35 Whelen

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Of course, the correct answer is to have one of each! I have both; a Ruger M77 Mk II in .35 Whelen and a CZ 550 American in 9.3x62.

I've found it's easier to find lighter bullets (250 gr or less) for the .35 Whelen than it is for the 9.3x62. The 270 gr Speers are about the lightest I can find reliably available for the 9.3 and that's not much different than the standard 286 gr bullets. So, one could use 200 - 225 gr bullets in the .35 Whelen and use the heavier 286 gr bullets in the 9.3x62. In my mind, that's just one way to separate or distinguish between the two cartridges although it's not a huge difference.

And, with 225 gr bullets, the .35 Whelen does a pretty good job of imitating the .350 Rigby Magnum (original ballistics of a 225 gr bullet at 2600 fps) and that's not a bad niche to be in, IMO.

Just my ramblings and musings... Cheers! Bob F,

@BFaucett
Bob F
Or you could run the Whelen at the proper speeds and out do the 350 Rigby by adding 300fps for the Whelen.
And for a heavy weight there's no flies on the Whelen with a healthy dose of H4350 and a 310gn soft or solid at over 2,400fps. That's getting up into original 375 territory.
Bob

 

[BFaucett]

@BFaucett
Bob F
Or you could run the Whelen at the proper speeds and out do the 350 Rigby by adding 300fps for the Whelen.
And for a heavy weight there's no flies on the Whelen with a healthy dose of H4350 and a 310gn soft or solid at over 2,400fps. That's getting up into original 375 territory.
Bob

I know you're a big fan and proponent of the .35 Whelen but I don't like to push mine or my 9.3x62 that hard. I like the milder recoil at the more moderate velocities.

For my .35 Whelen, I'm comfortable and satisfied with:

225 gr at 2600 - 2700 fps​

250 gr at 2400 - 2500 fps​

And for my for 9.3x62, I'm comfortable and satisfied with:

286 gr at 2350-2450 fps​

If I want any more horsepower than that, then I have my .338 Win Mag and my .375 H&H Mag waiting in my gun closet.

And when it comes to the .35 Whelen using a 310 gr bullet, let's not forget that the .338 Win Mag is no slouch when it comes to using heavy bullets. A .338" 300 gr (sec den = .375) Woodleigh RN at around 2450 fps wouldn't exactly be what I'd call anemic.

Cheers! Bob F.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

thanks guys the Whelen does have a better choice of bullets, the 9.3 is a pain looking for bullets unless you want Hammer or CEB in stock. for some reason I have never been a big fan or the Barnes TSX. It might be awhile before I get the barrel done I think I will start with the action first.

 

[MS 9x56]

I have been able to source 270 grain Speer, 286 grain Norma oryx, 232grain Norma Alaskan, 250 grain Speer NOS, 286 grain Hornady Interlock 9.3 bullets at my local LGS in North central PA.

 

[camperx]

I had one for several years. It was the easiest rifle I ever did load development for, it seemed to shoot everything well. Shooting full house loads with heavy bullets wasn't exactly pleasant.

I took it elk hunting a couple of times and never connected. I've shot a couple deer with it ans it does the job well. The .350 Rem Mag was an attempt to duplicate the Whelen in a short action.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I had one for several years. It was the easiest rifle I ever did load development for, it seemed to shoot everything well. Shooting full house loads with heavy bullets wasn't exactly pleasant.

I took it elk hunting a couple of times and never connected. I've shot a couple deer with it ans it does the job well. The .350 Rem Mag was an attempt to duplicate the Whelen in a short action.

@camperx
What do regard as full house loads a
250gn load at 2,700 fps in my rifle is very pleasant to shoot, but then again my rifle weights in at 9# and the stock fits me like a glove.
Bob

 

[Hagler.450Ex]

I know you're a big fan and proponent of the .35 Whelen but I don't like to push mine or my 9.3x62 that hard. I like the milder recoil at the more moderate velocities.

For my .35 Whelen, I'm comfortable and satisfied with:

225 gr at 2600 - 2700 fps​

250 gr at 2400 - 2500 fps​

And for my for 9.3x62, I'm comfortable and satisfied with:

286 gr at 2350-2450 fps​

If I want any more horsepower than that, then I have my .338 Win Mag and my .375 H&H Mag waiting in my gun closet.

