Tipping Guide

[Red Leg]

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Spent 25 years as a auto mechanic working on a shop rate commision, no tips, never expected any.

I actually do tip my mechanic - the electrician - our postal lady - the garbage guy - even the tree crew when we have storm damage. It isn't a percentage of the bill, but it will be enough to easily cover lunch and a couple of beers. They have given us a lot of personalized service as a result. I think that works to both our benefit.

 

[jeff]

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I actually do tip my mechanic - the electrician - our postal lady - the garbage guy - even the tree crew when we have storm damage. It isn't a percentage of the bill, but it will be enough to easily cover lunch and a couple of beers. They have given us a lot of personalized service as a result. I think that works to both our benefit.

I would have excepted a tip and not thought it disparaging.

 

[jeff]

A tip is one of the few things you control on a hunt so it should encourage good work, if not the tip will reflect that.

 

[Dean2]

If you really understood communism u would know that the ditch digger and the engineer get paid the same. That is not a good system. There is a very big difference between paying people a wage they can live on and communism. The min wage for servers here means even a waitress can pay rent and feed her kids without relying on the generosity of her clients or a welfare top up. There are also lots of servers that make far more than min because they are better at their jobs. I earned performance bonuses that were a very significant part of my income, but I did not need those bonuses to feed and shelter my family. The bonuses were my incentive pay for making millions for the company, not my basic wage needed to live.

Same thing applies to tipping the plumber and electrician. While it likely insures preferential treatment in the future and is a wise investment the plumber doesn't need your tip to feed and house his kids. That is the part I find 2 faced about those that advocate tipping to incentivise the very lowest paid workers who can't survive on their base pay. No amount of arguing that free enterprise dictates this approach will change the fact that there are tens of thousands of workers being exploited by their employers and their clients have bought the bs that it is their role to make up for the crappy wages they pay.

 

[Cam Moon]

Reading all of this makes me think that maybe I would want a Japanese PH, as long as he/she was competent and did a good job!

 

[mark-hunter]

If you really understood communism u would know that the ditch digger and the engineer get paid the same. That is not a good system. There is a very big difference between paying people a wage they can live on and communism.

If living in former Yugoslavia is considered as valid experiece for living in communist state, then this presumuption is wrong.
To put in perspective with some examples of standards, there were the differences between ditch digger and engineer, or goverment company CEO in their monthy income.

There were people who could afford imported mercedes car for example, or on the other hand there were those who could afford only italian fiat 500 ccm car, or similar car.
"Socialist middle class" favorite was WV Golf. (at one time even produced under license in Bosnia.)
I gave below illustration of cars of the time period, to give idea of the economic standards of working, middle and higher classes in former ex Yu.

 

[BSO Dave]

If you really understood communism u would know that the ditch digger and the engineer get paid the same.

You are absolutely wrong on this my friend. So, by that theory, Putin makes the same wage and lives in the same project apartments as the poor bastards they sent in to clean up after Chernobyl..? LMFAO!

Do you know any communists? I do.. Actually, I personally know many who fled communism from Cuba who have quite a good grasp on how the system works. There is a caste system in communism for almost everything including education, employment, the type of living accommodations you are entitled to, etc.,. In other words, they do not waste their time an money sending ditch diggers to engineering school and vice versa.. Interesting that the communists who hold the power don't seem to explain the details very well to the common people when they are selling them on the concept of revolt. I also find it interesting that the common people never seem to question why they had no say in who leads them or who makes these decisions for them? Maybe it's because those who do disappear from the face of the earth in short order?

As hard as it is to accept for those who base their ideologies on what is emotionally satisfying rather than what is reality, there is no disputing the fact human beings are not equal on many facets by nature. Some of us are born with more intelligence while others are born with more physical strength. Some are born tall, while others short. In the real world, intellectual and physical attributes matter especially in regard to employment. Even within the same job, some are better than others, and the concept of compensating them equally regardless of their level of competence is not only absurd, it's unnatural and immoral. There is no changing these facts no matter how badly one tries to rig the system to force more socially equal outcomes. This is a poisonous ideology that the liberal progressives have been trying to install into the USA for generations. It is practiced rampantly in most government and public working environments through affirmative action programs, and I can tell you first-hand how destructive it is on every level.

