Why no lever-action rifle for Elephants?

[TOBY458]

Im pretty sure the Browning blr is a crf..... don't know for certain tho

No sir. I'm not aware of any lever gun that's CRF. Take a look at the BLR bolt face here. It works much like the rotating bolt head on an AR15...

 

[leslie hetrick]

i would not make a big deal out of not being CRF, keep your rifle clean and use good ammo that was checked for feeding before the hunt. by the way what to you call a double barreled rifle, fumble fingers feed. he,he.

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

i would not make a big deal out of not being CRF, keep your rifle clean and use good ammo that was checked for feeding before the hunt. by the way what to you call a double barreled rifle, fumble fingers feed. he,he.

it shouldn't be a problem if it was manufactured correctly

 

[tarbe]

55k psi....for real?

My Browning M71 should be back from the 'smith real soon...punched out to .348 Ackley Improved.

250gr at 2,500 (24" barrel) might be realized. I was safely shooting them at 2,300 from the standard configuration.

 

[sestoppelman]

55k psi....for real?

My Browning M71 should be back from the 'smith real soon...punched out to .348 Ackley Improved.

250gr at 2,500 (24" barrel) might be realized. I was safely shooting them at 2,300 from the standard configuration.

That will hurt on both ends. Hope you have a nice pad on it. The Brownings are nice rifles.

 

[tarbe]

Oh, and the M71 is CRF. It will feed from the tube completely upside down!

Go to 7:17 in the video below:

 

[tarbe]

That will hurt on both ends. Hope you have a nice pad on it. The Brownings are nice rifles.

Just the factory steel butt plate. It is not uncomfortable at all at 250/2,300.

 

[7x57Joe]

The Savage model 99 is controlled round feed but, I don't think I want to take on an elephant with mine.

 

[TTundra]

Have a m71 being built by Turnbull now to 50-110. Planning on loads making it quite the stopper and bringing it overseas in 2023

 

[krish]

@tarbe I may be wrong on 55k psi for modern browning model 71. Cant find the article. May be 45k. But sure remember reading 6000ft/lb muzle energy. Will keep looking for that article.
Congratulations on your Model 71.

 

[tarbe]

@tarbe I may be wrong on 55k psi for modern browning model 71. Cant find the article. May be 45k. But sure remember reading 6000ft/lb muzle energy. Will keep looking for that article.
Congratulations on your Model 71.

I promise I won't blow it up!

 

[spike.t]

So the big question is whether you can get the lever action to feed as a CRF?
Otherwise it’s basically a PF and we all know the “facts” surrounding PF for a DG hunt...

CRF.....PF...sounds more like political parties........

 

[457121]

Have a m71 being built by Turnbull now to 50-110. Planning on loads making it quite the stopper and bringing it overseas in 2023

I have a Browning 1886 built into a 50-110 WCF. I've had it for about 20 years now. I enjoy it very much.

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

I have a Browning 1886 built into a 50-110 WCF. I've had it for about 20 years now. I enjoy it very much.

how's the recoil with it

 

[457121]

how's the recoil with it

Depends on how you load it of course. The rifle has a crescent butt so it can get wicked with heavier bullets at higher velocities. I use a home made shoulder pad made from an old pair of jeans with sewn in baffles and filled with sand. That tames those sharp edges. Hodgdon 50 Alaskan load data is what I've used. The 50 Alaskan and 50-110 WCF are the same case (2.1" vs. 2.4") and interchange much like a .38 Special and .357 Mag does in a handgun. My rifle has a 26" barrel so it gets a bit more velocity than the 22" barrel used in Hodgdon's data. You can drive 500 gr. bullets over 2000 fps at only 35,000 CUP. My main two loads are 325gr. cast bullet at 2000 fps or a 475gr. cast bullet at 1850 fps. There's a guy on The Reloaders Network and youtube who goes by the name Leverguns 50. He has a Winchester 1886 tang safety reproduction converted to 50-110 WCF and he loads up to around 48K-50K psi. He easily duplicates or exceeds .458 Win Mag ballistics.

 

[tarbe]

There's a guy on The Reloaders Network and youtube who goes by the name Leverguns 50. He has a Winchester 1886 tang safety reproduction converted to 50-110 WCF and he loads up to around 48K-50K psi. He easily duplicates or exceeds .458 Win Mag ballistics.

That's one of his videos I embedded in a post above.

 

[Tam Dl]

The 1886, Win 1895, both have controlled round feed to some extent. The 1895 being an actual military rifle in the trenches.

The whole argument against CRF is kinda obsolete at this point, can anyone explain what is the advantage to push feed? The world has moved on in manufacturing. Basically the model 700 came up with a clever design where the action was not inherently more accurate than some other designs, but it was vastly easier to index into a conventional lathe so that you could blueprint it. This was a key to superior accuracy. It is basically irrelevant in the modern world where CNC manufacturing can make any action to the same tolerances. They don't have to look like a tube. There will still be stiffer types and types more ideally suited to accuracy. Today you can get super grade accuracy actions in series where controlled round feed is just one of the options. Or if one is on a budget, good M98 actions are still relatively thick on the ground.

In addition, there are a number of new CRF actions being designed all the time, that use different principles for CRF that are potentially more conducive to high levels of accuracy and reliability. I don't at this point see an advantage to having a manually operated action without the reliability features that are battle proven if there is no downside to having those features. And currently there isn't.

In the case of lever action stopping rifles hyper accuracy is not an objective anyway. It isn't as though I need to choose a lever action type just so I can send it off to a local gunsmith to be worked on and blueprinted. Some of the modern lever guns deliver bolt action accuracy out of the box, but that is not the main reason for owning them. If 3 MOA was a classic prescription in the past, a lot of levers offer 1MOA for 3 round groups. Even if you shot 5 rounds, they are not going to open up to anything like 3 inches. More than good enough. I just bought a Chiappa and the action is CNC milled, even at that price point. Probably the case for the Winchesters also. We are producing lever guns to standards that the original Model 700s only used to meet after a visit to the smith.

 

[Tam Dl]

Have a m71 being built by Turnbull now to 50-110. Planning on loads making it quite the stopper and bringing it overseas in 2023

That is a project I have been interested in getting into for some time myself, but it is a lot harder to find anyone who can do it in Canada. If I was in the US and was using Turnbull, therefore getting resupplies of stuff like properly marked brass would not require a lawyer , I would be interested in the 470 as it completes the loop by having a bullet of sufficient sectional density, weight, and pushed at sufficient velocity, according to the commonly accepted principles.

 

[bruce moulds]

one of the things a turnbolt has over a lever is the power of primary extraction.
should something go wrong with tight fired cases, the probability of getting them out of the chamber is far greater in a turnbolt.
bruce.

 

[crs]

"He has a Winchester 1886 tang safety reproduction converted to 50-110 WCF and he loads up to around 48K-50K psi. He easily duplicates or exceeds .458 Win Mag ballistics."
And that 1886 with a 26 inch barrel will weigh close to 10 pounds (like my 45-90 does) and that soaks up some of the recoil. My 450 grain Kodiak loads at 2150 fps generated less than 40,000 psi in my
45-90 per Grizzly Cartridge who loaded them.

"He easily duplicates or exceeds .458 Win Mag ballistics." it seems that this has been said and proven many times, but no one believes it- maybe because the 30-30 is the only lever gun that most folks know of. Oh well, their loss.