Working the bolt

[DaddyFlip]

That video was great; "The loudest sound in Africa... CLICK!"

 

[Wildwillalaska]

I’d say sort out what rifle you will use as early as possible and then play with it often. Practice at the range to a comfortable level of proficiency, then some more to a solid level of confidence. Then play with the rifle at home. As you pass by your gun room or safe, stop, pick it up, ru the bolt with authority, practice the shot dry firing, and immediate run the bolt with authority to practice the muscle memory of prompt reload. Dry fire and repeat. Decock, put it away until the next time you walk by.

It’s fun, takes literally insignificant time, and provides great repetition regularly leading up to your departure.

I’m a bolt palm guy as well. Many of my rifles you could run as a bolt grabber, some you can’t. Every single one of them you can run with a palm perfectly. And do it with authority. Palm it back till it stops and only then do you palm with authority forward. I actually impart some residual upward force the whole back stroke, so as I life the bolt with my palm, I’m already imparting backward force where the bolt naturally comes back fast as soon is its mechanically able, and the whole stroke back my palm is imparting that slight upward force too, once it hits the back of the stroke, my hand immediately thrusts forward, and on that forward stroke, my palm is now imparting downward force as well, making the bolt fold into battery as soon as mechanically possible. It’s smooth and when practiced, super fast and failproof as any process would allow.

Now I’m also that weirdo who might sit on the couch for a moment in the evening with the rifle and go through that dry fire scenario from seated position, in part to just have some fun practice, but also allows you to get some of the muscle memory for the mechanics in less than optimal or even simply different position. If you find any impingement in how fluid and flawless your movements are, sort why and what it is about the position that caused it, and adjust. Your first shot should be from sticks and with proper breath and trigger control and as perfect as possible. Follow ups can be fast and from differing positions, so practicing running your rifle in various stances isn’t silly, it’s decent practice and fun as well.

Your rifle should be as natural as typing a text or operating your truck, just like you shouldn’t fumble trying to start your vehicle, you shouldn’t fumble with any aspect of running your rifle.

Lastly, don’t wait for your PH to say reload…run your damn rifle. It should be back in battery before the PH can say reload. Obviously place it on safety if not firing again. And if appropriate, top off the magazine…but those are both things to consider after you run the rifle and have it back into battery.

I typically let me PH know he doesn’t need to tell me to reload or to shoot again. I didn’t carry this heavy ammo box all the way from Alaska for the heck of it. I intend to shoot, and I don’t like to stand around to see if 1 shot was plenty…on dangerous game it isn’t if you can still see the animal above the grass. So I always, always, always reload immediately and if I can see the animal, I poke another hole. So I let them know it’s more important to tell me not to shoot again if that’s what you want, otherwise I’m firing a 2nd and if necessary 3rd and 4th shot. I don’t get bent if they tell me to reload..if anything chuckle if I’m already there…I think it’s hard for them not to say it as it’s something from habit for them to say every time. Just like telling us to put your rifle on safety. You shouldn’t have to be told, but it’s a smart and safe practice to remind folks, especially if they are not longtime hunters or even caught up in the excitement.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Thanks for that. Exactly the same as my method of cycling followup shots explained in my first post. Who are these two fellas? Obviously pros given their uniforms. Seems they're also not big fans of magnum length actions.

Edit: Apparently they are staff at Southern Africa Wildlife College for training PHs.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I’d say sort out what rifle you will use as early as possible and then play with it often. Practice at the range to a comfortable level of proficiency, then some more to a solid level of confidence. Then play with the rifle at home. As you pass by your gun room or safe, stop, pick it up, ru the bolt with authority, practice the shot dry firing, and immediate run the bolt with authority to practice the muscle memory of prompt reload. Dry fire and repeat. Decock, put it away until the next time you walk by.

It’s fun, takes literally insignificant time, and provides great repetition regularly leading up to your departure.

I’m a bolt palm guy as well. Many of my rifles you could run as a bolt grabber, some you can’t. Every single one of them you can run with a palm perfectly. And do it with authority. Palm it back till it stops and only then do you palm with authority forward. I actually impart some residual upward force the whole back stroke, so as I life the bolt with my palm, I’m already imparting backward force where the bolt naturally comes back fast as soon is its mechanically able, and the whole stroke back my palm is imparting that slight upward force too, once it hits the back of the stroke, my hand immediately thrusts forward, and on that forward stroke, my palm is now imparting downward force as well, making the bolt fold into battery as soon as mechanically possible. It’s smooth and when practiced, super fast and failproof as any process would allow.

