Wanted Rigby 416

[CDorroh]

I agree the wood on that particular .416 PH is rather uninspiring for what they cost. It's interesting that the wood on the .450 looks that much better when I believe all PH models come with Grade 2 Turkish Walnut. The regular Big Game comes standard with Grade 5 Turkish Walnut and can be upgraded all the way to Grade 9, along with many other bells and whistles if your pockets are deep enough.

 

[CAustin]

Sometimes the plain wood ones grow one you!

 

[sierraone]

Roan,

I think you need to be much more specific. A single square bridge Rigby made Rigby 416 will set you back about $40,000, maybe more.

If you mean an Oberndorf Mauser or Brevex magnum custom made single square bridge .416 you're talking $11,000-$15,000 depending on fit and finish.

If you mean some POS that was rode hard and put away wet sold as a ZKK-602 or CZ550, you can find one for a grand in the USA and for under $2000 in RSA.

Yes, I'll find you what you implied in your request for for $40,000 and another $5000 to import it properly insured and brokered from either UK or USA. Let me know if you want to me to pursue that with my friendly contacts in the trade. I don't think you meant that though.

-Rookhawk

Which .416 Rigby are you referring to at $40,000, a little low for a London Best, but a double square bridge Big Game is around $15000 if you avoid the upgrades. So educate me here because I have no doubt you know what you are talking about!

 

[sierraone]

Hi again Roan,

Had to google the "new M98" as I did not know they are back in production now.
The article I just now read (authored in 2015 ?), was a little vague about the scope mounting design.
It possibly is now standard for Mauser to mill the bridges for pivot rings / twist-off style rings on this latest M98 ?

These probably work fine but, my preference for an extremely fine rifle, specifically such as this one, would definitely be either claw mounts or, possibly all steel, vintage Griffin & Howe side mount.
I prefer scopes on my rifles, usually only in calibers including .375 and under.
For my usage, I probably would not scope a .416 Rigby caliber rifle.

Well anyway, to answer your question (finally .... sheesh), I feel the "new M98" looks to be approximately as good as the Pre-War Oberndorf Magnum Mauser 98 was.
IMO, the Model 98 Mauser is the finest hunting rifle in the history of the world.
Furthermore, the only real improvement beyond the original M98s made in the Pre-War Oberndorf factory, has been only the "Model-70 safety" design, pertaining to scope usage these days.
All other design changes from the original appear to me to be nothing more than manufacturer's cost cutting ideas.

If scoping is not intended, then the original Mauser "flag safety" is at least as good as the Model 70 Winchester type "safety" design (again just IMO).

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Two years ago at DSC, the M98 in .416 Rigby was $1000 less expensive than the Big Game, both were double square bridge and I believe grade 5 wood. $15000 for the Rigby. With no upgrades of course!!!

 

[rookhawk]

When discussed, I was thinking of a quality used Rigby made by the original, real Rigby pre-separation/sale/Yorba Linda/Texas/UK again. A nice example is in that $40k range.

A new gun for $10k or so made by the fellas in the U.K. That registered the U.K. Trademark isn't a bad gun for the money. It won't have the cache or long term equity of "a real one".

For the money, a shockingly good deal on a modern gun though. That's Dakota money for a U.K. Gun.

 

[sierraone]

When discussed, I was thinking of a quality used Rigby made by the original, real Rigby pre-separation/sale/Yorba Linda/Texas/UK again. A nice example is in that $40k range.

A new gun for $10k or so made by the fellas in the U.K. That registered the U.K. Trademark isn't a bad gun for the money. It won't have the cache or long term equity of "a real one".

For the money, a shockingly good deal on a modern gun though. That's Dakota money for a U.K. Gun.

I believe that explains what you were referring to. When I was at Rigby last month, they showed me a .416 that was one of 170 I believe made from the beginning of the Big Game until WWII. They had it has one of their museum rifles. Marc did say though if it were for sale, it would be around $60,000. I think that is what you were referring to!

 

[rookhawk]

@sierraone correct. We're in alignment as to definitions and implied quality/age of gun at that pricepoint.

