it comes time to pull a lever in a voting booth.. If anything the R party will pull further ahead...

And that is where Schumer, Pelosi, AOC, and all the rest are continuing to screw up.. they remain focused on the past.. they are worried about whether or not healthcare is going to get extended to "ALL" people (per Maxine Waters and others).. they are worried about whether or not Portland should be allowed to burn itself.. theyre worried about whether or not a 9 year old is getting sent back to Guatemala this week, etc.. And not bothering themselves with telling the American people how they are going to actually further improve the economy.. which is really what drives the overwhelming majority of voters to the polls..

View attachment 721555

The D party would do itself a favor by listening to people like Carvielle (like Clinton did) and spending less time worried about whats got Talib or Omars knickers twisted this week..

GDP is up 3.8%.. Unemployment remains around 4%.. consumer spending is above average compared to the last 4 years.. and the DOW sits at almost 47,000 (it broke its all time record at 47,125 earlier today).... Several economists are predicting it will cross the 50K mark next year..

Until the D's show a plan that improves on the above... ICE will continue to round folks up on a daily basis.. and no one (other than you) is really going to care all that much..

That's a rosy perspective for Trump and his future.

What I see is an increasing number of people that see his extremes as far too destructive--and I see things falling apart.

We were raised to reject totalitarian government..........we don't accept dictators.

Here are the types of extremism that, added up, spell doom as they get worse.

Trump could still fix this by simply tapping the brakes on extremism........but I suspect he's listening to people like you.

So he's getting worse. This cannot succeed. He is simply obliterating the norms we grew up with and cherish.

• January 6 pardons: Trump's decision to pardon individuals convicted of crimes related to the January 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol is one of his most unpopular actions. Polling found that 83% of Americans opposed pardons for those convicted of violent crimes in the riot, and a majority also opposed pardons for nonviolent offenders.
• Weaponization of government: Reports in 2025 indicate fears among some of Trump's critics that they could become targets for prosecution by his administration. This follows numerous past incidents, including repeated threats to use government agencies, such as the FBI and IRS, against political opponents.
• Attacks on the federal bureaucracy: Trump has often attacked the civil service, calling for mass firings of federal workers and proposing measures to weaken the independence of agencies. A 2025 poll found public disapproval of plans to lay off large numbers of government workers.
• Abuse of power: During his first term, and again in his second, Trump's administration has been cited for issues like Hatch Act violations, which prohibit using official positions for political purposes, and for ethical conflicts of interest involving his business holdings.

Immigration and border enforcement
This issue remains one of Trump's most central and divisive policy areas. While he draws strong support for his tough stance among his base, many of his proposals are broadly unpopular.

• Mass deportations: Trump has promised to launch the largest mass deportation program in U.S. history, but polls show disapproval, particularly regarding deporting long-term residents or those who entered as children. A 2025 poll indicated that public opinion of Trump's immigration policies had become more negative over time, even among his supporters.
• Separating families: The "zero-tolerance" policy at the border, which led to the separation of families and the failure to create proper records for reunification, was widely condemned by the public and has been cited as a significant human rights issue.
• Ending birthright citizenship: This proposal, which would require a constitutional change, is opposed by a majority of the public. An executive order attempting to end birthright citizenship in January 2025 was blocked by federal courts as unconstitutional.
• Travel bans: Restrictions on entry for people from predominantly Muslim countries, implemented during his first administration, met widespread opposition.

Economic and trade policy
While some Republicans credited Trump's policies with helping the economy, overall public opinion has been skeptical.

• Tariffs: His proposal for across-the-board tariffs of 10% to 20% is broadly unpopular due to concerns it would lead to higher inflation and job losses. His previous use of tariffs also drew criticism and retaliatory trade measures.
• Economic instability: Critics and economic experts have warned that other proposals, such as weakening the independence of the Federal Reserve and deliberately devaluing the U.S. dollar, could cause economic instability and harm business.

Social and civil rights
Trump's policies have targeted LGBTQ+ and racial equity initiatives, resulting in significant public backlash.

• Ending DEI initiatives: Trump has called for ending diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs within federal government institutions, a move that is deeply unpopular.
• LGBTQ+ rights: Proposed rollbacks of protections for transgender students and restrictions on gender recognition are widely opposed. A 2025 poll found majorities disapproved of policies seen as hostile to the LGBTQ community.
• Attacking abortion rights: Many have criticized Trump for his role in overturning Roe v. Wade, which revoked the constitutional right to abortion, and for continued rhetoric against abortion access.

Environment and health care
Trump has long faced criticism for his approach to both environmental protection and health care.

• Environmental rollbacks: Trump has taken steps to weaken environmental regulations, withdraw from the Paris Agreement, and promote fossil fuels, which often conflicts with public opinion.
• Attacking the ACA: His repeated promises to repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA), a popular law, without providing a replacement plan, has consistently been met with public opposition.

 

[mdwest]

Again, I'd encourage you to look past the people you know in MN and what might be getting said on most MSM outlets..

Talk to not just MAGA folks.. but also with people that are closer to center-right...

Almost without exception, everything on your list above that you think is a problem.. they support.. they will tell you this is exactly why they voted for him and exactly why they want the next guy to hold the office to look very similar to him..

They want ACA to go away.. and want the entire discussion of single payer insurance to go away..

They want environmental rollbacks.. they think the EPA and others have gone way too far and are destroying both the American economy and American industry..

They wanted Roe v Wade to go away.. even Ruth Bader Ginsberg thought it was a terrible ruling that took the abortion argument in a direction that would ultimately get over turned.. she thought there were much better paths that would have a permanent stick.. and knew R v W would ultimately die as soon a s a conservative court came in to play..

Even many liberals wanted to roll back the insanity that Biden created with DEI and LGBTQ+ issues.. One day I'll have to tell you the story about the COO of Grinder, the LGBTQ+ dating app, and how he chewed the asses off of several professors at U Penns Wharton School for how insane their position on DEI and LGBTQ+ was and how destructive he thought it was on business.. It was pretty fun to watch go down in real time honestly.. there were probably 75 senior executives in the room.. most from fairly large companies.. most with Ivy League educations themselves.. attending an executive education course at Wharton on leadership.. I was truthfully one of the smallest fish in that particular pond that day.. Im pretty sure they expected pushback from maybe one of the C-Suite guys from Brown Forman that was in the room.. or one of the Sr Exec's from 5th 3rd Bank... but when the COO of Grindr let them have it.. it was truly a sight to behold lol..

Economic instability? Youll have to do better than that.. the DOW literally broke all records today and hit its all time high.. and numerous economists (to include liberal ones) are predicting the DOW to go to 50,000 next year.. unemployment is hovering at 4%.. GDP is up, the economy is growing.. and consumer spending is up..

Tariffs scared a lot of people for a very short period of time.. at this point you dont hear anyone bitching or moaning with any frequency about the tariffs anymore other than the extreme left.. at the end of the day whether anyone likes how deals got made, numerous deals that have benefitted the US economy have been struck and revenue is coming into the US government and the US economy..

and the list goes on and on and on..

I get that YOU dont like any of this..

but the truth is the overwhelming majority of the right is LOVING it, despite what Joy Behar and Whoppie Goldberg or Joe Scarborough might be saying..

Again.. call someone that isnt a MAGA type, but a simple center-right kinda guy.. and sincerely ask them what they think...

youre going to find that you are indeed in the minority..