Powders, primers, bullets,.....prices and lack there of....and what substitutes?

sestoppelman

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For your M1 the range is usually around IMR3031 to no slower than 4320, Varget, R15 range. The problem with slower powders is the pressure curve peaks at the wrong time for the op rod, and bent or busted rods start to appear. Its not common but its a good idea to stick with medium burn rate powders. I talked with Federal once about this. Their 168 gr Match load which seems like a good load for an M1 is not, they said so. I pulled the bullets on a couple of them. The rounds I pulled down had over 54 grs of a weird looking non canister powder that according to their specs was running at 2700 fps. So doing a little book looking, it appeared that good old 4350 with 54 grs produced about 2700 fps, so the powder they are using is a close relative to 4350 which is a tad slow for the M1 gas system.
 

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I built up a large surplus after the last shortage but have actually sold and traded off much of my IMR stock for Hodgdon comps.

Your Garand should also like 46-47 gr 4895 (either flavor) under a 150-155 FMJ or standard cup and core spire softpoint. My 45 ACPs have always liked a med load of fast powder under a 185 jacketed. Try Trailboss in the ACP if available- works well.

This shortage seems spotty and is hard to second guess as to what to grab en mass if found. But Varget is one of the powders that seems to go missing pretty quickly when it shows at a supplier or LGS.

I have successfully converted practically all my IMR powders to Hodgdon counterparts.

Powders like H4895 and Varget seem to be some of the most versatile. For slightly overbore cals or for where a little slower may be better 4831SC or H4350 would also be good to grab if found.

I built a good supply of primers a few years ago so haven’t kept up on them but I did recently bolster my supply of both musket caps and CCI 34s- just in case. I’ve discovered that CCI 34s are an excellent Large Rifle Magnum primer.

To round out the hoarding quest, maybe some Trailboss, 5744 and 2400 wouldn’t hurt. Until about 2 months ago I had accumulated over 18 lbs of Trailboss- I can’t imagine ever shooting that much but recently it proved to be very handy for trading material. :)


Thanks for the recipe for the Garand, I'll give it a try. Alond with the TrailBoss in the 45 ACP. I have been reloading Unique but looking for a better option/recipe, using 230 grain JHP.
 

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For your M1 the range is usually around IMR3031 to no slower than 4320, Varget, R15 range. The problem with slower powders is the pressure curve peaks at the wrong time for the op rod, and bent or busted rods start to appear. Its not common but its a good idea to stick with medium burn rate powders. I talked with Federal once about this. Their 168 gr Match load which seems like a good load for an M1 is not, they said so. I pulled the bullets on a couple of them. The rounds I pulled down had over 54 grs of a weird looking non canister powder that according to their specs was running at 2700 fps. So doing a little book looking, it appeared that good old 4350 with 54 grs produced about 2700 fps, so the powder they are using is a close relative to 4350 which is a tad slow for the M1 gas system.

Thanks for the info on a recipe. Is this IMR4350 or Accurate 4350?

Interesting...the Hornady rep ....said to keep velocities between 2300-2600fps in the Garand. Using medium burning powders to prevent broken/bent rods. And Although '....... SST's are a hunting bullet, they might do well in the Garand, any of the 150 grain, 168 grain soft points would probably be a better choice due to keeping velocities and pressures lower than normally in "bolt" guns.'

Thereby he recommend Longshot or Varget or any powder of similar type...burn rate and pressure.

Seems I'll be testing some factory loads of military ammo through the chronograph as well. Then look into recipes to duplicate the load velocity and pressure.
 

sestoppelman

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IMR4350.. Not sure about Longshot, thought that was pistol powder, but Varget is fine. Its not really about velocity, but about port pressure and curve. Good M1 velocities can be had with the correct combinations. There is lots of good reading out there on it.
Good pointed bullets especially with small or no exposed lead are best, but the new polymer tips are good also.
I ended up building a match quality load with the 4350 and 168 Sierras for a Win 70 Police in '06 when I tried that Match load in it and it shot really well, that's what got me to pull some loads to see what they were.
 

Ridge Runner

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IMR4350.. Not sure about Longshot, thought that was pistol powder, but Varget is fine. Its not really about velocity, but about port pressure and curve. Good M1 velocities can be had with the correct combinations. There is lots of good reading out there on it.
Good pointed bullets especially with small or no exposed lead are best, but the new polymer tips are good also.
I ended up building a match quality load with the 4350 and 168 Sierras for a Win 70 Police in '06 when I tried that Match load in it and it shot really well, that's what got me to pull some loads to see what they were.

I had to check to be sure.

Check out Ron Reiber, Hornady, at trapshooters.com, Longshot Powder Promblems, dtd Feb 12, 2014.

