Which Shotgun for buckshot ?

[Scrumbag]

Fabaram H368 with a Burris Fastfire III 3MOA on a Recknagel Dovetail Mount

 

[BeeMaa]

Fabaram H368 with a Burris Fastfire III 3MOA on a Recknagel Dovetail Mount

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Nice. I’ve seen some videos from SHOT show that some shotgun companies are milling out the receiver to allow for a lower optic mount. Good to see them catching up.

 

[archer36]

Incorrect. 15 pellets is the standard for 3" 00B. 12 pellets is often found in a 00B 2¾" magnum load. Winchester Double X Supreme got weird and dropped pellets off the standard loadings to increase speed, but it suffers blown out patterns from my testing in 14" cylinder bore. Who else is loading 12 pellets of 00B in factory loadings?

I'm not saying recoil is only felt when patterning sir and perhaps it's even a bit of a stretch to say when it matters as there are situations in the field where it matters such as shooting from a tree stand while standing. I have had such concerns as I am not the heaviest built. I have felt recoil while hunting mainly due to the fact that shoot enough that I'm very familiar with my gun before I go afield. I feel the hit and I'm cycling that action to shoot again.

Personally I wear a recoil pad when doing pattern testing as I don't want to throw off a shot due to a flinch or get a tender shoulder unnecessarily. There's a time for that IMHO and it's after the gun and load is dialled in. If we're trying to be he-man and take the big hit with grace and get the load dialed in all at once it makes for a very short period of effectiveness. In this case I am talking about deer or turkey hunting where we're firing a maximum of maybe six shots in a day as opposed to waterfowl hunting where one might see a bit more.

Sounds like you basically agree with my posts but haven't realized it yet?

 

[Forrest Halley]

For certain the 1301 is a very good and reliable shotgun. I know a few people who swear by them. I think a gas gun is going to be sweeter in all aspects recoil than a recoil operated gun.

@Scrumbag is quite the accomplished shotgunner with respect to slugs. He has likely fired more than most of us save a few poor law enforcement chaps. He seems a glutton for punishment in this department.

Sounds like you basically agree with my posts but haven't realized it yet?

I agree with some of what has been said, but in reflection I see caveats. I felt it a broad brushstroke to say recoil doesn't matter afield or that it isn't felt when hunting. I've avoided certain stands with certain guns and have felt recoil even in the moment. It sounds as though you consider recoil for the discomfort whereas I am considering it mostly for the disturbance of my position or how much it delays a follow-up shot.

 

[Scrumbag]

Nice. I’ve seen some videos from SHOT show that some shotgun companies are milling out the receiver to allow for a lower optic mount. Good to see them catching up.

Yeah, Mossberg seem to be really on it.

Could maybe be persuaded by "945" (940 in 3.5") with a 28" multi choke barrel and a 24" Turkey barrel (We can't have rifle barrels on semi autos and pumps here)

 

[Scrumbag]

For certain the 1301 is a very good and reliable shotgun. I know a few people who swear by them. I think a gas gun is going to be sweeter in all aspects recoil than a recoil operated gun.

@Scrumbag is quite the accomplished shotgunner with respect to slugs. He has likely fired more than most of us save a few poor law enforcement chaps. He seems a glutton for punishment in this department.

I agree with some of what has been said, but in reflection I see caveats. I felt it a broad brushstroke to say recoil doesn't matter afield or that it isn't felt when hunting. I've avoided certain stands with certain guns and have felt recoil even in the moment. It sounds as though you consider recoil for the discomfort whereas I am considering it mostly for the disturbance of my position or how much it delays a follow-up shot.

Those 1301s do look good.

Accomplished is something I'm not so sure about. We have a few competitions a year here where we shoot slugs at time limited turning targets which is a hoot though. If you's trying hard you might do 150-200 slugs in a morning (Shooting both pump action and semi-auto classes)

I think in the field with adrenaline you tend to mind / object to recoil less - I had a really sloppy mount when waterfowl hunting and put three 3.5" loads at a goose out of a Mossberg 535. Didn't care at the time. That evening though, boy I felt it!

