Thoughts on Model 70 .416 Remington

[Googleplex]

Howdy! I’m doing some looking around and I haven’t been able to find many people posting reliable first hand information on this combination, which is surprising considering it’s an affordable quality option on the market. Does anyone here have one who would be willing to discuss their experiences with it? I’m curious about handling characteristics, how well the rifle handles or tames the recoil, accuracy, reliability, and whether they think it needs work to become a feasible dangerous game rifle or if it’s a solid rifle stock standard? Also curious what loads people use for the cartridge, what they think of the cartridge at standard loads, hot loads, and milder loads that may better replicate the .404 Jeffery rather than the .416 Rigby as common reference points. What do ya’ll think of this rifle & cartridge combo?

 

[dogcat1]

Lots of questions, I will try to help.

1. Model 70 is a classic, well built rifle. Very simple action. Usually accurate.
2. Compared to 404 Jeff, cheaper to shoot, more recoil than 404, feeds ok but not as smooth as the Jeff. A proven caliber.
3. Most shots are less than 100 yds with this caliber as you use it on buffalo, ele, lion and hippo. You don't need it for anything else. So, a 2 MOA gun is just fine. You will not have enough time or shoulder to shoot it a lot at any one time.
4. Very efficient and proven. No one I know turns their nose up at a 416 Rem in a Model 70.
5. As compared to the 416 Rigby - ballistically the same. Recoil is sharper on the Rem vs the Rigby. I have shot both and can feel it easily.

 

[Muskox]

1. Lighter rifle than a 416 Rigby (good or bad), may have more recoil, may not depending on your rifle, stock shape and body Ortho. As the Rigby requires a bigger action. A lot of Rigby's are built with 26 inch barrels and most 416 Remingtons are not.

2. Factory M70's stocks generally don't split, or have issues. They put enough wood in them. Glass bedding is a cheap and worthwhile upgrade.

3. Has trajectory similar to the 180 grain 30-06. My own thoughts on rifles like that are to put a 1.7-10 on them, so you can shoot something at 200 yards if a huge kudu comes in and you are carrying your elephant gun. Most guys are doing the 1-4 thing.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

416 rem is a great calibre
recoil is actually less than a 416 rigby, if rifles are same (weight, barrel length etc), if you going to reload its great too, uses less powder than a 416 rigby, factory ammo is cheaper too
so its a tick in all departments in my book, plus i own one in Blaser R8, best gun i own

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Howdy! I’m doing some looking around and I haven’t been able to find many people posting reliable first hand information on this combination, which is surprising considering it’s an affordable quality option on the market. Does anyone here have one who would be willing to discuss their experiences with it? I’m curious about handling characteristics, how well the rifle handles or tames the recoil, accuracy, reliability, and whether they think it needs work to become a feasible dangerous game rifle or if it’s a solid rifle stock standard? Also curious what loads people use for the cartridge, what they think of the cartridge at standard loads, hot loads, and milder loads that may better replicate the .404 Jeffery rather than the .416 Rigby as common reference points. What do ya’ll think of this rifle & cartridge combo?

A fantastic choice if you want a currently manufactured magazine rifle chambered in a caliber which can take everything Africa throws at you from bushbuck to elephant. Barring the Ruger Guide Guns and the Mauser Model 98 Magnums ( the latter being far more expensive than said Winchester Model 70), there’s no other commercially manufactured control round feed big bore magazine rifles which you’ll find on the market today (okay, fine… maybe there's the Parkwest Arms Model 76 but that’s a semi custom rifle).

One observation I have. You will benefit from having the stock bedded, otherwise it eventually will crack. Some (admittedly very few) recent examples which have been turned out of the Portugal factory… have have broken firing or extractors. So please have a gunsmith check those.

For the .416 Remington Magnum, I really like the Federal Premium factory loads:
400Gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw soft points
400Gr Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solids

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Howdy! I’m doing some looking around and I haven’t been able to find many people posting reliable first hand information on this combination, which is surprising considering it’s an affordable quality option on the market.

