Why doesn't the .500 Jeffery get the love of that the .505 Gibbs does on this forum?

[Pondoro]

Looks very rugged that one..

 

[grand veneur]

The .500 Jeffery seems like the eminently more practical cartridge since it can be built on a regular old long action receiver.
Plus, they seem to cost about $1000 less.
And ballistically, there isn't a dime's worth of difference.

Moderator, please correct the typo in the title. I don't think I can.

I cannot answer this question objectively because for more than 20 years I own a rifle caliber 500 Schüler that was built with an Mauser Magnum action and scoped with an Schmidt & Bender 1,25-4x20. Despite the very strong recoil of this approximately 10 Ibs rifle , I had never had any problems with the scope by shooting or hunting. I also have an Rigby style diopter on the rifle that I have never used when hunting. I am therefore very satisfied with this rifle.

I also had the opportunity to shoot with an old Mauser Magnum rifle caliber 505 Gibbs so that I can compare. In all cases , the rifle caliber 505 Gibbs shoots softer with the original load than the rifle caliber 500 jeffery with the original load. On the other side , the cartridge 500 Jeffery is because of their lesser capacity much easier to load than the cartridge 505 Gibbs.

For this reasons I rather recommend the cartridge 500 jeffery and if possible built in a rifle with an Mauser Magnum action. These rifles are more expensive , but apart from tradition and aesthetics , they last a lifetime and longer. I don't know if the same can be said about the serial rifles of this caliber.

 

[postoak]

so, kurpfalzjaeger - you are saying go with the .500 Jeffery but don't take advantage of the fact it will fit in a long action -- go magnum length? I suppose that is to get more reliable feeding. (?) Sounds like a good plan except for the cost.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I looked at this one just not sure if the base will interfere with the quick sight acquisition, I do like the protection it offers to the Ghost ring itself.

You can also order different size apertures which is great as I would go with the biggest one

A friend of mine has the NECG peep sight on his CZ 527 and I think it’s very fast. However I know for close range work it’s almost better to look down the barrel. I know it’s not the same rifle but it’s very similar.

 

[BRNO zkk602]

I looked at this one just not sure if the base will interfere with the quick sight acquisition, I do like the protection it offers to the Ghost ring itself.

You can also order different size apertures which is great as I would go with the biggest one

This is a great ghost ring I have 2 of them installed on my Brno zkk602’s, I also got the NECG fibre optic front sights so this combination is great. I filed down and rounded the edges and corners as they are quite sharp and I took the factory finish off and I did the poor mans colour case hardening by heating them up with a blowtorch and then dipping them in 2 stroke engine oil. Will load some pictures for you to see

 

[colorado]

I looked up the specs on the Sako. It weighs 9.9 pounds. I don't think I'd want to shoot a .500 Jeffery in that weight. A scope could get that to over 11 pounds, but what scopes have a track record for handling that kind of recoil? Any?

I have a Leupold 1.5-5x on my 500 Jeffery with Talley steel QR rings. It's held up well to over 400 full power loads. The scope and rings together only weighs about 18 oz. BTW I went with the 500 Jeffery because of the rim sized (I didn't feel the CZ in 505 Gibbs had enough bolt face diameter) and for the reduced recoil lol!

 

[Dr Ray]

We’ve never heard of it that’s why?
I’m joking !!

 

[colorado]

Well now you have! lol

 

[Shootist43]

IvW your recommendation of the Lynx Scope model LX3 1-6 x 24 with the German #4 Reticle and an illuminated dot sounds just about perfect to me. Do you know if they are available in the U.S.?

 

[IvW]

Not sure but I am sure you could arrange one next time you pass through...

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Shootist, if things are normal after lock down and forum members visit for hunting I can send you the scope with one of the forum members...just let me know if you need one, will be able to buy one here and send to you..