 

[spike.t]

A new gun for $10k or so made by the fellas in the U.K. That registered the U.K. Trademark isn't a bad gun for the money. It won't have the cache or long term equity of "a real one".

not sure what you mean by this as the Rigby thats back in uk owned by Blaser is the old usa one bought originally from paul in london when he owned it, that did go through a couple of changes during its usa sojurn. the ones that registered the trademark in london a few years ago and started up i am not sure are even in business anymore. here is the link to the rifles and pricing for J Rigby, although i am surprised that you seem to know so little about the pricing etc with your connections to the trade.........or are these pos as well?...........

https://www.johnrigbyandco.com/guns/the-big-game/

 

[rookhawk]

Mike, in short, as a collector of best guns one is inclined to consider current Rigby product as replicas. Whether they are solvent long enough to overcome that pejorative remains to be seen but I'm hopeful. They appear to be a quality British made gun for relatively cheap money, $10-$15k for a magnum square bridge. I was shocked when I learned that price just recently as I thought they'd be more.

When someone asks for Rigby there was an inference they want a Rigby-Rigby. A .416 likely made between the wars and those are $40-$60k. Others ask for a .416 Rigby square bridge and they mean a gunsmith made gun on a fine action like a Reimer Johansen or others. I asked for some clarifications for these reasons.

Otherwise to mix metaphors, there are Rigby double rifles all over new unfired made in Yorba Linda, CA (or made by Merkel) and while bonafide Rigby by a lawyer's yardstick as they owned the rights, they are not "Real Rigby Rigby" to the collector or purist. They in fact are nearly unsaleable and I see examples of .470 DRs new that won't fetch $15k whereas a London gun from the proper era is $50k-$100k.

Who made it and where it was made and when make big Rigby differences. Many would argue a Ron Wharton gun is more Rigby than a Yorba Linda gun. Lots of people have played in this sandbox in the past 30 years and it starts to give the same feeling as a post-64 Winchester...a brand but not a maker.

 

[sierraone]

not sure what you mean by this as the Rigby thats back in uk owned by Blaser is the old usa one bought originally from paul in london when he owned it, that did go through a couple of changes during its usa sojurn. the ones that registered the trademark in london a few years ago and started up i am not sure are even in business anymore. here is the link to the rifles and pricing for J Rigby, although i am surprised that you seem to know so little about the pricing etc with your connections to the trade.........or are these pos as well?...........

https://www.johnrigbyandco.com/guns/the-big-game/

See my previous post about (according to Marc) one of these 170 or so .416 Rigbys made prior to WWII, are much more valuable, and the "implied quality" makes it so. And with it side by side with a new Big Game, there is no obvious big difference IMO. I know what the Rigby website has with the new ones, I look at it at least every week or so. I could probably buy one, but my hunting time and other shooting time would suffer. But I could never buy one of the pre WWII Rigbys.

 

[rookhawk]

Anecdotal info slightly off topic: I owned a Rigby shotgun retailed in London of good quality. Sidelock ejector double trigger with decent wood and 50% coverage engraving. If made in London by whomever and retailed as a Rigby it would have been a $15k-$25k gun. It was made by Arizabalaga in Spain and I think I paid $2500-$3500. This is the complex situation with Rigby as there are many owners and outworkers involved and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I didn't feel it was a real Rigby nor would the market based upon its price/value.

For purposes of this conversation, I'd say it makes little difference for these $10k big game rifles. Where can you find a new square bridge magnum mauser from ANY maker for that money? Heck, a Reimer action alone is around $6000 in the white. It should be a fine working tool even if its "realness" is dubious to some.

 

[spike.t]

Mike, in short, as a collector of best guns one is inclined to consider current Rigby product as replicas. Whether they are solvent long enough to overcome that pejorative remains to be seen but I'm hopeful. They appear to be a quality British made gun for relatively cheap money, $10-$15k for a magnum square bridge. I was shocked when I learned that price just recently as I thought they'd be more.

When someone asks for Rigby there was an inference they want a Rigby-Rigby. A .416 likely made between the wars and those are $40-$60k. Others ask for a .416 Rigby square bridge and they mean a gunsmith made gun on a fine action like a Reimer Johansen or others. I asked for some clarifications for these reasons.