That is the part I find 2 faced about those that advocate tipping to incentivise the very lowest paid workers who can't survive on their base pay. No amount of arguing that free enterprise dictates this approach will change the fact that there are tens of thousands of workers being exploited by their employers and their clients have bought the bs that it is their role to make up for the crappy wages they pay.

I honestly don't know how many ways it needs to be explained that tipping those in the service industries is not about the consumer subsidizing wages that the employer should be paying in the first place. It's simply a different and better system in which I personally much prefer by being able to influence the level of service I will receive by having control over the server's total compensation. The employees who accept these terms do so agreeably knowing that their performance directly dictates how much they can potentially earn. It's capitalism to perfection. Paying a flat wage that guarantees the employee's income regardless of performance in ANY industry is the concept that is absurd. That's Chapter 1 out of Das Kapital comrade.

 

[Hank2211]

It's amazing to me how we can bring politics into virtually any thread.

I would assume (but I know I'd be wrong) that we all acknowledge that we are entirely free to tip or not, and if we tip, we're entirely free to decide how much to tip. So arguing about the history of tipping (we have some idea of the principles behind it); that some people tip more than others (we know that); that some cultures value tipping more than others (again, we know that); and that some tip more than others (ditto); that some people abhor the entire practice of tipping (ditto, ditto); etc. is not at all helpful.

If you want to argue about one economic system vs another, or one culture vs another, or whether Americans have ruined the entire tipping economy of the world, perhaps you could start another thread where those who wish to vent, and those who wish to read venting by others, could go to accomplish those things.

Why start a new thread? Because none of that is particularly informative or helpful to those looking for reasonable guidance on a tricky subject. And that's how this thread began and what this thread is supposed to be about.

And that's my vent.

 

[BSO Dave]

If you want to argue about one economic system vs another, or one culture vs another, or whether Americans have ruined the entire tipping economy of the world, perhaps you could start another thread where those who wish to vent, and those who wish to read venting by others, could go to accomplish those things.

Why start a new thread? Because none of that is particularly informative or helpful to those looking for reasonable guidance on a tricky subject. And that's how this thread began and what this thread is supposed to be about.

Threads get hijacked or simply meander off topic here all the time. It isn't the first or the last time it will happen. If the discussion gets too out of hand, I figure that the moderators will step in accordingly as they see fit to do.. And, although I completely agree with you that the debate over the concept of "tipping" itself was not the original intent of the thread, I disagree that there is no value in debate. Debating the pros & cons of any subject is always of some value in my opinion. I think it is particularly helpful for those who do not come from a tipping culture to hear the reasoning behind the practice especially when they will be patronizing a country where the practice is customary.

 

[Hank2211]

Threads get hijacked or simply meander off topic here all the time. It isn't the first or the last time it will happen. If the discussion gets too out of hand, I figure that the moderators will step in accordingly as they see fit to do.. And, although I completely agree with you that the debate over the concept of "tipping" itself was not the original intent of the thread, I disagree that there is no value in debate. Debating the pros & cons of any subject is always of some value in my opinion. I think it is particularly helpful for those who do not come from a tipping culture to hear the reasoning behind the practice especially when they will be patronizing a country where the practice is customary.

I don't mind debate where debate is called for; I just don't see it being required here.

But in the interests of minding my own vent, I won't debate you on that here!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

You are absolutely wrong on this my friend. So, by that theory, Putin makes the same wage and lives in the same project apartments as the poor bastards they sent in to clean up after Chernobyl..? LMFAO!

