Politics

[RLD]

I am sure you took either philosophy or rhetoric and so understand the fallacy of composition - or as it is sometimes called - "division" - the art of exploiting minor factual error in an attempt to make an entire argument untrue. One attempts to use a small flawed detail as representative of the whole. Though a fallacious form of argument it is often used in debate or in trials. However, for the life of me, I can't tell what point you are alleging other than trying to call @deewayne2003 a liar?

During the Night of the Long Knives Ernst Rohm was Chief of Staff (Stabschef) of the SA when he was executed. Hitler held the title (Oberster SA-Fuhrer) or Supreme SA Leader. I am not sure it is particularly relevant whether he "founded" the SA or was a leading figure in its founding - which he was. I would also suggest that the comparisons to ANTIFA have some merit. Obviously, the SA were more militarily organized but the roles are and were quite similar. Finally, you are correct, that all the SA were not killed. But the 50 or so SA members who were executed gutted the leadership and relegated it subservient to the German Army. The SS of course quickly assumed the mantel of the loyalist party military organization.

The comment "Hitler never promised a free beetle" is literally true but essentially false - another bit of composition - He absolutely did launch an effort to create an affordable "Peoples' Car" (Volkswagon) that working class families could afford. One could also correctly term it a socialist effort. The Reich sponsored Strength Through Joy organization created a stamp-savings program into which workers contributed weekly. Unfortunately for the German labor class, the war truncated that plan rather dramatically. Though VW's post war worldwide success with the design argues that had Hitler been less interested in lebensraum, it may have worked.

I wasn't at the bar in Austin and neither were you. Nothing you have offered disproves anything offered by @deewayne2003. I would suggest allowing participants to read the narrative and draw their own conclusions would be a more appropriate use of your time.

I don't know, where I am from suggesting that 2,000,000 people were killed when at worst it was 1,000 is not a minor factual error. That screw up alone shows either one is exaggerating to a ridiculous degree or was completely ignorant of the basic facts of the group one is talking about. Both serious issues. Why would one take that person seriously?

Rohm was not the founder of the SA. He wasn't even leader for ten years after it was founded. Once again that shows the speaker doesn't understand the basics of what he claims some expertise in. No one forced him to say Rohm was the founder, that was his choice, and he was dead wrong on that claim. When people keep getting the basics of an subject that they claim some expertise in dead wrong, it undercuts their authority. Dude clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. Reminds me of Cliff from Cheers.

I disagree that a government trying to use policy to make something affordable is socialist. Socialism, at its core, is about the government owning the means of production. Hitler trying to make cars affordable is not about owning the means of production. Trump has aggressively tried to make drugs more affordable. Does that mean we label him as a socialist? I don't.

I wasn't in the bar in Texas, but I know enough about human nature to doubt that this group of drinking feminists went from angry at the poster to "spellbound" at his lecture.

And the great thing about living in a free society is I can do what I please with my time, including pointing out ahistorical bullshit when it is published. Many people who read that crap might not know the basic background of the SA (and I don't blame them for that) and could end up thinking those inaccurate things are true. Historical truth matters. Standing by and watching people post inaccurate crap is part of the problem, not the solution.

Do you think it went down in that bar the way he described it?

 

[Brent in Az]

Plenty of information out that refutes the CIA's campaign of crapola.
Unlike Cashill's belief that it was the Navy that shot down Flight 800, I believe it was a terrorist action.

 

[Scott CWO]

It appears my point went totally over your head. I won't apologize for your rush to judgement and failure to understand a pretty simple, uncontroversial point, which is that not everyone in a country, including children, support the ruling party or philosophy.

Now if you understand the International Law of Armed Combat, you would know that the most specific laws governing the targeting of civilians were passed after WWII.

However, when one is fighting a total war, like WWII, what constitutes a legitimate military target expands significantly even under today's agreements.

There has been plenty of debate about both whether or not Dresden or say Hiroshima or Nagasaki were justified from a Law of War perspective, I come down on the side that they were (having actually studied the issue pretty closely), but that might take a more informed conversation than you are likely equipped for.

If you are really interested in my views on the Israeli military, I think they are a highly disciplined, well equipped, trained and effective force. I think they are exceptional on many levels. I think Netanyahu is too aggressive in his policy, but that is not the fault of the Israeli military. I don't visit the bad decisions of politicians on the military (or the population of civilians for that matter).

But no matter how frustrated you are with the Revolutionary Government of Iran, it does not justify tossing aside the Laws of War that America helped build to target civilian infrastructure and kill civilians. Targetting civilians to produce political change is literally the definition of terrorism.

Oh I got your point. We will disagree on some of the imprudent things agreed to after WWII that perhaps went too far. Seems we also carpet bombed Viet Nam, did we not? But atomic bombs dropped on Japan were okay. Picking and choosing now are you? Inconsistent much? Perhaps you see now how difficult these things become? Japanese children versus Gazan children? The PLO and PA squandered some good chances for peace agreements, did they not? Tough issues and questions, eh? People have different views about where to draw the line, except the evil people don’t give a damn. Putin and the IRGC?

