Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

Definitely dinosaurs here now. I've been identified and called one numerous times. I guess it's because I'm on the back nine.
 
I disagree. Because like many you only comprehend a day being 24 hours, a week being made up of 7 - 24 hour days, a year being 12 - months.

I'll revert to a post I made in this thread:

Time,.... Time,.....
When time began.....When did "time" begin?. How was time measured when time began?.

Man created the hours, the days, the weeks, the months, the years. But What is/was GOD'S time? in creating Earth?

By The Bible's measure a new day starts when darkness turns to light again. Thus at daylight a day begins then the daylight turns to darkness. The day ends and a new day begins when the darkness turns to light again. There is no man made/proclaimed midnight by which one day ends and another begins.

By our current human time standards GOD'S 6 days could have been registered in millenials.

Hypothetically speaking: when the great asteroid(s) hit the earth it (they) knocked the earth out of its original orbit into its current orbit changing earth's time; the lengths of daylight and darkness.

I don’t ignore the genealogies, I question that man's lack of time comparison to GOD's time in creating the earth.

The Earth is billions of years old.
GOD created the earth in 6 days, 6000 years ago.
:unsure::unsure:
It’s spelled out quite plainly.
 
The debate always returns to this doesn't it - to the implied - I'm a better Christian than you.

I never called God a liar. I merely reject the time scale man, not God, created to try and define something they had no means of comprehending. I used St. Augustine as the earliest example of whom I am aware who was fully cognizant of this difference between cultural stories inspired by God's work and known truth. I think most would consider St. Augustine a very good Christian indeed, and he was far, far closer to the events described than anyone typing in this discussion.

Of course I can't point to the true age of the universe in the Bible because the human beings who wrote that story had no concept of it. That does nothing to change the facts of the age of this planet, the length of man's occupation of it, or the allegorical beauty that is at the heart of the creation story itself. There is no conflict in my mind with regard to those parallel truths. I would add most Christian denominations would have no argument with that conclusion.

You can believe anything you wish and just as unquestionably as you are comfortable doing so. I would simply encourage you to be cautious about too much finger pointing and self-assurance of your superior understanding of our shared faith.

You really should look into that heretical St. Augustine fellow.
After reading your many posts I don’t think we have a shared faith.. I never said he was a heretic..
 
May God bless you and yours.

The bible was written by men, there are diversions between churches on what should be included and not ( more hand of man nonsense).

There is perversion to control people.

The bible is a document you can use to build your relationship with the Creator.

It does not discount hundreds of millions of years of history on this planet.
Written by men under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Hundreds of millions of years is absolutely and completely discounted by the Bible.
 
I would argue that Ken Hamm <sp?> and the creation museum has done more to push people away from faith than Anton LeVay and Aleister Crowley.

The amount of "reading in" to what isn't written in Genesis by the young earthers borders on heresy. It also is a total affront to any credible scholarship of biblical Hebrew.

1. Just looking at what the text says in Genesis 1, there are at least three different kinds of days. The first three days are of unknown duration because the Sun and Moon don’t appear until day 4. The next three are governed by the “two great lights.” Day 7 is different because it has no “evening and morning.” Given this disparity in how the Bible characterizes the various days of creation, I agree with St. Augustine that “What kind of days these are is difficult or even impossible for us to imagine, to say nothing of describing them.”

2. Given that the seventh day is not closed out in Genesis 1 or 2, it continues today. Consider God’s words to the nation of Israel in Psalm 95:11, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ” Hebrews 4:1–11 connects this declaration back to creation day 7, and then says that we can enter God’s rest today. If the seventh day encompasses far longer than 24 hours, it seems likely that the first six do also.

3. In Genesis 1, the biblical author uses the word for day (yom) with multiple different meanings. Genesis 1:3–5 uses yom for the daylight portion of the day. Genesis 1:14–19 uses yom to mean a “24-hour” day. Genesis 2:4 uses the word yom to refer to the entire creation week. So the big question remains: when the author uses yom for the first day, the second day, etc, what is the proper meaning?

4. The activities of day 6 described in Genesis 2 argue for a much longer period of time than 24 hours. God created Adam, placed him in the garden to tend it, commanded him not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, had Adam name the animals in order to show Adam that he was alone, caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, performed some form of biopsy, fashioned Eve, and presented her to Adam. Genesis 1:24–31 indicates that this all happened in the later portion of the day. In reading multiple translations of Genesis 2:23, at least part of Adam’s response includes “At last, someone suitable for me.” This statement implies a lengthy passage of time.

So lets be literalist about Genesis since fundamentalists like literalism.

On the seventh day, Adam first went and named all the animals. How many animals exist today? There are 8.7 Million species on the planet TODAY. Roughly 770 Million to several BILLION animals have existed over all time on planet earth.

So lets get this straight, Adam spent the first part of the 6th day naming ALL the animals. Even if you just abridge it to "kinds" of animals which wouldn't be literal it would be tens of thousands of animals. Assuming they all assembled single-file for this naming activity, the time required to utter a name for each of the animals that lived in the Fertile Crescent between the Tigris and Euphrates would take decades.

But what does the bible say? In Genesis 2:19 it literally says the following: Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

That to a literalist must be a VERY busy morning!!!

But somehow Adam managed to name ALL the animals in that morning, but amidst that mathematically long process he replied in Genesis 2:23 that God then created eve and Adam replied "At last, someone suitable for me.” What do you mean "AT LAST" literalists? It was a busy morning and you're acting like you were waiting a VERY long time for a companion?