Do you know any communists? I do.. Actually, I personally know many who fled communism from Cuba who have quite a good grasp on how the system works. There is a caste system in communism for almost everything including education, employment, the type of living accommodations you are entitled to, etc.,. In other words, they do not waste their time an money sending ditch diggers to engineering school and vice versa.. Interesting that the communists who hold the power don't seem to explain the details very well to the common people when they are selling them on the concept of revolt. I also find it interesting that the common people never seem to question why they had no say in who leads them or who makes these decisions for them? Maybe it's because those who do disappear from the face of the earth in short order?

As hard as it is to accept for those who base their ideologies on what is emotionally satisfying rather than what is reality, there is no disputing the fact human beings are not equal on many facets by nature. Some of us are born with more intelligence while others are born with more physical strength. Some are born tall, while others short. In the real world, intellectual and physical attributes matter especially in regard to employment. Even within the same job, some are better than others, and the concept of compensating them equally regardless of their level of competence is not only absurd, it's unnatural and immoral. There is no changing these facts no matter how badly one tries to rig the system to force more socially equal outcomes. This is a poisonous ideology that the liberal progressives have been trying to install into the USA for generations. It is practiced rampantly in most government and public working environments through affirmative action programs, and I can tell you first-hand how destructive it is on every level.



I honestly don't know how many ways it needs to be explained that tipping those in the service industries is not about the consumer subsidizing wages that the employer should be paying in the first place. It's simply a different and better system in which I personally much prefer by being able to influence the level of service I will receive by having control over the server's total compensation. The employees who accept these terms do so agreeably knowing that their performance directly dictates how much they can potentially earn. It's capitalism to perfection. Paying a flat wage that guarantees the employee's income regardless of performance in ANY industry is the concept that is absurd. That's Chapter 1 out of Das Kapital comrade.

@BSO Dave
What you are saying is 100% correct communist countries are not actually communist they are dictatorships as outlined by a few on this site.
BUT
Under the way communism was supposed to be it was supposed to make everyone equal with no class divisions, no unemployment and as stated previously a labourer was to be the same class as a CEO. This is communism in its purest form as outlined in Marxist ideology. Unfortunately it didn't work and ended up a proletariat dictatorship not a true communist ideal and the polar opposite of Marxist ideology of communism. The two ideologies are in fact diametrically opposed.
Bob.

 

[BSO Dave]

Under the way communism was supposed to be it was supposed to make everyone equal with no class divisions, no unemployment and as stated previously a labourer was to be the same class as a CEO. This is communism in its purest form as outlined in Marxist ideology. Unfortunately it didn't work and ended up a proletariat dictatorship not a true communist ideal and the polar opposite of Marxist ideology of communism. The two ideologies are in fact diametrically opposed.

Exactly..!

 

[Chago]

I will repeat my semi annual post on this thread...... Every time I am bored I can come to this thread for a good time LOL

Everyone was just enjoying themselves talking about gifts being appreciated or not. And then one guy shows up and stirs that pot. Now we have facts on Former Yugoslavia, Cuba, USSR. We are defining communism, socialism, athletics political system. Lets give @JPmbogo a slow clap.... lol

@Red Leg I am very much like you. I am currently building a house. And almost every trade so far I have "tipped" in one way or another who I felt deserved it. Some tips have been money some have been meals etc. I have not had a single trade Nickle and dime me for every added screw or tiny little revision. I have been very fair to them and they returned the favor to me. In all honesty I bet you I have saved money due to my tipping.

Now I can appreciate those who don't come from tipping cultures and this being weird for them. Just like you feel weird tipping that would be how I would feel if I came to your country and did not tip. I think the important thing is to understand the culture of where you are going. And unfortunately in Africa it is not a system where people are paid what we would agree to be "fair". And that is so because the tip is expected to do that. As in some other European countries as some of you had mentioned. Would not be necessary.