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Worthwhile mentioning the following : The .500 Jeffery( 12.7 x 70 mm Schuler is extremely accurate up to 200 yards ..probably the most accurate super bore available....It can be made to fit and cycle extremely well in a Mauser 98 action, a competent gunsmith like my friend Johan Greyling made a few .500 Jeffery rifles feed/cycle flawlessly of problem rifles refered to him to rectify their mistakes due to other gunsmiths build .500 Jeffery rifles on Mauser 98 actions as a request by hunters and develop feeding /cycling problems...Johan Greyling is a master on this... Reason why Johan Greyling chose to build the two most popular calibers the 404 Jeffery and the 8x68S calibers and not the .500 Jeffery is that Johan believe the ZZK602 action to be a great action to build a 500 Jeffery from the ground up..but not very common /available these days...
He also perceive building the 500 Jeffery in a magnum action to be the solution of ensure no cycling/feeding challenges....(single staggered magazine system )
Costs/availability of components/re-load components/brass is another factor to take in account when deciding to build such a heavy caliber....
Dedication: this is for sure a dedicated caliber..a brutal charge stopper..it was solely developed to be the most powerful caliber by Schuler company to be use in Africa for the thick skin dangerous game animals...
Schuler only used standard Mauser 98 actions available to his company since Rigby company has the sole contract as a British rifle build company with the German Mauser company to build on contract double square bridge Magnum actions for Rigby company...( I am sure every one knows this history)
Shuler therefor made use of a re-bate rim and a bottle neck cartridge to fit a standard Mauser 98 military action...
Shooting/handling the 500 Jeffery : Few hunters are able to really make this caliber rifle their choice for a dedicated hunting dangerous game rifle since there are other options in calibers choices that make more sense to hunt dangerous game with for a hunter only hunting maybe two trips for elephant in Africa...
It has a noticeable recoil when re-loaded tho the optimum performance on elephant ..be it as a charge stopper or hunting rifle...

Design flaws : 500 Jeffery rifles build from 1920 due to Schuler making his design available to any rifle manufacturing company lead to different specifications in manufacturers building the 500 Jeffery as requested by Dangerous Game hunters...
So not all ammo available that time fit in every 500 Jeffery of that time..
This challenge was taken up by Tony Sanchez Arino and a Great Gunsmith /rifle builder I think was Harold Wolf (stand to be corrected) standardised the new versions of 500 Jeffery caliber ...Tony Sanchez Arino wrote a a book available at Shakari Connection publishers, a great book to have for any dangerous game hunter reader...
Likely reason to have a 500 Jeffery :
Collector`s love the old collectable rifles
PH who like magazine charge stopper rifle
Hunter/collectors who like the huge .500 Jeffery `s ammo
Any one who like to point out to other hunters he really shoot a .500 Jeffery at Dangerous game shooting ranges...but do not tell them he is shooting reduced loads...
Since it is a real German designed caliber it tik all the boxes for me as great hunting rifle I expect my future PH to back me up while hunting an elephant with my 404 Jeffery hunting rifle that is everything the 500 Jeffery is not accept the inherited accuracy/the Jeffery name...

This is my take on the scenario of the 500 Jeffery being cot so popular ...on our forum...

My favorite choice being the 11.2 x 72 Schuler who was not taken over by Jeffery...Johan Greyling is the proud owner of this scarce caliber rifle..it is still one rifle I need to build myself ...just to have it ...
A link on the forum you can take a look :
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/harald-wolf-gunsmith.51606/

 

[grand veneur]

I also own a rifle caliber 11.2x72 built in 1923 by August Schüler.

The cartridge does not perform as expected because you have to set the bullet very deep otherwise the cartridge will not fit in the magazine. There are also almost no premium bullets. Only Woodleigh make a classic 401gr SP bullet. I cannot share Mr. Harald Wolf enthusiasm for this cartridge. It is an old-fashioned cartridge and a compromise to fit into a classic unmodified Mauser system , like the cartridge 10,75x68 but however larger and stronger. A rifle of this caliber is nowadays rather a collector's item.

Despite everything , I shot a buffalo with it.