What if ALL the animals of the garden only totaled 100,000 kinds? To utter them nonstop one after another without rest as if counting to 100,000 would take FORTY hours without break.


Fundamentalists claim they are literalists, but as you can see they do not literally believe what is actually written, because their beliefs do not adhere to exactly what was written. They build a scaffold on mistranslation and inferences that are not their regarding the Hebrew word Yom.

Hebrew is a very allegorical language. Yom is an especially figurative word used to describe eras, epochs, dates, groups of days, and general periods of time.
You love to twist Scripture don’t you? Yet again you are conflating Genesis 1 and 2 and misusing them.. For someone so adamant I don’t think you’ve done one hour of earnest or honest research into the opposing view.
 
You really don’t see it, do you? A scientist goes where the data leads, just the opposite of what you’re doing.

What you’re doing is bending the science to the fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible. Canopy theories. Apparent age. The lineage of Adam must be 6500 years in absolute terms.

I wouldn’t care to worship a god that is a deceiver, creating a false geological record, false background radiation, false red-shift, a false fossil record, false creatures in false amber.

You’re reading the Bible as a scientific treatise which it never purported to be. As such, you’re painting your god into a very Luciferian mode where he created a deceptive universe where the senses and basics of scientific inquiry are not true.

This is EXACTLY what Mary Baker Eddy and the Christian Science Church had to surmise to serve their beliefs. Matter is an illusion, nothing is real, therefore it is worthless to subject any claim to scientific inquiry or the scientific method.
I hope you come around one day. You can’t see past your pride
 
For those who believe in the Bible's every word's literal interpretation I'll skip the question of how many minutes in the first seven days of planet Earth and point to a simpler quandary. Joshua 10 12-14 discusses an event that viewed from 4th - 10th century BC would cause little concern, but given present understanding of the universe causes one to think that maybe things didn't happen exactly as written.
If you don’t believe God is omnipotent you wouldn’t believe that either. Makes sense
 
@Red Leg. The above was wrong of me to post. Let me correct myself and clarify/expound upon that statement.

Genuine saving faith does endure and persevere. Obviously everyone of faith has at least one crisis of faith to some extent and there will always be something someone struggles with believing or grasping.

A visit to a natural history museum or science museum (or various school/college classes) can cause a crisis for a child or at the very least a lot of questions. That’s perfectly normal and natural when faced with lies that try to contradict their beliefs or the truth they’ve been taught. There always has been and always will be opposition to the truth. These things are a normal part of Christian life.

Parents/Sunday school teachers/pastors are supposed to teach the Biblical truth (THE TRUTH). When you teach a child that they can believe what the world teaches on old earth and evolution you are teaching them falsehoods and setting them up for actual crises of faith that can actually imperil their eternal soul ( if they’ve not already come to genuine faith/saving faith). Not only are you teaching them falsehoods, you are also teaching them to doubt the rest of the Bible and that they can’t trust it. It’s quite egregious..
I leave you to it. As both a believer and lifelong student of the reality of our universe, I can not imagine another deciding to live in a form of willful ignorance that was recognized as such as early as the fifth century by one of the most celebrated minds of our faith. What is worse is working to coerce children into a similar abandonment of knowledge, something which most will eventually reject - sadly along with, as St. Augustine warned, the church itself.
 
I leave you to it. As both a believer and lifelong student of the reality of our universe, I can not imagine another deciding to live in a form of willful ignorance that was recognized as such as early as the fifth century by one of the most celebrated minds of our faith. What is worse is working to coerce children into a similar abandonment of knowledge, something which most will eventually reject - sadly along with, as St. Augustine warned, the church itself.
You’re a believer? You can’t even say Christ is the only source of salvation, don’t believe in God’s Word and likely don’t engage in any fellowship. “Our faith” nothing you’ve posted in this dumpster fire has given me any inclination that we share a common faith.. From what I can tell you’re just a deist, which means nothing.

You can’t imagine eh? You’re living in willful disobedience and, like rookhawk, can’t see past your pride. On the topic of children, I sincerely hope your son attends an actual Bible believing church.
 
Public service announcement the no trespassing signs on my properties now also cover extra terrestrial beings and they should expect the same treatment as any and all other trespassers.

Side bar: Is it racially insensitive to name barn cats after Chinese restaurants dishes ? The wife tells me Wonton and egg roll are not appropriate names for barn kittens.
Thank you for a Good Laugh!
 
Most of this thread has been good for comedic relief, almost as good as Lighter Politics.
 
If you don’t believe God is omnipotent you wouldn’t believe that either. Makes sense
i infer from your statement that you believe the actions of the sun as observed in Joshua happened just as written. That would mean that the sun, which is traveling on it's orbit around the Milky Way at millions of miles per hour, STOPPED. Additionally the Earth which is also traveling on its orbit around the sun at thousands of miles per hour STOPPED. All of those objects and inhabitants on the surface of the Earth and the waters of the seas also STOPPED with no effects of the inertia. THEN at the end of the hour, EVERYTHING re-accelerated to the original speeds with no adverse effects.
You REALLY believe that hapened?
 
Catching up on this thread made me think again of Christopher Hitchens, which brought to mind the funniest religious joke I heard him tell:

"Why did the young Amish girl get kicked out of her small but devout community?

It was over two Mennonite (two men a night)."

:cool:
 

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