Saying I don't want to tip in Africa because in Germany we don't tip. Is the same as saying I am going to go to japan and not speak Japanese because in Germany we don't speak Japanese. You are going to another country, therefore you need to assimilate to their culture. Not the other way around.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I will repeat my semi annual post on this thread...... Every time I am bored I can come to this thread for a good time LOL

Everyone was just enjoying themselves talking about gifts being appreciated or not. And then one guy shows up and stirs that pot. Now we have facts on Former Yugoslavia, Cuba, USSR. We are defining communism, socialism, athletics political system. Lets give @JPmbogo a slow clap.... lol

@Red Leg I am very much like you. I am currently building a house. And almost every trade so far I have "tipped" in one way or another who I felt deserved it. Some tips have been money some have been meals etc. I have not had a single trade Nickle and dime me for every added screw or tiny little revision. I have been very fair to them and they returned the favor to me. In all honesty I bet you I have saved money due to my tipping.

Now I can appreciate those who don't come from tipping cultures and this being weird for them. Just like you feel weird tipping that would be how I would feel if I came to your country and did not tip. I think the important thing is to understand the culture of where you are going. And unfortunately in Africa it is not a system where people are paid what we would agree to be "fair". And that is so because the tip is expected to do that. As in some other European countries as some of you had mentioned. Would not be necessary.

Saying I don't want to tip in Africa because in Germany we don't tip. Is the same as saying I am going to go to japan and not speak Japanese because in Germany we don't speak Japanese. You are going to another country, therefore you need to assimilate to their culture. Not the other way around.

@Chago
As the old saying goes
When in Rome do as the Romans do. In this day and age it has never been more appropriate as we learn more and travel more.
Bob

 

[rookhawk]

@Chago
As the old saying goes
When in Rome do as the Romans do. In this day and age it has never been more appropriate as we learn more and travel more.
Bob

And honestly, the cities with the worst food in the world and the worst service happened to be the cultures that don't tip. (Cork, Ireland has won my personal award for worst service-worst food city in the world in my travel log for this reason)

To quote the opening line from the book Freakanomics it sums it up nicely: "People always respond to incentives"

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

And honestly, the cities with the worst food in the world and the worst service happened to be the cultures that don't tip. (Cork, Ireland has won my personal award for worst service-worst food city in the world in my travel log for this reason)

To quote the opening line from the book Freakanomics it sums it up nicely: "People always respond to incentives"

@rookhawk
I had the complete opposite in Bridgess Terris just both of Waterford in Ireland. Beautiful food and fantastic service. It was the same everywhere we went in Ireland. I will admit I didn't overly like cork tho.
Bob

 

[Chago]

And on top of that. Those of you crying how it should be included in the price..... who the f$%$ are you kidding.

In Africa I shot a Sable, Kudu, Nyala, Gemsbok, Zebra, Blue Wildebeest, Blesbok and Impala. I had 3 hot meals per day. Christ we had bbq for lunch in the field. I drank top rail liquor the entire time. Had daily laundry service, maid service etc. ALL for HALF!!!! What I paid for the same amount of time in the British Columbia mountains, sleeping in a cold wet tent, eating granola bars, cliff bars and dehydrated dog food. And only shot 1 Mountain Goat. So lets be honest.... adding a little tip to that Africa trip.... you can consider it as part of the cost. And you are still getting value you won't get anywhere else. That is why you keep going back to Africa.

 

[rookhawk]

And on top of that. Those of you crying how it should be included in the price..... who the f$%$ are you kidding.

In Africa I shot a Sable, Kudu, Nyala, Gemsbok, Zebra, Blue Wildebeest, Blesbok and Impala. I had 3 hot meals per day. Christ we had bbq for lunch in the field. I drank top rail liquor the entire time. Had daily laundry service, maid service etc. ALL for HALF!!!! What I paid for the same amount of time in the British Columbia mountains, sleeping in a cold wet tent, eating granola bars, cliff bars and dehydrated dog food. And only shot 1 Mountain Goat. So lets be honest.... adding a little tip to that Africa trip.... you can consider it as part of the cost. And you are still getting value you won't get anywhere else. That is why you keep going back to Africa.

Amen. If you can't afford to properly tip to reward amazing performance, you cannot afford to hunt and shouldn't get on an airplane.