If you would use the Africa Hunting site's the search function for "Model 70" much information would be revealed.

Does anyone here have one who would be willing to discuss their experiences with it? I’m curious about handling characteristics, how well the rifle handles or tames the recoil, accuracy, reliability, and whether they think it needs work to become a feasible dangerous game rifle or if it’s a solid rifle stock standard?

• Most current production M70's feed very well. Rifles feeding with modern 68% meplat solids may be another outcome.
• Handling? The M70's are not a Heym Martini Express but then one can buy many M70's for the price of a Heym. Their handling is acceptable. To me, M70's feel more lively than the CZ 550 Safari Magnums.
• Felt recoil? This subject is subjective concerning if the stock fits the shooter. One could have the length of pull adjusted to fit them and a Kick Eeze recoil pad added to tame felt recoil.
• Reliability?
  • The M70 action bedding is some type of almost hard goo. Gosh awful stuff but it is functional enough for most shooters. Me, I "pillar bed" my actions in Devcon and float the barrels.
    • Good bedding will provide a more consistent "opposition to recoil" enabling more accuracy.
    • Good bedding will absorb recoil at the recoil lug(s) rather than at the tang where stocks are prone to crack.
    • Floating the barrel will provide better assurance that your rifle will remain sighted in when you step into the hot, dry sub-Saharan African climate. Wood, especially low grade wood used for production rifle can warp enough to put pressure on the barrel throwing off your point of impact.
  • I've read of a couple safety levers breaking. Due to the limited number of those problems identified, it may have been a "bad batch" of safety levers. I do not know if the current production safety levers are made by metal injection molding (MIM). If so, I'd swap those out for a machined part.
  • The triggers are not great but they are acceptable for a hunting rifle. Swap it out for a Timney Trigger if you want the sear to "break like glass".
  • Magazine springs are not as reliable as a Pre-64 Model 70 or Mauser M98 spring.
    • https://www.africahunting.com/threads/winchester-mod-70-super-express-help.73600/post-1024626

Also curious what loads people use for the cartridge, what they think of the cartridge at standard loads, hot loads, and milder loads that may better replicate the .404 Jeffery rather than the .416 Rigby as common reference points. What do ya’ll think of this rifle & cartridge combo?

Boy that's loaded question! The AH forum is a wealth of information and wisdom shared by those who have been there and done that. Please enjoy an hour each day reading old threads and you will be repaid many fold!

• Hot loads? In Africa, no, no, no! What may be at the upper pressure limit of a load on the hottest day where ever you live may very well cause a stuck bolt in Africa! Why? Does your rifle at your home range ever become so hot before you shoot that you cannot touch the barrel? They can and often do in Africa. Add cartridges that are as or nearly as hot and you have a recipe for a single shot rifle. That's not good when you need a second shot!
• One can down load their ammunition for practice, if necessary. I use a PAST recoil pad for practice and sometimes shoot 50+ rounds for .416 and higher recoil cartridges! My last 5 or 10 shots will be without the recoil pad. Downloading a .416 for Africa? Just buy a .375 H&H!
• https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Sup...=past+shoulder+pad&qid=1766230637&sr=8-6&th=1

A CRF Model 70 in .375 H&H is an outstanding rifle that many AH members used to slay more dangerous game than I ever will. This cartridge is great all around from very small to the largest of African game. A 375 in an accurate rifle is good out to 300 yards or more, if the shooter is up to that distance. But, other that South Africa's Easter Cape, nearly all Africa hunting will or at least can be at much closer range. I want to be up close and personal to my game in Africa. The is the thrill of hunting for me! If only I can step so quietly that I don't spook the game!

The same rifle in .416 Remington is in my opinion a good 200 yard rifle providing 25% more energy than a .375 H&H. That increase in not necessary for plains game but when you are 20 yards from an elephant, it would reassuring.

With the 25% additional energy comes additional recoil. There is no free lunch!
See the recoil and Taylor's Knock Out Blow values in the chart below.

