Blazer R8 issue

[Red Leg]

I have a .257 barrel among mine, and it has shot factory loads without an issue. Only "click" I ever has was at the bench when I first acquired an R8. I was babying the bolt closure.

 

[analog_peninsula]

I’ve heard about these problems, but have never experienced it personally. I also don’t reload and only shoot factory loaded ammo. (snip)

I've only had the issue with reloads, but my .300 WM barrel is intolerant of imperfect dimensions. The Wilson case gauge earlier combined with a sizing die adjustment was enough to resolve the issues I experienced, but I've learned to not swap brass with other rifles, run reloads through the Wilson gauge, etc., and generally assume that things have to be exactly right to avoid issues.

 

[Philip Glass]

Haven’t had it happen on the other four barrels.

It must be the ammo then.

 

[uplander01]

I thought the R8’s were modern marvel of engineering and fail safe and worked every time….oh boy here we go…..

 

[analog_peninsula]

I thought the R8’s were modern marvel of engineering and fail safe and worked every time….oh boy here we go…..

I own and like two R8s, but they have two design weaknesses worth understanding. They are very sensitive to case dimensions, and lack the camming power of a conventional bolt action. They also require you to close the bolt vigorously to ensure reliable operation. They are great rifles, but every design has trade offs.

 

[jbirdwell]

I don't remember who I heard it from but was told to only full length resize on reloads for the R8. I'm fairly new to reloading so take what I saw with a grain of salt but if your only resizing the neck, try a few rounds that are full length resized and see if that makes a difference.

 

[meigsbucks]

I don't remember who I heard it from but was told to only full length resize on reloads for the R8. I'm fairly new to reloading so take what I saw with a grain of salt but if your only resizing the neck, try a few rounds that are full length resized and see if that makes a difference.

I have been fully resizing. I need to measure fired cases vs resized. I had already backed up a bit. Might need to try headspace gauges.

 

[One Day...]

I believe @One Day... has a 257 weatherby barrel for his R8, and I know he knows the R8 platform exceptionally well… he may have some insight for you…

Thank you for the vote of confidence Dave I will repost here what I had posted in my more comprehensive review of the R8

Thread 'Transitioning To A Blaser R8 - A Two Months / 500 Rounds Review'

Nov 27, 2020

Transitioning to a Blaser R8 - A two months / 500 rounds review series of articles

So, the deed is done, I have purchased a Blaser R8 and 4 barrels.

This came as a shock to some friends on AH.com who know me to be a fervent advocate of the CZ 550 as the best value in the affordable DG rifle market, and as a bomb-proof rifle after a bit of debugging…

I am not recanting!

After two months and 500 rounds with the Blaser R8, I would like to share some thoughts with those who, like me, have been on the fence regarding the R8:

1. First, I want to thank AH members Red...

• One Day...

• 
• 

Understanding and avoiding the "Blaser click" on the R8

Reloads.. I’ve adjusted the die up and down in several increments. I’ve thought of trying factory ammo.

Operating word: "Reloads".

Here is what happens, in as concise a form as possible:

The R8 bolt locks when the collet (green) is expanded outward by a steel sleeve (orange) that is pushed forward by the in-line forward rotation of the bolt handle when the collet lugs line up with, and engage in the barrel recess.

THIS IS DONE IN THE LAST HALF INCH OF BOLT HANDLE FORWARD ROTATION, when the bolt head advances forward the last ~1/128th of an inch.

If the last half inch of bolt handle forward rotation is not done, the action LOOKS closed, but it is not:

If the trigger is depressed at this stage, this is the dreaded "Blaser click". The firing pin is released (just as it can be released with a turn bolt action by depressing the trigger while closing the bolt), but it is blocked by its safety block and stops short of striking the primer.

The two most classic ways for the "click" to happen are:

1) The use of reloaded ammo either not fully re-sized, or incompletely fully re-sized. The case does not penetrate completely in the chamber; the bolt head does not penetrate the last ~1/128th; the collet lugs do not line up with, and do not engage in the barrel recess; and the action does not close although it looks closed at a glance. The action is not in battery, therefore the safety block stops the firing pin.

2) Hunters loading a round in the chamber in close proximity of a game they have stalked and trying to do it ever so delicately in complete silence. Because there is a marked mechanical stage after the bolt is partially closed, before it is locked by the bolt handle rotating forward the last half inch, some new Blaser users have failed to actually close the bolt fully. The action is not in battery, therefore the safety block stops the firing pin.

The infamous "Blaser click" likely annoys reloaders, and probably cost a few R8 novices an easy shot after a successful stalk, but it is the result of operator error. This would be similar to moving the bolt forward on a classic turn-bolt action, but not turning the bolt down fully to actually engage the bolt lugs in the barrel recesses and lock the action.