Now I’m also that weirdo who might sit on the couch for a moment in the evening with the rifle and go through that dry fire scenario from seated position, in part to just have some fun practice, but also allows you to get some of the muscle memory for the mechanics in less than optimal or even simply different position. If you find any impingement in how fluid and flawless your movements are, sort why and what it is about the position that caused it, and adjust. Your first shot should be from sticks and with proper breath and trigger control and as perfect as possible. Follow ups can be fast and from differing positions, so practicing running your rifle in various stances isn’t silly, it’s decent practice and fun as well.

Your rifle should be as natural as typing a text or operating your truck, just like you shouldn’t fumble trying to start your vehicle, you shouldn’t fumble with any aspect of running your rifle.

Lastly, don’t wait for your PH to say reload…run your damn rifle. It should be back in battery before the PH can say reload. Obviously place it on safety if not firing again. And if appropriate, top off the magazine…but those are both things to consider after you run the rifle and have it back into battery.

I typically let me PH know he doesn’t need to tell me to reload or to shoot again. I didn’t carry this heavy ammo box all the way from Alaska for the heck of it. I intend to shoot, and I don’t like to stand around to see if 1 shot was plenty…on dangerous game it isn’t if you can still see the animal above the grass. So I always, always, always reload immediately and if I can see the animal, I poke another hole. So I let them know it’s more important to tell me not to shoot again if that’s what you want, otherwise I’m firing a 2nd and if necessary 3rd and 4th shot. I don’t get bent if they tell me to reload..if anything chuckle if I’m already there…I think it’s hard for them not to say it as it’s something from habit for them to say every time. Just like telling us to put your rifle on safety. You shouldn’t have to be told, but it’s a smart and safe practice to remind folks, especially if they are not longtime hunters or even caught up in the excitement.

The PH has a safety routine that is trained to be instinctive. I don't have a problem with him telling me to reload. Sure, I've been hunting sixty years so I know enough to do it without being reminded. But I'll let him do his job. I can't imagine telling him how to do it.

 

[Sideshow]

I palm my bolt.

I have a CZ 550 and took it to my gunsmith in an effort to make the bolt handle less sharp around the edges of the hole.

He is an excellent gunsmith, but he just couldn't "get" the way that I work a bolt.

He used his fingers and couldn't understand why I used my palm.

I ended up just using it the way it was, and everything worked out just fine.


Didn't have time to find another "smith"

Yeah have to agree with you that hole is a pain. If had the one on my 602 filled.

 

[R eight]

I keep the rifle on my shoulder. I don’t know if that’s the proper etiquette…but it works for me. The rifle in the video wasn’t mine…but it’s in 500 Jeffery.

The R8 is a wee bit quicker but not much.

 

[Tdruck]

I really like that video! Thank you. I have no problem coming off the shoulder and getting back to it quickly. It's nice to hear it from the experts. I'm not sure who those guys are but it makes sense. "The loudest sound in Africa" Yikes!

What I was seeing in a lot of hunting videos is was the hunter coming way down to his or her side and struggling with it.

 

[uplander01]

I wouldn't add much to this thread as there has been much good advice. The only thing I would is the process that I use to ensure the rifle and I are on the same page for safari. This is the leading up to the hunt training sessions. I only train and shoot the rifle I am taking with me for the last 60-90 days leading up to departure, while maintaining the same practice schedule- once a week. This is my last step in creating muscle memory for that particular rifle. In the USA we all kinda think that having lots of guns is better, I'm not going to argue with that but as the old saying goes-----"Beware the man with 1 rifle". I like to try and incorporate that mentality into my rifle choice solidly leading up to a hunt.

 

[BryceM]

I will just add that it is always interesting to look at videos of yourself in a hunting situation. Every time I do, I’m surprised that I took much longer to do everything than I remember, acquiring the animal in the scope, taking the shot, reloading, getting ready for a follow up shot, all of this takes more time in actuality than it did in my head. The only remedy to this is practice, practice, practice.