• Notice the 375 H&H as 40 lbs foot pounds of recoil energy and the .416 Rem has almost 55 lbs!
  • That's a 37% increase!
  • The recoil velocity of the 416 Rem is 18.3 fps and the 375 H&H is 15.65 fps. That accounts for the extra "sharpness" of recoil of the 416 over the 375.

One has to present a consistent opposition to recoil to maintain accuracy. Personally, I can thread a needle with a .375 H&H. After a hundred rounds or so in practice, a 375 is easy to shoot accurately for most shooters! A .416 Rem or Rigby, not so much. If fact, due to vecoil velocity, I find the recoil of my .458 Win more pleasant than my .416's!

Much like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, between the 375, 416, and 458, I think the 416 is just right for a do-it-all Africa rifle. Your opinions may vary...

 

[fourfive8]

There have been countless discussions here about the Win 70 in 416 Rem. They are in the category where recoil tends to prevent used examples from having their throats/bores shot out. So it is well worth the effort looking around the market for used examples. I’ve owned, reloaded for and shot two a lot- both late New Haven rifles. Still have one. IMO, excellent, all around DG caliber and rifle. 404 Js and 416 Rigbys offer no advantage…. unless hooked on nostalgia and BS fodder for campfire debates.

 

[BJH65]

We bought one about 30 years ago for our first DG Safari In Mozambique, a Winchester M70 416 Rem Mag, the US made New Haven ones. I did zero modifications, just added a Leupold Vari XII 1-4 scope and fired over 200 rds in preparation for our hunt.

It was also used on a plains game safari in SA too. I practiced mostly with 350 grain reloads and used Remington factory 400 grain Swift A Frames and Barnes solids in Africa. The quality of my mid 90’s New Haven M70 was fine, never had any issues but my brother did buy one in 458 Win Mag at the same time and had to replace a faulty mag spring.

I think they are great rifles and perfect for a one rifle battery when hunting both DG and PG. Ballistically it’s identical in performance to the 416 Rigby and similar to the 404 Jeffery but factory ammo is much more available over the 404 Jeffery and cheaper. Availability is similar to 416 Rigby factory ammo but cheaper.

Seems some AH members are complaining about the recent quality of Winchester factory M70 Safari Express rifles. There are always good used rifles for sale and like previously mentioned, with not a lot of rounds fired.

I have extensively shot both CZ 416 Rigby and Winchester M70 416 Rem Mag. Felt recoil feels similar to me. I don’t think you can go wrong in selecting a Winchester M70 416 Rem and mounting a good 1-6 LPVO. I think it’s the perfect choice for a one rifle battery when hunting both DG and PG.

 

[Beefeater]

I got my Portuguese built MOD 70 in .416 Remmag in 2019 and put a Leica 1 - 6 x ontop. The rifle has over 1000 rounds down the barrel and it shoots very accurately. I have used it multiple times in the Zambezi Valley with temps pushing 40 degrees centigrade with no problems. I did have a gunsmith do a bedding job and adjust the trigger lighter. Other than that no further work done or required. As far as loads Barnes 400 gr TTSX over Varget @ 2420 fps has worked very well. It has become my go to rifle and I shoot everything from plainsgame to dangerous game with it.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

The “Rifleman’s Rifle” chambered .416 Remington is a fabulous weapon. The .416 caliber is a beautiful balance between the .375 and .458 ([.375 + .416]/2 = .416). I’ve had two new factory M70 New Haven Classics chambered .416. I still have one. The first .416 shot one-ragged hole at 50 yards, but about 5’ low. Unfortunately, during factory assembly the barrel was installed in the receiver at downward angle thus it was impossible to zero. The second .416 M70 is just fine. The .416 works for both the visiting sportsman and the professional. The M70 is a trim, sleek handsome rifle ideal for the one-gun safari.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My experience is limited to four safaris in RSA so keep that in mind. For whatever reason the 416 Rem does not seem to be very popular over there. Both PH and my safari operator disliked the cartridge. Perhaps because it has American origins? Not very enthusiastic about 458 Win either, possibly for the same reason.