Conversely, when the bolt is fully rotated forward, the action closes and is in battery (ready to fire).

Compare the picture of the bolt in battery with the picture of the bolt not in battery. Observe that the bolt handle is rotated 1/2" further forward. This is clearly visible when comparing its position to the position of the trigger.

There are two possible ways to ensure that the action is closed:

1 -- In most cases: slams the action forward after having cycled it vigorously backward to ensure full ejection and pick up of a cartridge from the magazine.
Note: this is the reason why I took out the rearward action cycling stop on the .223 Rem and .22 LR magazine inserts, so that I practice the full action cycling rearward during training and do not form incorrect physical memory that could lead to short-stroking.

2 -- When reloading silently, keep pushing the bolt forward after the first marked mechanical stage when the bolt is partially closed, until the bolt is fully closed in a second marked mechanical stage.

To the best of my comprehension of the issue, this is independent from caliber, and without knowing the specifics in meigsbucks' case, I speculate that this is related to ammo rather than barrel. It just may be that his reloaded ammo is more completely re-sized for his other calibers.

I own and like two R8s, but they have two design weaknesses worth understanding. They are very sensitive to case dimensions, and lack the camming power of a conventional bolt action. They also require you to close the bolt vigorously to ensure reliable operation. They are great rifles, but every design has trade offs.

Whether this issue results from a design shortcoming is a matter of personal perception. It is true that Blaser chambers strictly conform to SAAMI specs - which some interpret as being too tight (?), and it is true that they do not tolerate approximate case dimensions on reloads - which some interpret as faulty (?), but the other size of that coin is that close tolerances are a major contributor to accuracy.

Speaking only of personal experience, I own barrels in .22 LR (weekly backyard practice), .222 (wife's trainer), .223 (my trainer), .270 Win (wife's PG), 9.3x62 (wife's DG), .257 Wby (Mountain Game), .300 Wby (Plains Game), .375 H&H (cats) and .458 Lott (large DG) and ALL these barrel shoot sub MOA routinely. For example, no later than a week ago I was in Africa and the 9.3x62 barrel produced a 1.25" 3-shot groups at 100 yards, from the quad stick, with numerous witnesses during a casual range session with cheap PPU ammo. There is no doubt in my mind that close tolerances contribute to this type of outcome.

Regarding how to close the bolt, my own experience with the aforementioned 9 barrels, and 3 stocks/receivers (one with the steel insert; one with alloy insert, and one shortened for my wife), is that the operating word is not "vigorously" but "completely", in as much as the locking happens in the last half inch of bolt forward rotation, after a marked mechanical step that may be interpreted wrongly as the end of the rotation.

I understand why closing the bolt "vigorously" insures the full rotation of the bolt forward, bt this can also be accomplished slowly and silently, the ned goal being the same: full rotation forward of the bolt.

I thought the R8’s were modern marvel of engineering and fail safe and worked every time….oh boy here we go…..

In truth they are, but they share with their forefathers the weakness of depending on operators knowing and understanding their manual of arms

In the campfire Gin & Tonic discussions last week, I believe that I said something to the effect that the Blaser R8 is to the Mauser system, what the Glock is to the 1911. Being sober today, I still believe that this is a good analogy

The critical difference between a Mauser system bolt action and a Blaser R8 is that there is a huge visual cue when the lugs of a turn bolt are not engaged: the bolt handle is still up. Admittedly, there is only a subtle visual cue when the lugs of the R8 are not engaged: the last 1/2" of bolt rotation, but when you know and understand how the bolt works (i.e. Manual of Arms) it is just as easy to verify instinctively: the lugs are locked when the bolt stop turning forward.

I hope this was of interest.

 

[jbirdwell]

Thank you for the vote of confidence Dave I will repost here what I had posted in my more comprehensive review of the R8

Thread 'Transitioning To A Blaser R8 - A Two Months / 500 Rounds Review'

Nov 27, 2020

Transitioning to a Blaser R8 - A two months / 500 rounds review series of articles

So, the deed is done, I have purchased a Blaser R8 and 4 barrels.

This came as a shock to some friends on AH.com who know me to be a fervent advocate of the CZ 550 as the best value in the affordable DG rifle market, and as a bomb-proof rifle after a bit of debugging…

I am not recanting!

After two months and 500 rounds with the Blaser R8, I would like to share some thoughts with those who, like me, have been on the fence regarding the R8:

1. First, I want to thank AH members Red...

• One Day...

• 
• 

Understanding and avoiding the "Blaser click" on the R8



Operating word: "Reloads".

Here is what happens, in as concise a form as possible:

The R8 bolt locks when the collet (green) is expanded outward by a steel sleeve (orange) that is pushed forward by the in-line forward rotation of the bolt handle when the collet lugs line up with, and engage in the barrel recess.