 

[BeeMaa]

Yeah, Mossberg seem to be really on it.

Could maybe be persuaded by "945" (940 in 3.5") with a 28" multi choke barrel and a 24" Turkey barrel (We can't have rifle barrels on semi autos and pumps here)

I’d spend the extra money and get a Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus with Kickoff and a 28” multi-choke barrel.

Adding a 24” multi-choke turkey barrel would be a nice addition for use inside a blind. Although I get excellent turkey patterns from a 28”.

 

[Scrumbag]

I’d spend the extra money and get a Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus with Kickoff and a 28” multi-choke barrel.

Adding a 24” multi-choke turkey barrel would be a nice addition for use inside a blind. Although I get excellent turkey patterns from a 28”.

I get the impression "Turkey Barrel" tends to mean "shorter so handier for sneaking around woods, definitely multichoke, ideally cammo and tends to come with fibre optic rifle style sights"

Don't see why if you were willing to tune your choke you'd get better or worse patterns out a 24" vs 28" barrel with what I understand are typical turkey shot sizes of #4-7?

 

[Scrumbag]

I don't think shotgun / mount manufacturers have quite got it right yet when it comes to red dots and shotgun mounts.

What I really want is the ability to put on a red dot and remove it without anything remaining in the sight plain for shooting a bird barrel.

Scrummy

 

[BeeMaa]

I get the impression "Turkey Barrel" tends to mean "shorter so handier for sneaking around woods, definitely multichoke, ideally cammo and tends to come with fibre optic rifle style sights"

Don't see why if you were willing to tune your choke you'd get better or worse patterns out a 24" vs 28" barrel with what I understand are typical turkey shot sizes of #4-7?

I wouldn’t change anything on my turkey shotgun and I’m not sure why “turkey” shotguns have shorter barrels. Maybe working the gun in a blind, hiding under a drape cover or running & gunning through the woods…I’m not sure.

These are my patterns and I’m using 2 1/4 oz 7 shot TSS from Federal.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Yeah, Mossberg seem to be really on it.

Could maybe be persuaded by "945" (940 in 3.5") with a 28" multi choke barrel and a 24" Turkey barrel (We can't have rifle barrels on semi autos and pumps here)

940 has a 18½" accu choke barrel.

I get the impression "Turkey Barrel" tends to mean "shorter so handier for sneaking around woods, definitely multichoke, ideally cammo and tends to come with fibre optic rifle style sights"

Don't see why if you were willing to tune your choke you'd get better or worse patterns out a 24" vs 28" barrel with what I understand are typical turkey shot sizes of #4-7?

Shorter is better provided there are sights to offset the shortness. It's difficult for me to index a tight pattern well with a short rib.

 

[archer36]

For certain the 1301 is a very good and reliable shotgun. I know a few people who swear by them. I think a gas gun is going to be sweeter in all aspects recoil than a recoil operated gun.

@Scrumbag is quite the accomplished shotgunner with respect to slugs. He has likely fired more than most of us save a few poor law enforcement chaps. He seems a glutton for punishment in this department.

I agree with some of what has been said, but in reflection I see caveats. I felt it a broad brushstroke to say recoil doesn't matter afield or that it isn't felt when hunting. I've avoided certain stands with certain guns and have felt recoil even in the moment. It sounds as though you consider recoil for the discomfort whereas I am considering it mostly for the disturbance of my position or how much it delays a follow-up shot.

You need to read posts much more slowly. I said in the field, one or two shots is hardly noticed. Of course, many shots take a toll no matter what the gauge. Why can't you accept that people may have different experiences than you. It's not a matter of right or wrong. Opinions are not facts, but an expression of personal experience. That's all. Can't people have different experiences/opinions?

 

[Willard427]

ANY shotgun will work........If yours has chokes expirement with different chokes and different buckshot sizes at the pattern board
BTW.....When i deer hunted with hounds I used my Browning A5 with 22 in bbl, extra full Turkey choke and #1's......It was deadly. My 2 old Winchester pumps(mdl 12 & 97) have 32 in fixed full chokes. They pattern good with almost any buckshot load.