I will make a pitch for 404 Jeffery. Ammo and components are becoming more available, albeit almost exclusively in 400 gr bullets. I am anxious to see what mine will do with 300 and 350 gr bullets. I think Cutting Edge makes even lighter (267 gr?). Cartridges do feed nicely but one must be careful reloading. 404 has a gently sloping shoulder and no belt so one must be precise when setting up dies for resizing or the cartridges won't snap over when dropped in the chamber ( = headspace is off). A dangerous game rifle that won't snap over is not a dangerous game rifle. Model 70 is good for snap over. Some other control round feed varieties not so much (e.g. CZ and some Mausers). I built my 404 on a military surplus standard action Czech 98 Mauser mostly for the challenge. I think it would have been a lot less challenging if I'd built it on a Model 70 donor. I put a Model 70 design 3-position safety on my Mauser because it is quite simply the best designed safety ever ... and probably will be the best forever (exception is the earliest design from pre-WWII which had to be disengaged from left side of the bolt sleeve - at least the ones I've seen). They are quick to access, reliable, and allow the gun to be unloaded while cocked with safety engaged (a useful feature for idiot gun handlers who don't know enough to keep muzzle always pointed in a safe direction).

Of course, 375 H&H is hard to beat. I chose not to build it because cartridge length makes the project even more complicated. If I was looking for a factory made starter thumper rifle, that would definitely be my choice over 404, 416 Rem, or 416 Rigby. Model 70 is easiest to find and really hard to top. Any imperfections with newer models are easily remedied. Anyone can "fix" them with a tiny bit of assistance from the guys on here.

 

[Googleplex]

If you would use the Africa Hunting site's the search function for "Model 70" much information would be revealed.

• Most current production M70's feed very well. Rifles feeding with modern 68% meplat solids may be another outcome.
• Handling? The M70's are not a Heym Martini Express but then one can buy many M70's for the price of a Heym. Their handling is acceptable. To me, M70's feel more lively than the CZ 550 Safari Magnums.
• Felt recoil? This subject is subjective concerning if the stock fits the shooter. One could have the length of pull adjusted to fit them and a Kick Eeze recoil pad added to tame felt recoil.
• Reliability?
  • The M70 action bedding is some type of almost hard goo. Gosh awful stuff but it is functional enough for most shooters. Me, I "pillar bed" my actions in Devcon and float the barrels.
    • Good bedding will provide a more consistent "opposition to recoil" enabling more accuracy.
    • Good bedding will absorb recoil at the recoil lug(s) rather than at the tang where stocks are prone to crack.
    • Floating the barrel will provide better assurance that your rifle will remain sighted in when you step into the hot, dry sub-Saharan African climate. Wood, especially low grade wood used for production rifle can warp enough to put pressure on the barrel throwing off your point of impact.
  • I've read of a couple safety levers breaking. Due to the limited number of those problems identified, it may have been a "bad batch" of safety levers. I do not know if the current production safety levers are made by metal injection molding (MIM). If so, I'd swap those out for a machined part.
  • The triggers are not great but they are acceptable for a hunting rifle. Swap it out for a Timney Trigger if you want the sear to "break like glass".
  • Magazine springs are not as reliable as a Pre-64 Model 70 or Mauser M98 spring.
    • https://www.africahunting.com/threads/winchester-mod-70-super-express-help.73600/post-1024626

Boy that's loaded question! The AH forum is a wealth of information and wisdom shared by those who have been there and done that. Please enjoy an hour each day reading old threads and you will be repaid many fold!