Longshot was designed for shotgunners for use in field loads. Longshot is a relatively consistant "fast" (for shotgunners) burning powder.

Accordingly the gun club's neighbors are complaining the gun club is too noisy and the gun club shooter's are complaining Longshot is to noisy.

Ron's response; when longshot is loaded beyond its recommended fps (referring to shotgun competition shooters vs shotgun hunting) "it is a noisy load". And he is telling those shooter's complaining, quit loading heavy field loads when your shooting competition, stick to the standard-medium loads and the noise will be equivalent to 800X loads and the neighbors won't be complaining.

Got a little confused old age does that from time to time, your previous thread referred to using 46-47 grains of either favor of 4895, that 4350 is too slow of a powder.

IMR 4350 is what I use as an alternative to IMR 4064 when reloading my other 30-06's, 375 and previously 458WM.

For the 458WM I switched over to H335.

I'll start testing Garand loads with H335 and as you recommended with IMR 4895.

Since reading the aforementioned article I'll save the Longshot for reloading waterfowl shotshells.
 

shootist~

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Longshot is my fav powder for 28 ga.

Montana Gold was showing stock on .45 cal 230 gr HPs last I looked. Case of 1,900.
I've used those as well as their 230 gr round nose in the past with good results back when I did the the gun games.
These are not expanding self defense bullets, just part of the manufacturing process.
 

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@Ridge Runner, I just purchased an 8 lbs jug of IMR-4350 from Graf & Sons. They had a good supply of some powders. May want to give them a shot.
 

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I kinda saw this coming as well, due to the upcoming election.......Covid only helped it to snowball. Fortunately, when things started coming available, I bought them.....whether I needed them or not; right now I'm sitting pretty good on both ammo and reloading components. I remember when lead shot was $11-$12/ 25lb bag......the Chinese started buying up all the scrap metals and now it's shot to $50-$60/25lb bag!! Been thinking about getting a shotmaker, but they are a bit cost prohibitive. I do cast for pistol, rifle, muzzleloader, buckshot, and slug, so I am O.K. there. Primers and powder are my biggest concern.

A lot of stores in my area are starting to have bare shelves......mostly on handgun and military type (.223, 7.62x39, 308) ammo. Some ammo that used to be relatively easy to find in my neck of the woods is next to impossible to find (.35 Remington, .32 Win. Special, .300 Savage, etc). Apparently, people no longer hunt with these rounds, so the ammo makers aren't finding it profitable to produce and are only making "seasonal runs" (and small batches, at that!).

I did quit doing business with those folks who were price gouging during the last round of shortages during the Obama administration...........I just found out the other day that there is a "new" way of price qouging. I wanted to buy some (1000) small pistol primers, and then guy behind the counter said that the only way he would sell them to me is if I bought an additional 100 bullets and 2 lbs of powder! Since I didn't need 100 bullets OR two pounds of powder I passed...........I always thought that it was illegal to make people buy something that they DIDN'T need in order to get something that the DID need. At any rate, I'm no longer doing business with that gun store any more.

Good luck to all during these times..................I hope you eventually find what you need.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

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This is another potential source. During the Obama years when powder was so hard to find, these guys often had what I needed or had it soon enough.

 

Tanks

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For 45 ACP practice bullets, Montana Gold Bullets has 185 gr JHPs. Full case only (2,300) -which happens to be what I load. One case incoming. Nothing else shows in stock. As an FYI, their price includes freight.

I use SNS casting polymer coated lead bullets both for .40 S&W and .45 ACP does not foul up the barrel and uses less powder for the same velocity as jacketed bullets. Very accurate as well in my guns.

For .45 ACP it is $93 per thousand a bit less for .40 S&W.

I load them by the thousands.
1596639274982.png
 

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shootist~

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@Tanks ,
That's a new name for me. I used to run the 200 gr SWC "Black Bullet" for practice as well as matches. Probably similar to the SNS. I still have a case stuck back for rainy days.

After the last barrel replacement on the Springer, I decided to just stick with Jacketed.
 

PARA45

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@Tanks, thanks for sharing your source. I checked them out and their prices are not bad at all, specially during these times.
 

Ridge Runner

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This is another potential source. During the Obama years when powder was so hard to find, these guys often had what I needed or had it soon enough.


Yes they are on my list as a supplier for my reloading needs. I haven't checked with them yet.
 

fourfive8

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Yes Bruno in Pho AZ is a well known supplier for certain items. They were my regular supplier for 22 rf match ammo when doing that game. They seemed to be pretty easy to deal with. I did check with them a couple of months ago when trying to run down a few extra pounds of Varget when this latest shortage hit in earnest but they were out like most everyone.