 

[Forrest Halley]

ANY shotgun will work........If yours has chokes expirement with different chokes and different buckshot sizes at the pattern board
BTW.....When i deer hunted with hounds I used my Browning A5 with 22 in bbl, extra full Turkey choke and #1's......It was deadly. My 2 old Winchester pumps(mdl 12 & 97) have 32 in fixed full chokes. They pattern good with almost any buckshot load.

What were the typical distances at which you took shots?

 

[Scrumbag]

SO, anyone for a an over/under with a red dot? Be interesting to see what this guy does with buckshot and slugs out of Browning Cynergy

 

[Finprof]

There are lots of YouTube videos of shotgun buckshot deer hunts in North Carolina or South Carolina. Almost everyone uses a Browning long recoil Auto-5 12 gauge.
A long time ago I hunted with a large club in Upstate SC. The club would put out 15-20 drivers and 15-20 standers. Almost everyone used an Auto 5, except me and my 1100. On doe days we would each get at least one deer.
2 3/4 inch 00 Buck through a modified choke was very effective.
The cover was thick and shots were typically under 40 yards.

 

[BeeMaa]

@Scrumbag - Mossberg 940 does have an optic cut (Shield RMSc-pattern) but aren't chambered in 3.5"...only 3". Then their 935 will accept the 3.5's but doesn't have an optic cut.

Just screaming into the void here but how the hell does the "flagship" 940 waterfowl semi-auto shotgun not come with a 3.5" chamber? And the turkey 940 doesn't either? Doesn't make any sense to me. While I'm at it, might as well mention that they should optic cut EVERYTHING (competition, tactical, turkey & waterfowl) except the models with a wood stock for those who want a traditional look.

If the Mossberg 940 wants to compete with the Beretta A400 Xtreme and Benelli SBE3, they need to step up their game. Hell, even the Winchester SX4 has a 3.5" chamber available in some models.

How long do you think it will be before Beretta, Benelli and others start offering an optic cut in their receiver? I can guarantee they are looking into it after walking around SHOT '24.

 

[Forrest Halley]

@Scrumbag - Mossberg 940 does have an optic cut (Shield RMSc-pattern) but aren't chambered in 3.5"...only 3". Then their 935 will accept the 3.5's but doesn't have an optic cut.

Just screaming into the void here but how the hell does the "flagship" 940 waterfowl semi-auto shotgun not come with a 3.5" chamber? And the turkey 940 doesn't either? Doesn't make any sense to me. While I'm at it, might as well mention that they should optic cut EVERYTHING (competition, tactical, turkey & waterfowl) except the models with a wood stock for those who want a traditional look.

If the Mossberg 940 wants to compete with the Beretta A400 Xtreme and Benelli SBE3, they need to step up their game. Hell, even the Winchester SX4 has a 3.5" chamber available in some models.

How long do you think it will be before Beretta, Benelli and others start offering an optic cut in their receiver? I can guarantee they are looking into it after walking around SHOT '24.

Why can't they just do an 18" 3.5" gun? In anything!?! It's really annoying that the longer receiver models have an even longer minimum barrel length. Make an 18.25" barrel 3.5" with chokes, robust adjustable low profile fiberoptic sights and an optic set-up. At that point you have the perfect thick brush hunting shotgun. If it came with a folding or collapsible stock it would be even more useful. Packable and maneuverable in close quarters with the maximum payload on the first shot.

I'm here to tell you that I really appreciated the 20" barrel with flush mounted chokes this past hunting season. Even in the thickest of brush I felt like the gun was highly maneuverable. The shorter barrel would allow the use of the extended chokes in the Ultimag family while still keeping the spout as short as the law tolerates without a tax stamp. This is actually important to me because hunting shotguns have to have a minimum barrel length of 18" in Virginia. I found this out while debating the legality of the shockwave for hunting. It just didn't fit into the lawful firearm category despite possessing the require energy. There was no rifling for it to be considered a pistol even firing a single projectile and the barrel was too short and not designed to fired from the shoulder to make it a shotgun.