And when it comes to the .35 Whelen using a 310 gr bullet, let's not forget that the .338 Win Mag is no slouch when it comes to using heavy bullets. A .338" 300 gr (sec den = .375) Woodleigh RN at around 2450 fps wouldn't exactly be what I'd call anemic.

Cheers! Bob F.

View attachment 716127

View attachment 716128

Bob posts a couple pictures of an old box of .338's and I instantly think of wanting one

 

[BFaucett]

Bob posts a couple pictures of an old box of .338's and I instantly think of wanting one

I tend to think of the .338 Win Mag as today's version of the .333 Jeffery. After all, it was Elmer Keith's development of the .333 OKH and .334 OKH wildcat cartridges (both used the .333" diameter bullets of the .333 Jeffery) that helped prompt Winchester to develop and introduce the .338 Winchester Magnum cartridge way back in 1958.

The .338 Win Mag was introduced during what I consider to be the "golden age" (the 1950s and 1960s) of Americans going on hunting safaris in Africa. And, the .33 caliber fit right in given the history of the use in Africa of the .318 Westley Richards (.330") and the .333 Jeffery cartridges. And, of course, Winchester had introduced the .458 Win Mag in 1956. Americans were headed to Africa and, IMO, Winchester saw the demand for new cartridges.

In fact, I have a copy of the book A Sentimental Safari (first edition, © 1963) by Kermit Roosevelt (grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt) where he and his son went on a safari in east Africa in 1960 to commemorate the 50 year anniversary of TR's famous safari in 1910. While Kermit and his son didn't take any rifles chambered for the .338 Win Mag, they did each take new Winchester Model 70 rifles chambered in .264 Win Mag, .375 H&H Mag, and .458 Win Mag.

Here's my .338:

Ruger M77 Mk II .338 Win Mag

Just my ramblings and musings. . . Cheers! Bob F.

source:
The .333 Jeffery
Cartridge of the Month
by Koos Barnard
ManMagnum Magazine, August 2005

The brief (one page) article is attached (a pdf file).

 

[Hagler.450Ex]

I tend to think of the .338 Win Mag as today's version of the .333 Jeffery. After all, it was Elmer Keith's development of the .333 OKH and .334 OKH wildcat cartridges (both used the .333" diameter bullets of the .333 Jeffery) that helped prompt Winchester to develop and introduce the .338 Winchester Magnum cartridge way back in 1958.

The .338 Win Mag was introduced during what I consider to be the "golden age" (the 1950s and 1960s) of Americans going on hunting safaris in Africa. And, the .33 caliber fit right in given the history of the use in Africa of the .318 Westley Richards (.330") and the .333 Jeffery cartridges. And, of course, Winchester had introduced the .458 Win Mag in 1956. Americans were headed to Africa and, IMO, Winchester saw the demand for new cartridges.

In fact, I have a copy of the book A Sentimental Safari (first edition, © 1963) by Kermit Roosevelt (grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt) where he and his son went on a safari in east Africa in 1960 to commemorate the 50 year anniversary of TR's famous safari in 1910. While Kermit and his son didn't take any rifles chambered for the .338 Win Mag, they did each take new Winchester Model 70 rifles chambered in .264 Win Mag, .375 H&H Mag, and .458 Win Mag.

Here's my .338:

View attachment 716544
Ruger M77 Mk II .338 Win Mag

Just my ramblings and musings. . . Cheers! Bob F.


View attachment 716545
View attachment 716548


View attachment 716546
source:
The .333 Jeffery
Cartridge of the Month
by Koos Barnard
ManMagnum Magazine, August 2005

The brief (one page) article is attached (a pdf file).


View attachment 716552

I had found a reasonably priced M70 Winchester (not pre-64 of course), but in nice shape, and am thinking on it. The ballistics are very nice. Knowing me, I'd load it to .333 level. And I agree, I like to think of it as today's version of it.
I've never liked belted brass or how they feed, but I 'might' be able to look over that in the .338.
Love the pictures! And a nice Ruger you have there! I swear, the more pictures, the more I want one

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I tend to think of the .338 Win Mag as today's version of the .333 Jeffery. After all, it was Elmer Keith's development of the .333 OKH and .334 OKH wildcat cartridges (both used the .333" diameter bullets of the .333 Jeffery) that helped prompt Winchester to develop and introduce the .338 Winchester Magnum cartridge way back in 1958.