• Hot loads? In Africa, no, no, no! What may be at the upper pressure limit of a load on the hottest day where ever you live may very well cause a stuck bolt in Africa! Why? Does your rifle at your home range ever become so hot before you shoot that you cannot touch the barrel? They can and often do in Africa. Add cartridges that are as or nearly as hot and you have a recipe for a single shot rifle. That's not good when you need a second shot!
• One can down load their ammunition for practice, if necessary. I use a PAST recoil pad for practice and sometimes shoot 50+ rounds for .416 and higher recoil cartridges! My last 5 or 10 shots will be without the recoil pad. Downloading a .416 for Africa? Just buy a .375 H&H!
• https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Super-Plus-Recoil-Shield/dp/B004PS3UIW/ref=sr_1_6?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.t2-Er50EHQZT-_al6DemHQiMlBQvVomyezNJoufFJa1Qj1KNp6sZUILVcWcMzeesCAIGaV4mdJjNCNR2RTLOvUnx2GuT2o_L2AroEmrW3sE24V-jW9k9iraGOyBUeoIdoxIduPzK0Qts8nfX4SPu6svNbjnAe_OLMUugvgG3czxCohW8FpJhdaH-Nxt3srguY0ml_1N6uNVMjesSTkY64whg-xGTcga8PALUL0vMPdb791udU8wO6dCFDcmd-OCMhZs2f85Rs8GUIQziewY-LLLCD23RQO5aYDp1DnSHnts.VK0W5ibmqXQRVARvBjJhfoUyah8nhW2-_hqO5KvovWA&dib_tag=se&keywords=past+shoulder+pad&qid=1766230637&sr=8-6&th=1

A CRF Model 70 in .375 H&H is an outstanding rifle that many AH members used to slay more dangerous game than I ever will. This cartridge is great all around from very small to the largest of African game. A 375 in an accurate rifle is good out to 300 yards or more, if the shooter is up to that distance. But, other that South Africa's Easter Cape, nearly all Africa hunting will or at least can be at much closer range. I want to be up close and personal to my game in Africa. The is the thrill of hunting for me! If only I can step so quietly that I don't spook the game!

The same rifle in .416 Remington is in my opinion a good 200 yard rifle providing 25% more energy than a .375 H&H. That increase in not necessary for plains game but when you are 20 yards from an elephant, it would reassuring.

With the 25% additional energy comes additional recoil. There is no free lunch!
See the recoil and Taylor's Knock Out Blow values in the chart below.

• Notice the 375 H&H as 40 lbs foot pounds of recoil energyand the .416 Rem has almost 55 lbs!
  • That's a 37% increase!
  • The recoil velocity of the 416 Rem is 18.3 fps and the 375 H&H is 15.65 fps. That accounts for the extra "sharpness" of recoil of the 416 over the 375.

One has to present a consistent opposition to recoil to maintain accuracy. Personally, I can thread a needle with a .375 H&H. After a hundred rounds or so in practice, a 375 is easy to shoot accurately for most shooters! A .416 Rem or Rigby, not so much. If fact, due to vecoil velocity, I find the recoil of my .458 Win more pleasant than my .416's!

View attachment 733941

Much like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, between the 375, 416, and 458, I think the 416 is just right for a do-it-all Africa rifle. Your opinions may vary...

Thank you, Mark! This is fantastic info, I appreciate the depth you went into! Lots of good practical advice, the data behind it, and experience there! Greatly appreciated!


Thanks to everyone who has responded, all of you have provided fantastic information, experience, and perspective!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The “Rifleman’s Rifle” chambered .416 Remington is a fabulous weapon. The .416 caliber is a beautiful balance between the .375 and .458 ([.375 + .416]/2 = .416). I’ve had two new factory M70 New Haven Classics chambered .416. I still have one. The first .416 shot one-ragged hole at 50 yards, but about 5’ low. Unfortunately, during factory assembly the barrel was installed in the receiver at downward angle thus it was impossible to zero. The second .416 M70 is just fine. The .416 works for both the visiting sportsman and the professional. The M70 is a trim, sleek handsome rifle ideal for the one-gun safari.

I will correct your math: (375 + 458) ÷ 2 = 416.5 Just trying to help