The Double Barrelled Rifle : Function Versus Form

[1dirthawker]

but how often is that second shot really necessary with modern bullets and propellant, or for that matter with a second armed person in your party ready to assist?

Mr Greene,

its only necessary when you need it! I suspect ivw would be among the most experienced among us to comment.

Mr Rahman,
i would like to hear tales of guar, thank you!

 

[Major Khan]

Excellent write up Major Khan, I would like a double rifle, but for the cost of one, I could do a lot of hunting with my bolt action.

I am glad that you have enjoyed the article , Master Smith . I think you will not feel lacking with your Winchester Model 70 bolt rifles either . They are some of the most reliable rifles in existence .

 

[Major Khan]

Mr Greene,

its only necessary when you need it! I suspect ivw would be among the most experienced among us to comment.

Mr Rahman,
i would like to hear tales of guar, thank you!

Consider it done , 1dirthawker. The next story will feature a gaur.

 

[perttime]

I have been wondering about the speed of the second shot. Has anybody measured the time it takes to fire a second aimed shot with double barrel vs. bolt action gun - and hit a target?

Some highly competent bolt action shooters claim that they can work the bolt during recoil, and then fire a second shot as soon as the big bore bolt action rifle is back on target, after recoil.

Devices that measure shot times to 0.01 second are now in wide spread use in sport shooting.

 

[Major Khan]

I have been wondering about the speed of the second shot. Has anybody measured the time it takes to fire a second aimed shot with double barrel vs. bolt action gun - and hit a target?

Some highly competent bolt action shooters claim that they can work the bolt during recoil, and then fire a second shot as soon as the big bore bolt action rifle is back on target, after recoil.

Devices that measure shot times to 0.01 second are now in wide spread use in sport shooting.

You raise an excellent point , Pert time . Indeed , many competent users of bolt rifles can operate a bolt , chamber a 2nd cartridge and fire a 2nd shot , virtually as fast as an operator of a double barreled rifle can pull the 2nd trigger. During the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971 , many of our freedom fighters who used the .303 calibre British Lee Enfield bolt rifles , could operate the bolt so fast that we would think that they were firing semi automatic rifles . And they were ferociously accurate with the rifles as well. For most Indian dangerous game , l can confidently say that a bolt rifle can match a double barreled rifle neck to neck . However , only when a shikaree ( usually a professional shikaree , but occasionally we had really daring clients as well ) is pursuing a wounded panther into the thickets for a follow up , is when a double barreled weapon actually necessary .
My late shikar partner , Tobin Stakkatz was the exception to this rule . He always followed up all of his wounded panthers with his FN .423 Mauser calibre bolt rifle and never got mauled by a panther in his career . Tobin's logic was " At the ranges where you are getting charged by Mr. Spots , it's impossible to miss with your 1st shot " .
Nevertheless , for following up wounded panthers into the thickets , l always preferred a double barreled weapon .

 

[perttime]

... Tobin's logic was " At the ranges where you are getting charged by Mr. Spots , it's impossible to miss with your 1st shot " .
Nevertheless , for following up wounded panthers into the thickets , l always preferred a double barreled weapon .

A double is usually shorter too, so easier to handle and swing in the bushes.

It is surprising, what kind of targets people manage to miss in shooting contests where both points and time count. Paper targets will not shoot or bite you, though. We can hope that Mr. Spots coming at you refines your focus on hitting.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Mr Greene,

its only necessary when you need it! I suspect ivw would be among the most experienced among us to comment.

Mr Rahman,
i would like to hear tales of guar, thank you!

Haha, I don't think anyone's ever called me "Mr Greene" before. Webley is fine! (Neither are my name, the W.G. revolver is just a favorite handgun of mine.)

And yes, I'd agree it's only necessary when you'd need it. I would be interested in finding out just how quickly some single-shots could be reloaded, aimed, and fired effectively. All I own is a Trapdoor Springfield carbine and it's not the fastest but I wonder about a falling-block action.

 

[Major Khan]

Haha, I don't think anyone's ever called me "Mr Greene" before. Webley is fine! (Neither are my name, the W.G. revolver is just a favorite handgun of mine.)

And yes, I'd agree it's only necessary when you'd need it. I would be interested in finding out just how quickly some single-shots could be reloaded, aimed, and fired effectively. All I own is a Trapdoor Springfield carbine and it's not the fastest but I wonder about a falling-block action.

Isn't the Springfield Trap door carbine the same rifle that was used by the 7th Cavalry led by General Custer into the ill fated Battle of Little Big Horn ?

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Isn't the Springfield Trap door carbine the same rifle that was used by the 7th Cavalry led by General Custer into the ill fated Battle of Little Big Horn ?

They were indeed, although one of the principle failures of the weapon in some combat situations was the ammunition used rather than the rifle itself. Rapidly running through the black-powder .45-70 made the copper casings and rifles heat up so much that the cartridge walls expanded in the chambers and got stuck, and the thin rims would get ripped off the cartridge base by the extractor when the "trapdoor" was opened, so the cavalrymen had difficulty reloading after heavy fire. Partially as a result, the US redesigned the .45-70 to have a stronger brass case. I believe I've read that there was a similar issue with either the breechloading Snider Enfields or the Martini-Henry's ammunition the British were using, but it was something to do with the way the casings were formed that caused them to rupture in the chamber rather than a materials issue and a redesign of the forming process resulted in a stronger casing

 

[Forrest Halley]

I would be interested in finding out just how quickly some single-shots could be reloaded, aimed, and fired effectively. All I own is a Trapdoor Springfield carbine and it's not the fastest but I wonder about a falling-block action.