 

[maxtheflyinghorse]

I have been hunting Chital deer, Kakar deer and jungle boars quite a bit, by employing buckshot. I personally prefer a 12 Gauge 3 "Magnum sidelock ejector side by side, which was built in 1932 by Janssen Freres in Belgium. The barrels are 32 " long and both barrels are improved cylinder Choke.
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I used to prefer Sellier & Bellot "Red Hare" paper cased 2.75 " 35 gram eight pellet LG shells in the past. Each LG pellet has a diameter of 9.14mm and is the equivalent of American OOO Buck. Unfortunately, Sellier & Bellot discontinued manufacturing shotgun shells loaded with any shot size larger than SG/OO Buck a few years ago.
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I currently use Federal Premium 3 " Magnum Copper plated ten pellet OOO Buck shells.
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In regards to chokes, this is a very technical subject area. Buckshot which is unbuffered and uses a fiber wad, should be used only in open choked shotguns (such as cylinder or improved cylinder). Otherwise the tight chokes will cause the buckshot pellets to get deformed while passing through the barrel and your pattern will be erratic. Buckshot which is buffered and protected by a plastic wad can be used in even tightly choked shotguns (such as full or extra full), often with good results (i.e tight patterns).

I personally prefer side by side shotguns, but any format (be it over & under, pump action, semi automatic or single barrel) may be used for safely shooting buckshot. The platform is of no consequence. But side by side or over & under shotguns are more likely to have their barrel soldering eventually get damaged if heavy buckshot is repeatedly fired through them (especially the delicately built English shotguns). For this reason, double barreled shotguns (which you intend to use for shooting buckshot) should always have very strong walls.

In my experience, the bulk of the manufacturers of shotguns discourage using OOO buckshot in shotgun barrels which are choked tighter than improved cylinder. The reason being, that they believe that large buckshot through a tightly choked shotgun barrel will eventually cause a barrel bulge. These manufacturers include:
Winchester
Browning
Fausti
Rizzini
AyA
Grulla Armas
Armas Garbi
Ignacio Zubillaga
Merkel
Savage
Huglu
Baikal
Westley Richards
Watson Brothers
A. A. Brown
Verney Carron
Lebeau Courally (although they might not be manufacturing any new firearms, anyway)

Birmingham proof master, Sam Perry believes that shotguns which are intended for use with heavy Buckshot ... Should not be choked tighter than quarter choke with a good length of the cone leading in.


To the best of my knowledge... Only Beretta, Benelli and Remington (and the original Czech owned BRNO) encourage the use of OOO Buck in fully choked shotguns.

You definitely don't need a 12 Gauge with 3.5 " Super Magnum chambers. The recoil is absolutely beastly. But if you must get one, then the Benelli Super Black Eagle 3 is the greatest 3.5" Super Magnum shotgun ever to be made.

3 "Magnum chambers are far more reasonable and practical. And I've never found 3 " Magnum shells to be lacking in any department.

I do have a beautiful BRNO SXS absolutely love it.

 

[Scrumbag]

@Scrumbag - Mossberg 940 does have an optic cut (Shield RMSc-pattern) but aren't chambered in 3.5"...only 3". Then their 935 will accept the 3.5's but doesn't have an optic cut.

Just screaming into the void here but how the hell does the "flagship" 940 waterfowl semi-auto shotgun not come with a 3.5" chamber? And the turkey 940 doesn't either? Doesn't make any sense to me. While I'm at it, might as well mention that they should optic cut EVERYTHING (competition, tactical, turkey & waterfowl) except the models with a wood stock for those who want a traditional look.

If the Mossberg 940 wants to compete with the Beretta A400 Xtreme and Benelli SBE3, they need to step up their game. Hell, even the Winchester SX4 has a 3.5" chamber available in some models.

How long do you think it will be before Beretta, Benelli and others start offering an optic cut in their receiver? I can guarantee they are looking into it after walking around SHOT '24.

Seems odd why Mossberg didn’t go 3.5” and red dot compatible