 

[colorado]

Worthwhile mentioning the following : The .500 Jeffery( 12.7 x 70 mm Schuler is extremely accurate up to 200 yards ..probably the most accurate super bore available....It can be made to fit and cycle extremely well in a Mauser 98 action, a competent gunsmith like my friend Johan Greyling made a few .500 Jeffery rifles feed/cycle flawlessly of problem rifles refered to him to rectify their mistakes due to other gunsmiths build .500 Jeffery rifles on Mauser 98 actions as a request by hunters and develop feeding /cycling problems...Johan Greyling is a master on this... Reason why Johan Greyling chose to build the two most popular calibers the 404 Jeffery and the 8x68S calibers and not the .500 Jeffery is that Johan believe the ZZK602 action to be a great action to build a 500 Jeffery from the ground up..but not very common /available these days...
He also perceive building the 500 Jeffery in a magnum action to be the solution of ensure no cycling/feeding challenges....(single staggered magazine system )
Costs/availability of components/re-load components/brass is another factor to take in account when deciding to build such a heavy caliber....
Dedication: this is for sure a dedicated caliber..a brutal charge stopper..it was solely developed to be the most powerful caliber by Schuler company to be use in Africa for the thick skin dangerous game animals...
Schuler only used standard Mauser 98 actions available to his company since Rigby company has the sole contract as a British rifle build company with the German Mauser company to build on contract double square bridge Magnum actions for Rigby company...( I am sure every one knows this history)
Shuler therefor made use of a re-bate rim and a bottle neck cartridge to fit a standard Mauser 98 military action...
Shooting/handling the 500 Jeffery : Few hunters are able to really make this caliber rifle their choice for a dedicated hunting dangerous game rifle since there are other options in calibers choices that make more sense to hunt dangerous game with for a hunter only hunting maybe two trips for elephant in Africa...
It has a noticeable recoil when re-loaded tho the optimum performance on elephant ..be it as a charge stopper or hunting rifle...

Design flaws : 500 Jeffery rifles build from 1920 due to Schuler making his design available to any rifle manufacturing company lead to different specifications in manufacturers building the 500 Jeffery as requested by Dangerous Game hunters...
So not all ammo available that time fit in every 500 Jeffery of that time..
This challenge was taken up by Tony Sanchez Arino and a Great Gunsmith /rifle builder I think was Harold Wolf (stand to be corrected) standardised the new versions of 500 Jeffery caliber ...Tony Sanchez Arino wrote a a book available at Shakari Connection publishers, a great book to have for any dangerous game hunter reader...
Likely reason to have a 500 Jeffery :
Collector`s love the old collectable rifles
PH who like magazine charge stopper rifle
Hunter/collectors who like the huge .500 Jeffery `s ammo
Any one who like to point out to other hunters he really shoot a .500 Jeffery at Dangerous game shooting ranges...but do not tell them he is shooting reduced loads...
Since it is a real German designed caliber it tik all the boxes for me as great hunting rifle I expect my future PH to back me up while hunting an elephant with my 404 Jeffery hunting rifle that is everything the 500 Jeffery is not accept the inherited accuracy/the Jeffery name...

This is my take on the scenario of the 500 Jeffery being cot so popular ...on our forum...

My favorite choice being the 11.2 x 72 Schuler who was not taken over by Jeffery...Johan Greyling is the proud owner of this scarce caliber rifle..it is still one rifle I need to build myself ...just to have it ...
A link on the forum you can take a look :
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/harald-wolf-gunsmith.51606/

Nice! I love my 500 Jeffery it's my favorite rifle to shoot (offhand). I tried using reduced loads, but after two hangfires at the range only shoot full power loads. 570g TSX at 2300 fps.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I also own a rifle caliber 11.2x72 built in 1923 by August Schüler.

The cartridge does not perform as expected because you have to set the bullet very deep otherwise the cartridge will not fit in the magazine. There are also almost no premium bullets. Only Woodleigh make a classic 401gr SP bullet. I cannot share Mr. Harald Wolf enthusiasm for this cartridge. It is an old-fashioned cartridge and a compromise to fit into a classic unmodified Mauser system , like the cartridge 10,75x68 but however larger and stronger. A rifle of this caliber is nowadays rather a collector's item.

Despite everything , I shot a buffalo with it.