 

[Philip Glass]

Just a discussion...
As I get close to my first trip to Africa, I watch buffalo hunting videos every day. I watched one yesterday where the hunter using a heavy recoiling cartridge had to go to work on adrenalin crazed, heart shot, charging buffalo and he handled the bolt rifle like an expert. And put 4 accurate shots in him very fast.
But that seems to be the exception, I see a good number of hunters in the videos struggle with the bolt on their magazine rifles. Some jamb things up from what must be a short stroke. Some seem like they aren't a 100% comfortable with the mechanics of their rifle art all. Some put the rifle all the way down to their hip to cycle the bolt, like the physical weight of the rifle effects their ability to cycle the action. Many struggle to refill the magazine and hand the rifle to the PH to refill.

My first thought is that I don't want that to happen to me. Facing a cape buffalo or elephant would certainly have an effect on a hunter. Especially a first timer like me! Of course I don't yet know what that is like and I'm not being critical of anyone. Just making an observation. Obviously anything can happen, to anyone and the best of rifles and ammo.

I have live fired and dry fired both the model 70 and my Mark V plains game rifle as fast as I can accurately shoot. And do so regularly, especially with the .416 . Neither rifle has failed once. The model 70 bolt handle is pretty close to the scope when working it fast, I have knocked my hand off the bolt on the scope, but can recover quickly. The Mark V keeps your hand away from the scope a little better. I'd maybe give the edge to the Weatherby on speed and reacquiring the target, but it also has less recoil.

I feel like under stress, the most subconscious and automatic thing for me is handling the rifle. I've been shooting a lot with a model 70 .416. Part of each session is some quick follow up shots. I might fumble a bit trying to keep the empties from hitting the concrete floor to hard. But otherwise the rifles cycle great.

Am I seeing videos where hunters haven't practiced enough? Do some brands not cycle well. Is it Buffalo fever? Is it too much recoil? Are the long throws of the magnum length actions messing some people up?



TD

Yes and yes. One of those super fast videos that I think I shared was an R8 and that was fast. The guy put 3 or 4 shots in the buff super quick. I think it was a CMS safari.
I get made fun of for saying we should all go to the range and try to break our DG rifles. I've had a problem with a charging animal and though it was not my fault it would have been better to know what that gun would do when worked super hard.
Practice, practice, practice. And I don't mean sitting at the bench loading each cartridge gently by hand!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I'm an advocate of "accuracy trumps speed." I see too many videos of hunters (and a few PHs) with double rifles rattling off the second shot too fast and either missing the animal entirely or hitting it poorly. Then trying to reload in a stressful situation. Yes, I pull my bolt gun down to reload so I can visually "putz around" assessing how the animal reacts. And if there's more than one animal, how the rest are reacting. I don't want to shoot the wrong one. If it's heading toward an open spot in the brush, then I'll put my aim there and wait for the shot. Also, I think if the hunter is pre-psyched to a I-gotta-be-fast mentality, he is more likely to mess up cycling for followup shots. Being aware is more important than being fast.

 

[C.W. Richter]

No issues ever using this setup (incl. a number of shoot-on-the-move elephant at 300+ yds!) 'Have also found that the Nissan's absorb recoil better. Practice. *Short-stroking the longer bolts is a real issue (on follow-ups.) 'Had it happen with a .416 and luckily my Son's backing shot did the trick. The fewer the guns (you practice/hunt with) the better!!!

 

[AckleyHunter]

Some put the rifle all the way down to their hip to cycle the bolt

Several have talked about this, but another thing to consider is action length and length of pull. A h&h length action and short lop mean the end of the bolt might hit you in the face if you leave the rifle shouldered.

 

[roklok]

I disagree. Everyone has a different shooting style. I grab the bolt. I’ve never knocked my hand into scope. Every PH I hunt with makes a comment a reload very quickly.

If I hunted more with a scoped CZ with a very high bolt throw I might agree it a necessary skill, but I see no need for this palm technique opposed to my own on other rifles.

Yep, also strongly disagree. I also grab the bolt as previously stated. But, you know the saying about opinions and backside orifices. Palming vs grabbing, on the shoulder vs not, etc. Whatever works for you become proficient with that method. Who am I or anybody for that matter to tell someone they are wrong if it works. I grab the bolt, and run it from the shoulder. I am by no means comparing myself to a PH, but York Mare does a great job at the 49 minute mark in this video with his 458 running the bolt as I do, grabbing the knob and running it while on the shoulder.