Otherwise to mix metaphors, there are Rigby double rifles all over new unfired made in Yorba Linda, CA (or made by Merkel) and while bonafide Rigby by a lawyer's yardstick as they owned the rights, they are not "Real Rigby Rigby" to the collector or purist. They in fact are nearly unsaleable and I see examples of .470 DRs new that won't fetch $15k whereas a London gun from the proper era is $50k-$100k.

Who made it and where it was made and when make big Rigby differences. Many would argue a Ron Wharton gun is more Rigby than a Yorba Linda gun. Lots of people have played in this sandbox in the past 30 years and it starts to give the same feeling as a post-64 Winchester...a brand but not a maker.

i know all about the california "Rigbys" and wouldnt touch one with a barge pole, and paul took me to look at the .450 they built for sci for the 100th anniversary of the calibre to see what i thought of it. i was amazed to see it was built on a merkel action, and when shut the cross bolt had to be pushed in the last bit with your finger on this particular rifle..........when paul told me what they were hoping to get at the auction i said not a chance , and it didnt . i know about the Arizabalaga shotguns paul had made by them. he was looking to bring in a well priced nice shotgun to be able to sell below the handmade ones. no different from names being put on cheaper birmingham trade guns in the past i would have thought.....paul told ron to stop using the Rigby name in his adverts after he left the company, and nothing wrong with rons rifles. with Blaser owning Rigby and Mauser i would have thought the future was financially secure, and Marc (who i have known since he first worked for paul) at the helm of Rigbys i think they have a very good future and maybe you will condescend one day to think they are "proper" Rigbys ...now presumably my .470 that paul built for me and i unfortunately sold isnt a real Rigby according to your thinking or the four .416`s he built me....

here is the link which also will take you to the holts page http://www.africahunting.com/threads/rigby-470.16104/ also maybe i should bin the .275 Rigby i just got from paul as it is an actual replica of another rifle.......going off here now as heading towards a sense of humour failure

 

[Roan]

They are the only guys making Rigby so I cant see why its not a"real" Rigby.

The pre-war stuff is not affordable to most of us and aren't used for what they are made for any way by the majority of those who have them.

These Rigbys are to me and IMO most other people real Rigbys.

If a small hand full of collectors think otherwise I guess that's fine.

Would love to see a pic o that 275 if you get a chance.

 

[spike.t]

They are the only guys making Rigby so I cant see why its not a"real" Rigby.

The pre-war stuff is not affordable to most of us and aren't used for what they are made for any way by the majority of those who have them.

These Rigbys are to me and IMO most other people real Rigbys.

If a small hand full of collectors think otherwise I guess that's fine.

Would love to see a pic o that 275 if you get a chance.

hi here is link to page on here ...post no 49 i think

http://www.africahunting.com/threads/rigby-275.22709/page-3

 

[Roan]

I Want that rifle!!!

Real beaut you have there.

 

[spike.t]

I Want that rifle!!!

Real beaut you have there.

i think paul has my old one still....not 100% but can give you his email...

 

[rookhawk]

No different than my one of three like it, fastest ever made, 2007 Saab aero v6 convertibles in laser red with Hirsch performance upgrades. I paid 2x black book for it hoping it will become something as it's a neat car. I fear collectors will say it's not a "real saab" though as it was bastardized with GM parts and wasn't made in Trollhattan, Sweden, it was made in a GM plant in Austria.

Collectors don't know what to make of dubious parentage with any collectibles, Saab or Rigby. Same level of cautious optimism. Buying a brand name isn't itself sufficient, it must persuade most purists it's the legitimate heir to the firms illustrious heritage. TBD.

 

[spike.t]

@rookhawk i have been talking to marc newton at rigbys by email and gave him the link to this thread. here are two emails he sent me with permission to post on here . he also sent some photos but i have had to send them to wayne to put on for me as the sat internet is too slow, so they should be put on soon. take a good look at both, but especially the second one as its addressed to you, and its more than i would have offered you i must say after what i consider some pretty pompous and arrogant posts on this thread, but they are putting their money where their mouth is so up to you and a bloody good offer i think!

first email

Mike

Perhaps you would like to put up these photos?