THIS IS DONE IN THE LAST HALF INCH OF BOLT HANDLE FORWARD ROTATION, when the bolt head advances forward the last ~1/128th of an inch.

If the last half inch of bolt handle forward rotation is not done, the action LOOKS closed, but it is not:

If the trigger is depressed at this stage, this is the dreaded "Blaser click". The firing pin is released (just as it can be released with a turn bolt action by depressing the trigger while closing the bolt), but it is blocked by its safety block and stops short of striking the primer.

The two most classic ways for the "click" to happen are:

1) The use of reloaded ammo either not fully re-sized, or incompletely fully re-sized. The case does not penetrate completely in the chamber; the bolt head does not penetrate the last ~1/128th; the collet lugs do not line up with, and do not engage in the barrel recess; and the action does not close although it looks closed at a glance. The action is not in battery, therefore the safety block stops the firing pin.

2) Hunters loading a round in the chamber in close proximity of a game they have stalked and trying to do it ever so delicately in complete silence. Because there is a marked mechanical stage after the bolt is partially closed, before it is locked by the bolt handle rotating forward the last half inch, some new Blaser users have failed to actually close the bolt fully. The action is not in battery, therefore the safety block stops the firing pin.

The infamous "Blaser click" likely annoys reloaders, and probably cost a few R8 novices an easy shot after a successful stalk, but it is the result of operator error. This would be similar to moving the bolt forward on a classic turn-bolt action, but not turning the bolt down fully to actually engage the bolt lugs in the barrel recesses and lock the action.


Conversely, when the bolt is fully rotated forward, the action closes and is in battery (ready to fire).

Compare the picture of the bolt in battery with the picture of the bolt not in battery. Observe that the bolt handle is rotated 1/2" further forward. This is clearly visible when comparing its position to the position of the trigger.

There are two possible ways to ensure that the action is closed:

1 -- In most cases: slams the action forward after having cycled it vigorously backward to ensure full ejection and pick up of a cartridge from the magazine.
Note: this is the reason why I took out the rearward action cycling stop on the .223 Rem and .22 LR magazine inserts, so that I practice the full action cycling rearward during training and do not form incorrect physical memory that could lead to short-stroking.

2 -- When reloading silently, keep pushing the bolt forward after the first marked mechanical stage when the bolt is partially closed, until the bolt is fully closed in a second marked mechanical stage.

To the best of my comprehension of the issue, this is independent from caliber, and without knowing the specifics in meigsbucks' case, I speculate that this is related to ammo rather than barrel. It just may be that his reloaded ammo is more completely re-sized for his other calibers.




Whether this issue results from a design shortcoming is a matter of personal perception. It is true that Blaser chambers strictly conform to SAAMI specs - which some interpret as being too tight (?), and it is true that they do not tolerate approximate case dimensions on reloads - which some interpret as faulty (?), but the other size of that coin is that close tolerances are a major contributor to accuracy.

Speaking only of personal experience, I own barrels in .22 LR (weekly backyard practice), .222 (wife's trainer), .223 (my trainer), .270 Win (wife's PG), 9.3x62 (wife's DG), .257 Wby (Mountain Game), .300 Wby (Plains Game), .375 H&H (cats) and .458 Lott (large DG) and ALL these barrel shoot sub MOA routinely. For example, no later than a week ago I was in Africa and the 9.3x62 barrel produced a 1.25" 3-shot groups at 100 yards, from the quad stick, with numerous witnesses during a casual range session with cheap PPU ammo. There is no doubt in my mind that close tolerances contribute to this type of outcome.

Regarding how to close the bolt, my own experience with the aforementioned 9 barrels, and 3 stocks/receivers (one with the steel insert; one with alloy insert, and one shortened for my wife), is that the operating word is not "vigorously" but "completely", in as much as the locking happens in the last half inch of bolt forward rotation, after a marked mechanical step that may be interpreted wrongly as the end of the rotation.

I understand why closing the bolt "vigorously" insures the full rotation of the bolt forward, bt this can also be accomplished slowly and silently, the ned goal being the same: full rotation forward of the bolt.




In truth they are, but they share with their forefathers the weakness of depending on operators knowing and understanding their manual of arms

In the campfire Gin & Tonic discussions last week, I believe that I said something to the effect that the Blaser R8 is to the Mauser system, what the Glock is to the 1911. Being sober today, I still believe that this is a good analogy

The critical difference between a Mauser system bolt action and a Blaser R8 is that there is a huge visual cue when the lugs of a turn bolt are not engaged: the bolt handle is still up. Admittedly, there is only a subtle visual cue when the lugs of the R8 are not engaged: the last 1/2" of bolt rotation, but when you know and understand how the bolt works (i.e. Manual of Arms) it is just as easy to verify instinctively: the lugs are locked when the bolt stop turning forward.

I hope this was of interest.

Thank you for this great explanation and illustration.