 

[DaddyFlip]

Yep, also strongly disagree. I also grab the bolt as previously stated. But, you know the saying about opinions and backside orifices. Palming vs grabbing, on the shoulder vs not, etc. Whatever works for you become proficient with that method. Who am I or anybody for that matter to tell someone they are wrong if it works. I grab the bolt, and run it from the shoulder. I am by no means comparing myself to a PH, but York Mare does a great job at the 49 minute mark in this video with his 458 running the bolt as I do, grabbing the knob and running it while on the shoulder.

Couple of observations: (1) PH runs the bolt with AUTHORITY on the grab; the average/occasional hunter we see in videos does not. (2) PH has no scope to interfere with the grab; average/occasional video hunters are usually/always sporting a scope.

Off topic: Am I wrong to observe that the shoulder shot advice or the shooting was suboptimal? Close range, six shots on the hoof and two finishers? Spray and pray? I'm not an elephant hunter.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My method is not 100% palming as shown in the SAWC video. As they demonstrate, I trap the bolt knob between the crook of my little finger and side of palm when opening the chamber and drawing the bolt, but I do not flare my fingers and thumb to close the bolt. I see no point in that, except maybe dramatic style flare. The bolt knob is already nearly in the pocket of palm when the bolt is all the way back. Simply finish the job rolling the knob a fraction of an inch into the pocket, leaving my fingers where they are, and close the bolt. If the curled fingers don't hit anything when the bolt is opened, they aren't going to hit anything when it's closed. Flaring the digits does nothing except make the palm flatter which could possibly make it easier to lose a grip on the bolt handle. It's just extra motion/effort that's unnecessary. I do not see any advantage to extra unnecessary effort, however small, when responding to a stressful situation.

I should add that both my African rifles (PG and DGR) have low mounted scopes and I have no trouble cycling them quickly with this method. The DGR 404's scope only has paper thickness clearance from bolt handle (I actually had to polish some metal off the bolt handle for complete clearance as it initially just grazed the front edge of scope's ocular bell).

 

[roklok]

I believe this elephant had just crossed into the huntable area, and if it made it back across the river it would be unretrievable. I am not going to second guess the advice or shooting on the part of the PH. They had to make sure the elephant did not go far. A brain shot was probably deemed risky with a client hunter with an open sighted double with elephant so close border. The shots were effective, as the elephant did not make it far. Certainly did not look like "spray and pray" to me.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Several have talked about this, but another thing to consider is action length and length of pull. A h&h length action and short lop mean the end of the bolt might hit you in the face if you leave the rifle shouldered.

The instructors in the SAWC video demonstrate this potential issue very clearly. A bit of a language barrier led me to initially believe they favored standard action over magnum length. Watching it a second time it is clear they are pointing to potential issues associated with magnum actions, not disapproving them. The first being cycling from the shoulder can put the longer bolt in the face. If not hitting the shooter's face, it certainly obstructs his view at least temporarily. The other possible problem being hunters (particularly European hunters according to the video) who routinely hunt with standard action rifles may be prone to short stroking a magnum action when they get to Africa, especially in stressful situations. I am at an advantage because I don't have to swap familiarity. Both my hunting rifles, deer/plains game and DGR, have essentially the same length action and bolt draw. Another plus for building a 404 Jeffery!

 

[DaddyFlip]

I believe this elephant had just crossed into the huntable area, and if it made it back across the river it would be unretrievable. I am not going to second guess the advice or shooting on the part of the PH. They had to make sure the elephant did not go far. A brain shot was probably deemed risky with a client hunter with an open sighted double with elephant so close border. The shots were effective, as the elephant did not make it far. Certainly did not look like "spray and pray" to me.

I did not mean to imply there was no plan or the plan was wrong. Then the PH decided it best to anchor the animal in place with the shoulder shot. It looked like the client's first shot hit a little low and the animal was able to spin wildly, making follow ups a chance affair of getting shots on the target 'somewhere'. Thank you for the context of location.

 

[BryceM]

Even big bores are puny when considering an animal of this size. Only a brain shot will incapacitate them immediately. With failing light, at that range, a shoulder shot was the best option in that situation. He did turn and look, briefly, but not squarely. An angled headshot at that range is risky business.

My one and only elephant took two solids to the chest at 20 yards and turned and walked off like nothing happened. They are effective, but it takes time. He made it about 100 yards where we found him very dead.

“Pray and spray” is not at all accurate. I saw a hunter and PH both making effective shots in a fluid situation.