They are of a London Best .416 Rigby made for a customer just recently. Just like John Rigby at the turn of the century, we offer an entry level magazine rifle on a Mauser action. The Big Game was developed to continue this tradition and it has proven very popular. We've built and delivered more than 450 in the past 3 years, an incredible number when you think only 189 were made between 1912 and 1940. RRP starts at circa £5,800

Our London Best rifles are completely put together by hand in London and are BEST quality. We offer any calibre and an unlimited number of custom options. To date we have built and delivered circa 85 guns in the past 3 years. RRP starts at circa £17,000.

I was trained by Paul Roberts who was the last owner of the company in the UK. Mark Renmant our factory manager was at Rigby's in the 80's and 90's. He learnt from Dave Perkins who also worked at the firm. You can trace the mentor/apprentice 'line' right back to the beginning from Mark. Plenty of pedigree there. It's great to have him running our team of young, enthusiastic gunmakers and passing on his inherited Rigby knowledge. We also have a near complete set of ledgers detailing all guns and rifles made by the company. Various items in our collection also include the Gordon Bennett cup presented to John Rigby the 3rd, historic guns made by the company, medals, Jim Corbett's .275, historic documents relating to business and product development in the company etc etc. We even have Melissa Rigby, the great granddaughter of John Rigby working for us on our Rising Bite double guns. Not sure how we could be anymore Rigby when I think about it actually.

Will follow up with some more photos.

Best regards
Marc

second email for you @rookhawk

In addition to my earlier email I can report we currently have more than 40 Rigby double guns in order and have a waiting list of four years. For London Best bolt rifles the order book is also near full and the waiting list is 18-24 months.

Please can you extend to Rookhawk a personal invitation from me to the shop in London. We will even pay to fly him to London so he can really see for himself what Rigby is all about.


Marc Newton
Managing Director

JOHN RIGBY & Co. (Gunmakers) LTD
13-19 PENSBURY PLACE
LONDON SW8 4TP
UNITED KINGDOM
Mob. +44 (0)7432 664 030
Tel. +44 (0)207 720 0757
RFD 02/7384 Met Police

this is another when i was talking to him about roan to see if he could help, but shows the attitude marc and the people at rigbys have

Let me know if we can do anything else. People are very welcome to visit at anytime

Marc Newton
Managing Director

so your call rookhawk.

 

[sierraone]

@rookhawk i have been talking to marc newton at rigbys by email and gave him the link to this thread. here are two emails he sent me with permission to post on here . he also sent some photos but i have had to send them to wayne to put on for me as the sat internet is too slow, so they should be put on soon. take a good look at both, but especially the second one as its addressed to you, and its more than i would have offered you i must say after what i consider some pretty pompous and arrogant posts on this thread, but they are putting their money where their mouth is so up to you and a bloody good offer i think!

first email

Mike

Perhaps you would like to put up these photos?

They are of a London Best .416 Rigby made for a customer just recently. Just like John Rigby at the turn of the century, we offer an entry level magazine rifle on a Mauser action. The Big Game was developed to continue this tradition and it has proven very popular. We've built and delivered more than 450 in the past 3 years, an incredible number when you think only 189 were made between 1912 and 1940. RRP starts at circa £5,800

Our London Best rifles are completely put together by hand in London and are BEST quality. We offer any calibre and an unlimited number of custom options. To date we have built and delivered circa 85 guns in the past 3 years. RRP starts at circa £17,000.

I was trained by Paul Roberts who was the last owner of the company in the UK. Mark Renmant our factory manager was at Rigby's in the 80's and 90's. He learnt from Dave Perkins who also worked at the firm. You can trace the mentor/apprentice 'line' right back to the beginning from Mark. Plenty of pedigree there. It's great to have him running our team of young, enthusiastic gunmakers and passing on his inherited Rigby knowledge. We also have a near complete set of ledgers detailing all guns and rifles made by the company. Various items in our collection also include the Gordon Bennett cup presented to John Rigby the 3rd, historic guns made by the company, medals, Jim Corbett's .275, historic documents relating to business and product development in the company etc etc. We even have Melissa Rigby, the great granddaughter of John Rigby working for us on our Rising Bite double guns. Not sure how we could be anymore Rigby when I think about it actually.