The average price for components from more reputable dealers doesn't seem to have gone up to "scalper" levels but it has gone up. For the last 3-4 months I've paid an average of about $35 per pound for standard types of smokeless. Online auction sites like GB usually have listings for quite a few of the unobtainium components during shortages, but that is where scalpers lurk and prices can really spike!
I had to check to be sure.

Check out Ron Reiber, Hornady, at trapshooters.com, Longshot Powder Promblems, dtd Feb 12, 2014.

Longshot was designed for shotgunners for use in field loads. Longshot is a relatively consistant "fast" (for shotgunners) burning powder.

Accordingly the gun club's neighbors are complaining the gun club is too noisy and the gun club shooter's are complaining Longshot is to noisy.

Ron's response; when longshot is loaded beyond its recommended fps (referring to shotgun competition shooters vs shotgun hunting) "it is a noisy load". And he is telling those shooter's complaining, quit loading heavy field loads when your shooting competition, stick to the standard-medium loads and the noise will be equivalent to 800X loads and the neighbors won't be complaining.

Got a little confused old age does that from time to time, your previous thread referred to using 46-47 grains of either favor of 4895, that 4350 is too slow of a powder.

IMR 4350 is what I use as an alternative to IMR 4064 when reloading my other 30-06's, 375 and previously 458WM.

For the 458WM I switched over to H335.

I'll start testing Garand loads with H335 and as you recommended with IMR 4895.

Since reading the aforementioned article I'll save the Longshot for reloading waterfowl shotshells.
Actually I'm the one who suggested another "standard" 30-06 Garand load of 46-47 gr of either flavor of 4895 under a 150 gr bullet.... :) No matter, that load is pretty much a universal for the average Garand and should not over stress the op rod.
 

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I think everyone feels the crunch. I just keep my eyes open all the time everywhere and buy stuff I need as soon as I find it. I’m on every notification list from the common company’s and as soon as I get the “in stock” email I jump on and buy it if I can. I hit the mother load on shotgun stuff the other day. I found 275lbs of 7 1/2 and 8 lead shot, 5k Win AA wads, and 15lbs of red dot. I use red dot in pistol rounds also. I bought all of it for 220$ at an estate sale.
 

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Made it to the range today, had a few on off sprinkles, but not enough to stop shooting and checking test loads in my 44's and the Garand.

I had more error messages than velocity readings on my chronograph for the 44 test loads so no data. I'll try some for test loads hopefully this weekend.

For the Garand I am totally confused and at a lose. The Hornady rep gave me the info I posted previously. The velocities below are considerably higher than he advised.

Here are my chronograph results using factory military issue ball ammo.

1. 2798
2. 2792
3. 2796
4. 2767
5. 2850
6. 2800
7. 2812
8. 2874

As a result I'll be doing some testing with various powders and testing recipes suggested.
 

Ridge Runner

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Yes Bruno in Pho AZ is a well known supplier for certain items. They were my regular supplier for 22 rf match ammo when doing that game. They seemed to be pretty easy to deal with. I did check with them a couple of months ago when trying to run down a few extra pounds of Varget when this latest shortage hit in earnest but they were out like most everyone.

The average price for components from more reputable dealers doesn't seem to have gone up to "scalper" levels but it has gone up. For the last 3-4 months I've paid an average of about $35 per pound for standard types of smokeless. Online auction sites like GB usually have listings for quite a few of the unobtainium components during shortages, but that is where scalpers lurk and prices can really spike!

Actually I'm the one who suggested another "standard" 30-06 Garand load of 46-47 gr of either flavor of 4895 under a 150 gr bullet.... :) No matter, that load is pretty much a universal for the average Garand and should not over stress the op rod.

My apologies. I was trying to type and look back to insure I was giving credit where due. I'll try to do better.
 

Ridge Runner

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I think everyone feels the crunch. I just keep my eyes open all the time everywhere and buy stuff I need as soon as I find it. I’m on every notification list from the common company’s and as soon as I get the “in stock” email I jump on and buy it if I can. I hit the mother load on shotgun stuff the other day. I found 275lbs of 7 1/2 and 8 lead shot, 5k Win AA wads, and 15lbs of red dot. I use red dot in pistol rounds also. I bought all of it for 220$ at an estate sale.

Now that's one heck of a deal.
 

fourfive8

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No apologies necessary at all and no worries for sure! I've done the same when similar rapid fire and similar responses are being posted. Everyone seems to be on the same page here. Trying to sort out supplies during such times seems to be catching everyone short and shipping and supplier staffing is very sketchy. Seems like the market is "very confused"... for lack of better terminology.
 

Ray B

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I see the usual suspects are Out of Stock on most if not all of their primers. I wonder if the shortage is motivated by suppliers wanting an increase in price or if the fear of further restrictions has pushed demand.
 
 

 

 

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