I'm sort of a dick with tips, in that I actually give tips as a reward. If a skinner ruined a hide, I assure you, less tip. The fact that my skinner salted hides perfectly and handled ivory with the greatest of care, that guy got a $100 tip, or about a month's wages. Earned every penny of it. The fact that I made one comment about a sauce or gravy and then found many appetizers and entrees that used similar accompaniments the rest of the trip, absolutely the chef earned his $75 tip. The fact that my PH got me to game, exhibited incredible hospitality, and was always prepared earned his tip too.

On the other hand, I had a very bad experience in Africa once and regret that I tipped $750 as I should have tipped nothing at all. A tip is an incentive and a reward, I always bring enough to tip properly and I'm always prepared to "top off" when I get home in the event something extraordinary merits more.

I regret I'm not wealthy enough to give more than the 10%-15% I budget for tipping sometimes because there have been occasions if I had the means, I'd have bought a new cruiser for my PHs. I hunted at a camp last year that was GIVEN to the operator as a TIP by a very happy client in the 1990s. Obviously, the client was of incredible means but it also suggests that the services rendered were exceptionally recognized.

If you go to Africa, kill all the animals you set out after, have great sport, no crisis goes unmitigated the whole trip, and you fail to tip north of $1000, you're a cheap, miserable soul in my book.

 

[Paul Homsy]

And on top of that. Those of you crying how it should be included in the price..... who the f$%$ are you kidding.

In Africa I shot a Sable, Kudu, Nyala, Gemsbok, Zebra, Blue Wildebeest, Blesbok and Impala. I had 3 hot meals per day. Christ we had bbq for lunch in the field. I drank top rail liquor the entire time. Had daily laundry service, maid service etc. ALL for HALF!!!! What I paid for the same amount of time in the British Columbia mountains, sleeping in a cold wet tent, eating granola bars, cliff bars and dehydrated dog food. And only shot 1 Mountain Goat. So lets be honest.... adding a little tip to that Africa trip.... you can consider it as part of the cost. And you are still getting value you won't get anywhere else. That is why you keep going back to Africa.

Perfectly stated ! I agree 100% with you.

 

[VertigoBE]

Amen. If you can't afford to properly tip to reward amazing performance, you cannot afford to hunt and shouldn't get on an airplane.

I'm sort of a dick with tips, in that I actually give tips as a reward. If a skinner ruined a hide, I assure you, less tip. The fact that my skinner salted hides perfectly and handled ivory with the greatest of care, that guy got a $100 tip, or about a month's wages. Earned every penny of it. The fact that I made one comment about a sauce or gravy and then found many appetizers and entrees that used similar accompaniments the rest of the trip, absolutely the chef earned his $75 tip. The fact that my PH got me to game, exhibited incredible hospitality, and was always prepared earned his tip too.

On the other hand, I had a very bad experience in Africa once and regret that I tipped $750 as I should have tipped nothing at all. A tip is an incentive and a reward, I always bring enough to tip properly and I'm always prepared to "top off" when I get home in the event something extraordinary merits more.

I regret I'm not wealthy enough to give more than the 10%-15% I budget for tipping sometimes because there have been occasions if I had the means, I'd have bought a new cruiser for my PHs. I hunted at a camp last year that was GIVEN to the operator as a TIP by a very happy client in the 1990s. Obviously, the client was of incredible means but it also suggests that the services rendered were exceptionally recognized.

If you go to Africa, kill all the animals you set out after, have great sport, no crisis goes unmitigated the whole trip, and you fail to tip north of $1000, you're a cheap, miserable soul in my book.

Hi Rookhawk,

I must admit that I personally have never tipped more than 50€ to anyone at any point in my life for whatever service. Coming from Belgium we do not have a culture of tipping at all. For me and anyone I know, tipping is usually a 5-10€ affair.

I must say that I’m happy to have read this thread as we are/were not at all prepared for the customs in Africa with regards to tipping.

In all honesty I (and my parents, grand parents, family, friends, etc, any native from Belgium) would probably have thought that a total of 100€ in tips for all people involved would have been generous...

at least we will be a bit more prepared to the custom...

V.