Will follow up with some more photos.

Best regards
Marc

second email for you @rookhawk

In addition to my earlier email I can report we currently have more than 40 Rigby double guns in order and have a waiting list of four years. For London Best bolt rifles the order book is also near full and the waiting list is 18-24 months.

Please can you extend to Rookhawk a personal invitation from me to the shop in London. We will even pay to fly him to London so he can really see for himself what Rigby is all about.


Marc Newton
Managing Director

JOHN RIGBY & Co. (Gunmakers) LTD
13-19 PENSBURY PLACE
LONDON SW8 4TP
UNITED KINGDOM
Mob. +44 (0)7432 664 030
Tel. +44 (0)207 720 0757
RFD 02/7384 Met Police

this is another when i was talking to him about roan to see if he could help, but shows the attitude marc and the people at rigbys have

Let me know if we can do anything else. People are very welcome to visit at anytime

Marc Newton
Managing Director

so your call rookhawk.

rookhawk, you should take Marc up on his offer, how could you possibly go wrong???!!!

 

[cpr0312]

@rookhawk i have been talking to marc newton at rigbys by email and gave him the link to this thread. here are two emails he sent me with permission to post on here . he also sent some photos but i have had to send them to wayne to put on for me as the sat internet is too slow, so they should be put on soon. take a good look at both, but especially the second one as its addressed to you, and its more than i would have offered you i must say after what i consider some pretty pompous and arrogant posts on this thread, but they are putting their money where their mouth is so up to you and a bloody good offer i think!

first email

Mike

Perhaps you would like to put up these photos?

They are of a London Best .416 Rigby made for a customer just recently. Just like John Rigby at the turn of the century, we offer an entry level magazine rifle on a Mauser action. The Big Game was developed to continue this tradition and it has proven very popular. We've built and delivered more than 450 in the past 3 years, an incredible number when you think only 189 were made between 1912 and 1940. RRP starts at circa £5,800

Our London Best rifles are completely put together by hand in London and are BEST quality. We offer any calibre and an unlimited number of custom options. To date we have built and delivered circa 85 guns in the past 3 years. RRP starts at circa £17,000.

I was trained by Paul Roberts who was the last owner of the company in the UK. Mark Renmant our factory manager was at Rigby's in the 80's and 90's. He learnt from Dave Perkins who also worked at the firm. You can trace the mentor/apprentice 'line' right back to the beginning from Mark. Plenty of pedigree there. It's great to have him running our team of young, enthusiastic gunmakers and passing on his inherited Rigby knowledge. We also have a near complete set of ledgers detailing all guns and rifles made by the company. Various items in our collection also include the Gordon Bennett cup presented to John Rigby the 3rd, historic guns made by the company, medals, Jim Corbett's .275, historic documents relating to business and product development in the company etc etc. We even have Melissa Rigby, the great granddaughter of John Rigby working for us on our Rising Bite double guns. Not sure how we could be anymore Rigby when I think about it actually.

Will follow up with some more photos.

Best regards
Marc

second email for you @rookhawk

In addition to my earlier email I can report we currently have more than 40 Rigby double guns in order and have a waiting list of four years. For London Best bolt rifles the order book is also near full and the waiting list is 18-24 months.

Please can you extend to Rookhawk a personal invitation from me to the shop in London. We will even pay to fly him to London so he can really see for himself what Rigby is all about.


Marc Newton
Managing Director

JOHN RIGBY & Co. (Gunmakers) LTD
13-19 PENSBURY PLACE
LONDON SW8 4TP
UNITED KINGDOM
Mob. +44 (0)7432 664 030
Tel. +44 (0)207 720 0757
RFD 02/7384 Met Police

this is another when i was talking to him about roan to see if he could help, but shows the attitude marc and the people at rigbys have

Let me know if we can do anything else. People are very welcome to visit at anytime

Marc Newton
Managing Director

so your call rookhawk.

WOW

What an offer, thats really cool!