Shot Opportunity - What is that exactly?

siml

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This is after all AH, the thread was about "shot opportunity" so lets rather get back to the topic and not be like the other site where bashing people is the norm.
 

curtism1234

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Email is written, that's the same as hand shake in my book. If you don't trust that...then like I say, I wouldn't want to hunt with you.

@jeff if a person is going to get nitty gritty talking outfitter or client over a max of 100$ wine/beer....I seriously have to laugh.

It's not about money, it's about hard feelings.

A client can have a wonderful week and pissing match at the very end for 100 bucks can ruin it.

This certainly applies to the original topic when you start talking thousands of dollars.

But yes, I am finished with the debate too.
 

siml

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@curtism1234 that's exactly what I said...I wouldn't even bother charging for alcohol. So by doing that, I won't be in a pissing match after the hunt.
 

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I can't seem to recall my Raspberry and Rum bar tab.
 

rookhawk

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Here's my take on all of this: AfricaHunting.com encourages (through advertisement) thinking that leads to all sorts of problems like this. If you want to avoid any and all of these problems:

A.) Find a really, really competent PH that has bonafides to work in many countries
B.) Have a great time with him on your first hunt.
C.) Show your loyalty by not pricing out other Africa trips with competitors because you found a really good PH in point A.) above
D.) In subsequent trips to Africa you can use the same PH, usually with a handshake and no deposits or weird contract language.
E.) You are now doing business with a friend instead of a firm.

I can't tell you how often I see references on AH for "had an amazing time", "XYZ PH was fantastic", "loved every minute!", and then 6 months later those same people are shopping for a new hunt with a different outfit. Russian roulette for all parties involved with a new relationship. Hence, PHs have silly contract rules like this thread because they have no idea if the client is a maniac.

Jumping from PH to PH without good cause from trip to trip is nothing more than "safari adultery". :)

Just my take.
 

BRICKBURN

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Here's my take on all of this: AfricaHunting.com encourages (through advertisement) thinking that leads to all sorts of problems like this. .............. .

I know you did not encounter your first Outfitter or PH through divine intervention one evening while you sat on the throne having a vision.
You picked up a magazine and read an ad, went to a show, talked to someone who read an offer, etc.
We all start our education somewhere.

"Encourages thinking that leads to problems"? o_O

In a bid for transparency I brought this one up. An educated hunter is more likely to avoid problems in the first place. Like J's thread on "Better" questions to ask the Outfitter.

Outfitters write their own copy.
That copy exposes their concerns or experiences in their next hunt offer, no matter what the medium. As you duly noted in your earlier post. ie. Dickhead banker. we are not in a vacuum and these guys exist. I personally could not even imagine pretending to hunt like the nightmare scenario you presented. I try and avoid narcissistic personality disorders in my daily life and apparently the "opportunity" offer wording is trying to do the same, while also avoiding not being paid to boot.
 

rookhawk

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@BRICKBURN I didn't mean it as a personal dig on AH, I meant more generally it is an ad based website like most others. We are consumers, it caters to consumerism in that we have banner ads with lots of new and exciting hunts, etc, etc.

I'm only pointing out that in this world of "bigger better discounts" and this world of fleeting, temporary friendships, there is a better way. If you hunt with a stranger as your PH once and things go well, you need not hunt with a stranger ever again. A good PH with good credentials should be able to take you almost everywhere in Africa. We can save a lot of heartache and contract language reviews if we stick with those we trust.

Hopefully my clarifications will unruffle any feathers I hadn't intended to ruffle at this time. :)
 

jeff

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I like meeting different people and trying new areas and have met many great people that I now call friends, some I've hunted with multiple times and some just once but would like to again. I prefer to hunt with owner operators that have a home base and not bounce all over.
 

JamesJ

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You always need to know what you are getting into, whether its trophy fees, alcohol or shirts. Good communication and items clearly spelled out in the contract or quote. if there is a question clarify it, before you stroke the check.

On the alcohol note, I had two clients go to camp in '16 on a 8 day hunt. The outfitter's policy is "beer, wine and spirits in moderation". The clients drank $1,500 in alcohol during the course of the hunt, in the outfitters opinion that was excessive and billed them for it. In their opinion it was not excessive, obviously they are both alcoholics and after a brief discussion the outfitter removed the charge. Moderation is in the eye of the beholder, just another instance where things need to be clear before hand.
 

Mekaniks

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I don't think I could book a PG hunt (or even most DG hunts) with an outfitter if trophy fees had to be paid based "opportunity". Way to much grey area for me personally.

I think hunter/Outfitter/PH/agent relationships are very important in this indusry and I like hunting with familiar people in familiar places. Kind of like hunting the same deer stand on the same property every opening day, it's comfortable. But, I also want to explore and meet new people in new areas and use my previous experiences to help build the new experiences.

And yes "alcohol in moderation" is also a red flag for me;)
 

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Jumping from PH to PH without good cause from trip to trip is nothing more than "safari adultery"
@rookhawk not everybody can afford the luxury of a "PH marriage"
My next trip will be safari adultery but that is just how I like it. I want to go and see different biomes, meet different people and I enjoy the planning. Yes it may come unstuck but some good planning will hopefully reduce the risk.
The topic has made me think a bit different about a single species safari and to make sure both myself and outfitter are clear about "Shot opportunity- what is it exactly?"
 
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rookhawk

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24 beers before lunch.

Is that a challenge, or a recollection of the facts? Lol.

I hope these guys weren't loaded all day? I once had a sip of beer between shots on a sundown sand grouse shoot and felt like I had just committed a cardinal sin. 24 beers...that'd make any man invincible!
 

JamesJ

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Is that a challenge, or a recollection of the facts? Lol.

I hope these guys weren't loaded all day? I once had a sip of beer between shots on a sundown sand grouse shoot and felt like I had just committed a cardinal sin. 24 beers...that'd make any man invincible!

That was per person before lunch. I wouldn't hunt with them.
 

jeff

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$750 per man for 8 days is certainly not in moderation!! What would those guys have thought was excessive?
 

LivingTheDream

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Opportunity is tricky and wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable with that. For example, if you stalk buffalo and they take off, technically you have the opportunity to shoot one in the ass. But that is not much of an opportunity.

Also, I can see the outfitters point, if some guy is going to pass mature animal after mature animal it is a bit tough. But as Brickburn suggested the outfitter is probably going to resell the hunt and this creates the dangerous scenario of ghost hunting.
 
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LivingTheDream

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"Safari Adultery" should be its own thread. As soon as I finished my first safari, I talked with the outfitter USA rep and had the normal follow up conversations. Mention an elephant and I got all types of quotes for exportable elephants. Told them I couldn't afford that and was wondering what they had non exportable tuskless, and basically they could do a PAC hunt that I thought was over priced. Now I feel no obligation to book with them for this hunt, as I gave them first shot and they didn't offer what I wanted. I did book with a sponsor here and had a great hunt. It all depends what you are after and what the outfitter offers.
 

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Certainly the contract language as originally presented by Brickburn would need to be clarified. I think this issue is more of a concern when the Client (hunter) and the Outfitter/ PH don't know each other. Both parties are entitled to their own realistic expectations. These need to be fully discussed and understood by both parties PRIOR to the hunt. From my limited experience it seems that Outfitters/PHs will bend over backwards to satisfy a client. Repeat business and or recommendations is the name of the game. Neither will happen if a client feels that "he" has been cheated.
Good point, it may simply be a matter of language which can easily be clarified. I know a lot of the outfitters and PH's in Africa are working in 2-4 languages which may not be their native tongue and translations have been problematic since the Tower of Babel.
 

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