Why no lever-action rifle for Elephants?

Red Leg

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They make a long action BLR that would convert into a nice 458 or 375 ruger. My PH doesn't like the R8 Merkel after seeing a couple fail on DG hunts and he had to back up the clients. I don't know what the failure was but he was thinking of barring the R8 from his hunts.
One doesn’t see a lot of R8 Markels. I assume you are actually talking about the Blaser? Sort of like American politics, it is good to actually be informed on a subject before voicing criticism. I, like a lot of folks now, have used mine (Blaser R8) in Africa extensively. I have never had a jam and am unaware of any reported in the literature. You will find several others of us on this site who are equally experienced with the rifle. Who exactly is thinking about banning them? Where does he hunt? Considering the growing popularity of the rifle, due in large measure to its reliability, his business is going to take a hit.
 

Chago

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? Pretty much just the opposite. The higher the comb and thus straighter the stock, all other things being equal, a rifle has less muzzle climb and usually less perceived recoil. A problem with many earlier bolt actions and lever guns was the greater drop at heel resulting in a lower comb because the rifles were optimized for open sights. A heavy caliber Mauser from the thirties - or an early American SxS shotgun for that matter (the Brits had it figured out) - can be punishing due to that angled comb.

Yes we said the exact same thing. I used the wrong word calling it the comb. The comb is on the stock. I was referring to the top of the action as you had said is much higher to help align your eye faster. Having that difference in elevation from the cheek weld to the top of the action creates the vertical muzzle rise.
 

Red Leg

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Yes we said the exact same thing. I used the wrong word calling it the comb. The comb is on the stock. I was referring to the top of the action as you had said is much higher to help align your eye faster. Having that difference in elevation from the cheek weld to the top of the action creates the vertical muzzle rise.
Got it. We’re tracking.
 

One Day...

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Thought of you tigris115, when I saw that :)

upload_2020-1-19_21-36-52.png

https://www.africahunting.com/media/martin-and-osa-johnson-adventurers.7171/
 

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Quaticman

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Well this thread certainly brought out our finest...

There's a guy: @crs . He's into lever guns and knows about what it takes to get the job done on DG. He's got a headache from another thread right now, but after a few Aleve he might be able to help you.
In the meantime go read the .458 for buffalo thread from page 2 or 3 onward. Basically a .45-90 is longer than a .458 WM and can be loaded up to do good things. A .405 can use modern bullets and be impressive too. Don't recall if it's impressive enough for tembo.
In actual fact the .45/90 case is 2.4" in length while the .458 Win Mag case is 2.5" in length which gives it slightly more case capacity.
 

Forrest Halley

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In actual fact the .45/90 case is 2.4" in length while the .458 Win Mag case is 2.5" in length which gives it slightly more case capacity.
You're correct. I was mistaken. Apologies.
 

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The 457 wwg is a chambering offered by Wild West Guns out of Alaska. They lengthen the chamber of a Marlin 45/70 to add powder capacity, such that it can push a 350 grain bullet 2300fps, and 400 gr 2000fps. I have one that I have shot a black bear with very effectively. I am not planning on using it for elephant, but do think it would be capable of taking dangerous game. It is a lot of firepower in a compact 6.5 pound package.
 

crs

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Superdutch is right on.

I looked at that 457 WWG cartridge and determined that it was between a 45-70 and a 45-90. I still have the information in my .45-90 binder.
IMHO, the 457 WWG may be a step up a Marlin 45-70, but the 45-90 is the best step up for a Winchester 1886 rifle.
Remember that my 1886 45-90 shoots the Alaska Bulletworks 450 grain Kodiaks at 2150 fps.
 

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450 grains at 2150 is smoking! It is a significant step up from the 457!
Superdutch is right on.

I looked at that 457 WWG cartridge and determined that it was between a 45-70 and a 45-90. I still have the information in my .45-90 binder.
IMHO, the 457 WWG may be a step up a Marlin 45-70, but the 45-90 is the best step up for a Winchester 1886 rifle.
Remember that my 1886 45-90 shoots the Alaska Bulletworks 450 grain Kodiaks at 2150 fps.
 