Well I'll be your Huckleberry as soon as I get my sights sorted on the Lott. The range of 25 yards for say a four inch bull seem fair? I am going to sort a caddie of some design to hold the ammo for follow up shots. I shall also have to sort the safety as it hangs the brass. I'm hoping to find a stainless steel aftermarket so I can skip getting a spare Ruger and modifying it. I really like the Legendary Arms design.
The downfall of the trapdoor is the action strength. They are quite fast if the ammo is properly staged.
Ejection is similar to the No. 1. Fallible.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Well I'll be your Huckleberry as soon as I get my sights sorted on the Lott. The range of 25 yards for say a four inch bull seem fair? I am going to sort a caddie of some design to hold the ammo for follow up shots. I shall also have to sort the safety as it hangs the brass. I'm hoping to find a stainless steel aftermarket so I can skip getting a spare Ruger and modifying it. I really like the Legendary Arms design.
The downfall of the trapdoor is the action strength. They are quite fast if the ammo is properly staged.
Ejection is similar to the No. 1. Fallible.

Sounds good to me! I don't think I'd use a Trapdoor myself, but mostly because it's not as strong as a falling-block and would probably have trouble with a heftier Nitro Express cartridge. Instead I've been considering a C. Sharps 1885 High Wall or Remington-Hepburn in .450 or .470 Nitro; even if it didn't turn out to be an ideal rifle for hunting it'd still be a fun addition to my gun rack and I bet it'd make a helluva loud thump at the range, too.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

For the very reason of cost, my first big bore was a Ruger No1 in 375 H&H. Why the Ruger and not a bolt action? To be honest I have always loved the look of the Ruger No1, but everything I read extolled the reliability of this rifle, the one shot would definitely go off! I fitted a Leica 1-6.4x24 red dot DG scope and shot my first and only buffalo so far with this excellent rifle, and zebra and plains game since. I have since acquired a Verney Carron o/u light double in 375 Flanged Magnum but only have range experience so far. It was configured for open sights and it is so perfect a pointer that i have decided to leave it that way. Initial findings are that, probably due to the perfect fit, this little rifle is certainly accurate enough for sub 100m hunting, and absolutely capable of fast and accurate shots on charging targets. The upcoming season will fill the story out, but being a nostalgia buff who hunts from a tented camp i am absolutely thrilled with my double in this classic calibre. It is beautifully made, didn't cost a vast fortune and handles and shoots like a dream.

 

[Fastrig]

Major Kahn, thank you for yet another lovely and informative article. Please keep them coming

 

[Major Khan]

Major Kahn, thank you for yet another lovely and informative article. Please keep them coming

Why , thank you so much for your kind words ... Fastrig .

 

[Bonk]

Sorry for resurrecting a slightly older thread but it was a great read and I have one small comment.

Even the one universally accepted advantage of the double rife has a rather important limitation that never gets mentioned. What if you need more than one quick follow up shot? It's wonderful if the second barrel gets the job done but what about when you need a third or a fourth or a fifth? As soon as a third shot becomes necessary the limited capacity of the double becomes a big disadvantage. I'm sure some hunters can reload a double pretty quickly but can they get the third and fourth rounds in play as fast as a typical bolt action shooter?

I'm not knocking the double rifle. I have one and I'm a fan. I'm just suggesting that having one extremely fast follow up shot may not be as good as having several almost as fast follow up shots.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Take your double and your bolt to the range and try them on the charging buffalo, lion or leopard and you will have answered your own question.

 

[Tanks]

Take your double and your bolt to the range and try them on the charging buffalo, lion or leopard and you will have answered your own question.

I'm not knocking the double rifle. I have one and I'm a fan. I'm just suggesting that having one extremely fast follow up shot may not be as good as having several almost as fast follow up shots.

Exactly, if you NEED more than two shots FAST you are most likely screwed. Also, maybe having only two shots just might make one make those count?

Not to mention there are those that also hunt with single shot rifles.

 

[machinistbutler]

One of our members here on AH posted some videos of shooting a double vs a bolt for four shots. I think he could shoot and reload to get the four shots off faster than the bolt action.

Would take lots of practice , but man he could reload that double quickly. If I can find the thread I will link it.

Under pressure of something charging that could claw or stomp you it may not be as easy, but I guess that is where a lot of practice helps. I have seen people totally muck up reloading a bolt action in a hurry when they are excited.

 

[steve white]

Continuing this double rifle thread, I wish to throw another monkey wrench into the discussion--that of the unreliability of old Kynoch ammunition. Not only was there a lot of blue sky to begin with in published velocities--what of diminished potency, much less hang fires, mis fires of older ammo. Even the Win 458 compressed loaded turned to squibs after being over compressed so long that they didn't get a reliable burn. AND...any diff in burn rate would automatically become a regulation issue, would it not in a side by side?

 

[ducmarc]

I read theses stories of charging animals having never been in that situation.seems except for the ph the follow up shot is useless muzzle rise must at least a foot on my double or my rigby.so if u panick and make a poor shot on the first one what's the chances of the second. practice makes a second shot productive.i never drop my rifle to reload if u do that ur done.thats where the double is a plus.i practice magazine dumps on all my rifles and never drop the rifle to chamber a round.