The .338 Win Mag was introduced during what I consider to be the "golden age" (the 1950s and 1960s) of Americans going on hunting safaris in Africa. And, the .33 caliber fit right in given the history of the use in Africa of the .318 Westley Richards (.330") and the .333 Jeffery cartridges. And, of course, Winchester had introduced the .458 Win Mag in 1956. Americans were headed to Africa and, IMO, Winchester saw the demand for new cartridges.

In fact, I have a copy of the book A Sentimental Safari (first edition, © 1963) by Kermit Roosevelt (grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt) where he and his son went on a safari in east Africa in 1960 to commemorate the 50 year anniversary of TR's famous safari in 1910. While Kermit and his son didn't take any rifles chambered for the .338 Win Mag, they did each take new Winchester Model 70 rifles chambered in .264 Win Mag, .375 H&H Mag, and .458 Win Mag.

Here's my .338:

View attachment 716544
Ruger M77 Mk II .338 Win Mag

Just my ramblings and musings. . . Cheers! Bob F.


View attachment 716545
View attachment 716548


View attachment 716546
source:
The .333 Jeffery
Cartridge of the Month
by Koos Barnard
ManMagnum Magazine, August 2005

The brief (one page) article is attached (a pdf file).


View attachment 716552

@BFaucett
BobF
So what are those 3 cartridges doing that a factory loaded Whelen isn't already doing.
Load the Whelen properly and the Whelen is doing the same as the 338 win mag with 250s.
Ill stick with my Whelen thank you.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

@baxterb
You can get it comfortably from a 24" tube with normal loading lengths.
Give CFE 223 a try you will be amazed.
Bob

Wouldn’t it be nice if you could source it.

 

[BFaucett]

@BFaucett
BobF
So what are those 3 cartridges doing that a factory loaded Whelen isn't already doing.
Load the Whelen properly and the Whelen is doing the same as the 338 win mag with 250s.
Ill stick with my Whelen thank you.
Bob

Yeah, the .35 Whelen is the most sophisticated and versatile smokeless powder cartridge over .30 caliber ever invented. James Howe's only grievous mistake when designing it was in using bullets of .358" diameter instead of .338". Fortunately, Elmer Keith, Charlie O'Neil, and Don Hopkins came along and corrected Howe's grievous mistake when they developed the .333 OKH cartridge. They only used .333" diameter bullets because they were available in heavier weights than the .338" diameter bullets available at the time. But then, in 1958, the wise experts of ballistics at Winchester introduced the magnificent .338 Winchester Magnum cartridge, loaded with proper .338" diameter heavy bullets, and finally all was right with the world. The angels rejoiced and the .35 Whelen continued to languish in obscurity.

Cheers! Bob F.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Wouldn’t it be nice if you could source it.

@CBH Australia
Chris I have enough CFE 223 to last me my life and some of my sons life. I still have around 18# of it so not wuckers mate
Bob

 

[Badboymelvin]

I ma having a hard time trying to decide between building a 35 Whelen and another 9.3x62. I now have a Sauer model 100 that is light and very handy to carry. But for some reason I keep thinking I need a 35 Whelen so someone please help me make up my mind.the rifle I am building will be a Remington model 700 20 inch barrel the Jess rebore will bore and rifle the barrel and I already have a spare McMillan stock and Timmey trigger

9.3x62

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yeah, the .35 Whelen is the most sophisticated and versatile smokeless powder cartridge over .30 caliber ever invented. James Howe's only grievous mistake when designing it was in using bullets of .358" diameter instead of .338". Fortunately, Elmer Keith, Charlie O'Neil, and Don Hopkins came along and corrected Howe's grievous mistake when they developed the .333 OKH cartridge. They only used .333" diameter bullets because they were available in heavier weights than the .338" diameter bullets available at the time. But then, in 1958, the wise experts of ballistics at Winchester introduced the magnificent .338 Winchester Magnum cartridge, loaded with proper .338" diameter heavy bullets, and finally all was right with the world. The angels rejoiced and the .35 Whelen continued to languish in obscurity.

Cheers! Bob F.