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The 457 wwg is a chambering offered by Wild West Guns out of Alaska. They lengthen the chamber of a Marlin 45/70 to add powder capacity, such that it can push a 350 grain bullet 2300fps, and 400 gr 2000fps. I have one that I have shot a black bear with very effectively. I am not planning on tchtusing it for elephant, but do think it would be capable of taking dangerous game. It is a lot of firepower in a compact 6.5 pound package.
Superdutch
When they lengthen the chamber what mods do they do to get the longer cartridge to feed. If it's even a bit over length it won't fit the cartridge lifter. Just curious is all, sounds like o potent bit of gear
 

superdutch

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Superdutch
When they lengthen the chamber what mods do they do to get the longer cartridge to feed. If it's even a bit over length it won't fit the cartridge lifter. Just curious is all, sounds like o potent bit of gear

I can't specifically answer your question, but do know that it works! They go through it and do quite a list of modifications, including enlarging the ejection port, trigger tuning, etc. They say it can shoot .410 2.5 inch shot shells too, but I have not tried that. Mine is called the Co-Pilot model, it can be taken down and could probably fit in a brief case. It unscrews right between the forearm and the receiver.
 
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I can't specifically answer your question, but do know that it works! They go through it and do quite a list of modifications, including enlarging the ejection port, trigger tuning, etc. They say it can shoot .410 2.5 inch shot shells too, but I have not tried that. Mine is called the Co-Pilot model, it can be taken down and could probably fit in a brief case. It unscrews right between the forearm and the receiver.
Super Dutch
I think 2.5 inches is the recommended overall length of the 45/70 So I can't really see lengthening of the chamber to be a benefit unless it acts like freeboring to lower pressure of increased powder charges , similar to what weatherby does.
 

superdutch

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Bob, I think you miss read the post. The 457 case is longer than a 45-70 by I believe .1 of an inch allowing an increased powder charge. The enlarged chamber allow the rifle to shoot standard 45-70, commercially available .457WWG (loaded by Corbon with A-frames), and 2.5 inch .410 shotgun shells.
 
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Bob, I think you miss read the post. The 457 case is longer than a 45-70 by I believe .1 of an inch allowing an increased powder charge. The enlarged chamber allow the rifle to shoot standard 45-70, commercially available .457WWG (loaded by Corbon with A-frames), and 2.5 inch .410 shotgun shells.
Super Dutch
My apologies now I'm with the program.
 

Thumper Mcgee

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didn,t TR kill a ellie with a 95 winchester in .405?
Yes he only killed 1 with the 405. However their are multiple other people that have taken them with the caliber, id look at the vintage photos on this forum and see what you can find
 

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"One doesn’t see a lot of R8 Markels. I assume you are actually talking about the Blaser? Sort of like American politics, it is good to actually be informed on a subject before voicing criticism. I, like a lot of folks now, have used mine (Blaser R8) in Africa extensively. I have never had a jam and am unaware of any reported in the literature. You will find several others of us on this site who are equally experienced with the rifle. Who exactly is thinking about banning them? Where does he hunt? Considering the growing popularity of the rifle, due in large measure to its reliability, his business is going to take a hit."

Redleg, you are setting the bar far too high for some expecting accuracy, facts and knowledge.

Agenda driven fantasy is far more popular and results in many more likes.
 

krish

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So when it comes to elephant hunting, the big debate seems to be a bolt or double. However, I think there are benefits that the lever-action style rifle has over the other 2.

Not only would a lever-action rifle beat a double in ammo capacity, but it would also beat a bolt rifle in speed as you would only need to do 2 movements of the hand to reload instead of 4, making it better for tight situations. And while a double rifle can shoot 2 rounds as fast as the hunter needs them, it's still only w and a 4 barrel rifle would be grossly cumbersome.

So my question is this. Why has no-one made a lever-action rifle based specifically made for thick-skinned, big-boned dangerous game rounds? I know the 45-70 can be used for that sometimes, but from what I've read, it's more adept at NA dangerous game and not as recommended as something like a .458 or 500 NE.
Blr or 348 winchester (Browning or Shot show 2011 348 winchester) converted to 50-110 can handle it. It can handle 55000psi. Produce over 6000ft/lb with 500gr bullets.
 

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