Thank you kindly for this info it is much appreciated kurpfalzjäger....yes I agree , if this caliber/all the Schuler calibers was build onto a magnum action I am sure the muzzle velocity of the Schuler Mausers would have been noticed by the rifle world..larger chambers /real magnum brass would have been part of the design..just take the .416 Rigby as an example ...the huge brass developed for it due to the magnum action it was build on...as always there is a trade-of ...more expensive than the 404 Jeffery ....
If I build the 11.2 x 72 I would ask Passific Tool/reamers to manufacture the reamer to a length of 73mm brass so I can fire form brass from the 404 Jeffery caliber brass....there was a time when just after the 10.75 x 73 Schuler was designed Schuler designed a Magnum version of the 10.75 x 73 ...I still have info somewhere about this 10.75 x 73 Magnum version ....
I will use the BRNO ZZK 602 action to build the 11.2 x 73 Schuler version...

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Nice! I love my 500 Jeffery it's my favorite rifle to shoot (offhand). I tried using reduced loads, but after two hangfires at the range only shoot full power loads. 570g TSX at 2300 fps.

All real .500 Jeffery owners loves their rifles...since they used/handled them a lot , learn the best technique to shoot it..I noticed a few 500 Jeffery rifles came up for sale here in South Africa...I suspect a possibility of feeding /cycling difficulties...Colorado, how fast can you cycle your 3 rounds through the magazine and chamber???

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I also own a rifle caliber 11.2x72 built in 1923 by August Schüler.

The cartridge does not perform as expected because you have to set the bullet very deep otherwise the cartridge will not fit in the magazine. There are also almost no premium bullets. Only Woodleigh make a classic 401gr SP bullet. I cannot share Mr. Harald Wolf enthusiasm for this cartridge. It is an old-fashioned cartridge and a compromise to fit into a classic unmodified Mauser system , like the cartridge 10,75x68 but however larger and stronger. A rifle of this caliber is nowadays rather a collector's item.

Despite everything , I shot a buffalo with it.

If you like I would ask Hansie Minnaar, owner of Stewart Core bonded bullets to draw some brass and make great quality bullets for your 11.2 x 72 caliber rifle ....these bullets and drawn brass is excellent quality..Hansie made drawn brass /bullets for my Martini Henry as well as for my 1871 Mauser as well as the 345 gn bullets for the 71 Mauser...

 

[grand veneur]

Thank you kindly for this info it is much appreciated kurpfalzjäger....yes I agree , if this caliber/all the Schuler calibers was build onto a magnum action I am sure the muzzle velocity of the Schuler Mausers would have been noticed by the rifle world..larger chambers /real magnum brass would have been part of the design..just take the .416 Rigby as an example ...the huge brass developed for it due to the magnum action it was build on...as always there is a trade-of ...more expensive than the 404 Jeffery ....
If I build the 11.2 x 72 I would ask Passific Tool/reamers to manufacture the reamer to a length of 73mm brass so I can fire form brass from the 404 Jeffery caliber brass....there was a time when just after the 10.75 x 73 Schuler was designed Schuler designed a Magnum version of the 10.75 x 73 ...I still have info somewhere about this 10.75 x 73 Magnum version ....
I will use the BRNO ZZK 602 action to build the 11.2 x 73 Schuler version...

Do you mean the cartridge 404 Magnum Schüler ?

This cartridge is a mystery and nobody knows whether a rifle was ever made for it. A well-known gunsmith from Suhl/Germany , where also August Schüler worked , tried to find out something about this cartridge after the collapse of the GDR. The information is sparse , but the dimensions of this cartridge could be very close to those of the large Weatherby cartridges. The performance of this cartridge would then be that of the 416 WBY Magnum. An attempt was made to replicate such a cartridge and also a rifle was built for it. The dimensions were only guesswork , and that was only an experiment.

 

[grand veneur]

If you like I would ask Hansie Minnaar, owner of Stewart Core bonded bullets to draw some brass and make great quality bullets for your 11.2 x 72 caliber rifle ....these bullets and drawn brass is excellent quality..Hansie made drawn brass /bullets for my Martini Henry as well as for my 1871 Mauser as well as the 345 gn bullets for the 71 Mauser...

Thank you very much.

I have a lot of brass from Wolfgang Romey. The problem are the bullets , but the DEGOL company in Belgium could also manufacture bullets to order.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I wanted to buy a barreled action from this person who had the reamer and head space dies/dies for this 404 Jeffery Magnum ...but is is too expensive with our weak South African currency , here is some info I got from a friend in Austria /Germany who knows the owner who possess the 404 Jeffery Magnum..here is a pdf file ..