@BFaucett
BobF
Then along came some big bastard Australian that discovered modern loading for the Whelen and bought it into the 21 century with velocities it was supposed to have had from the start.
These new loads gave the 338 wimpchester a shake up that it can never recover from and put it back in its place ,2nd place that is.
This discovery had the angels up in arms as they thought they were being cheated. But upon reflection these angels came to the realisation that they had backed the wrong horse all along and asked for forgiveness of the great messer's Howe and Whelen.
They discovered Winchester had spoken with the forked tongue of the serpent and lied to the people telling them the 338,270 and 243 were great.
These same angels are now singing the praises of the mighty Whelen and those in the know are now singing from the same hymn book because they realise the little 338 may be the princess of the mediums but the true Prince is the 35 WHELEN.
The 375 H&H may be the queen of the mediums and the 40s and over the kings of big game but the 35 Whelen will always be the PRINCE.

The prissy little princess 338 can now stay home in the parlour pondering past glory and give the bigger brother Whelen the crown she stole with her lies.
The new Whelen disciples are now singing the praises of the prince of the mediums, the WHELEN and putting the queen of lies back in the cupboards to languish in darkness forever.
Yes there will still be those that continue to believe her lies and use it like @CoElkHunter and others but we will forgive them their treachery and continue to try and educate them.
A cartridge doesn't need a belt, breath fire and noise while beating you silly to try and prove it is good.
A belt less, gently spoken cartridge that carries a big stick, gets the job done without fuss or fanfare is far better. Hence the Whelen.
And so endeth the lesson
Bob

 

[BFaucett]

@BFaucett
BobF
Then along came some big bastard Australian that discovered modern loading for the Whelen and bought it into the 21 century with velocities it was supposed to have had from the start.
These new loads gave the 338 wimpchester a shake up that it can never recover from and put it back in its place ,2nd place that is.
This discovery had the angels up in arms as they thought they were being cheated. But upon reflection these angels came to the realisation that they had backed the wrong horse all along and asked for forgiveness of the great messer's Howe and Whelen.
They discovered Winchester had spoken with the forked tongue of the serpent and lied to the people telling them the 338,270 and 243 were great.
These same angels are now singing the praises of the mighty Whelen and those in the know are now singing from the same hymn book because they realise the little 338 may be the princess of the mediums but the true Prince is the 35 WHELEN.
The 375 H&H may be the queen of the mediums and the 40s and over the kings of big game but the 35 Whelen will always be the PRINCE.

The prissy little princess 338 can now stay home in the parlour pondering past glory and give the bigger brother Whelen the crown she stole with her lies.

The new Whelen disciples are now singing the praises of the prince of the mediums, the WHELEN and putting the queen of lies back in the cupboards to languish in darkness forever.​

Yes there will still be those that continue to believe her lies and use it like @CoElkHunter and others but we will forgive them their treachery and continue to try and educate them.
A cartridge doesn't need a belt, breath fire and noise while beating you silly to try and prove it is good.
A belt less, gently spoken cartridge that carries a big stick, gets the job done without fuss or fanfare is far better. Hence the Whelen.
And so endeth the lesson
Bob

 

[Hedge774]

I was looking at a new T/C Encore earlier today in 35 Whelen. I just wish that they would stretch out the 20" barrel option. Thoughts?

 

[Deepfork]

I have been a fan of the 338WM for 40 years and will always have a couple in the safe. Just started working with the 35 Whelen a couple of years ago. Here are my go to loads:

35 Whelen
25in 1/12 barrel
245gr Hammer Stone Hammer @ 2862 FPS
Energy at the muzzle 4,450 ft lbs

At 600 yards 1,720fps and 1,600 ft lbs


338WM
24in 1/10
213gr Hammer Hunter @ 3045 FPS
Energy at the muzzle 4,290 Ft lbs

At 600 yards 2,120fps and 2,055 ft lbs

So there, in my world with my loads the the .35 Whelen wins at short to med range, plains game 250yds and closer.

338WM wins for long range, western US mostly mule deer and Elk where 200 yards would be a close shot.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@BFaucett
Love the reply BobF
I get the same thing from @CoElkHunter
You 338 owners have no sense of humour.
When will y'all realise the Whelen is BETTER than the 338
Preaching to the choir is easy but preaching to the unbelievers and naysayers is hard work.
One thing tho at least owning a 338 you leave plenty of 358 stuff for us.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I was looking at a new T/C Encore earlier today in 35 Whelen. I just wish that they would stretch out the 20" barrel option. Thoughts?

@Hedge774
Even with the 29" tube the Whelen is a mighty cartridge.
Have you looked at the CVA single shot with a 25" tube. My mate Greg had one and it was very accurate. It was one rifle he regretted selling
Bob