 

[tinktink12]

 

[Scott CWO]

Should imagine been going on for a long time.....going to be a shitshow.....

The Iranians did the same thing to the USA by sending military aged males to the South American country of Guyana to have them head north and blend in with all the illegal immigrants headed north during the Obama and Biden Administrations. JSOC worked on this problem. But according to @RLD and other liberals on this site, we are supposed to fight the IRGC and the Palestinians with one hand and one foot tied behind our backs.

 

[Red Leg]

I don't know, where I am from suggesting that 2,000,000 people were killed when at worst it was 1,000 is not a minor factual error. That screw up alone shows either one is exaggerating to a ridiculous degree or was completely ignorant of the basic facts of the group one is talking about. Both serious issues. Why would one take that person seriously?

Rohm was not the founder of the SA. He wasn't even leader for ten years after it was founded. Once again that shows the speaker doesn't understand the basics of what he claims some expertise in. No one forced him to say Rohm was the founder, that was his choice, and he was dead wrong on that claim. When people keep getting the basics of an subject that they claim some expertise in dead wrong, it undercuts their authority. Dude clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. Reminds me of Cliff from Cheers.

I disagree that a government trying to use policy to make something affordable is socialist. Socialism, at its core, is about the government owning the means of production. Hitler trying to make cars affordable is not about owning the means of production. Trump has aggressively tried to make drugs more affordable. Does that mean we label him as a socialist? I don't.

I wasn't in the bar in Texas, but I know enough about human nature to doubt that this group of drinking feminists went from angry at the poster to "spellbound" at his lecture.

And the great thing about living in a free society is I can do what I please with my time, including pointing out ahistorical bullshit when it is published. Many people who read that crap might not know the basic background of the SA (and I don't blame them for that) and could end up thinking those inaccurate things are true. Historical truth matters. Standing by and watching people post inaccurate crap is part of the problem, not the solution.

Do you think it went down in that bar the way he described it?

I think you make my point exactly.

With respect to "belief," I can't imagine worrying being someone who would worry about that.

 

[Brent in Az]

One of the best videos Ive seen that exposes the FBI coverup and corruption.
No witnesses were ever allowed to testify.
You can just tell that Kallstrom is a weasel, and meat puppet for someone much higher up in the food chain.

 

[RLD]

Oh I got your point. We will disagree on some of the imprudent things agreed to after WWII that perhaps went too far. Seems we also carpet bombed Viet Nam, did we not? But atomic bombs dropped on Japan were okay. Picking and choosing now are you? Inconsistent much? Perhaps you see now how difficult these things become? Japanese children versus Gazan children? The PLO and PA squandered some good chances for peace agreements, did they not? Tough issues and questions, eh? People have different views about where to draw the line, except the evil people don’t give a damn. Putin and the IRGC?

I have never really looked at the American conduct in Vietnam, so I really don't know about that.

The PLO and PLA blew tons of chances for peace. I have said multiple times, and continue to say, the sine quo non for peace talks is the recognition that Israel has a right to exist as a jewish state. Until someone representing the Palestinian people can get to that place, there can be no permanent peace plan.

For the purposes of the law of war, Hiroshima and Dresden etc are pretty simple. The 4th Geneva convention and other relevant laws didn't exist yet. You can't break a law that has not yet been passed.

But as I said above there is a qualitative difference between a "total war" which engages the industrial capacity of two nations, and a regional war or other types of war. If there is a ball bearing plant manned by civilians making ball bearings to put into fighter planes unfortunately some civilians will be killed in the destruction of that plant, but it relates directly to the war making capacity of one of the parties to the conflict. That ball bearing plant, if it is not being used to support the war effort is probably not a legit target.

Hiroshima was a military headquarters, a shipping hub and had military units stationed there. In the context of a total war that is fair game. I would argue Dresden had similar military value if you want to chat about that.

But the Israeli strikes after Oct 7 are not part of a total war where two massive industrialized nations are hammering away at each other. They are not destroying an industrial base, or trying to impair troop movements or any other of the myriad of legitimate targeting decisions that one sees in a war.

You also have to take into account technology. The technology available to anyone in the 40's to avoid collateral damages was way less than what we have now.

The decisions political and military leaders make over what to target and how to target it are hard, but they need to always keep in mind the minimization of civilian casualties.

 

[RLD]

The Iranians did the same thing to the USA by sending military aged males to the South American country of Guyana to have them head north and blend in with all the illegal immigrants headed north during the Obama and Biden Administrations. JSOC worked on this problem. But according to @RLD and other liberals on this site, we are supposed to fight the IRGC and the Palestinians with one hand and one foot tied behind our backs.

No, I suggest America should fight in accordance with the rules of war they practically invented and have implemented rather than sinking to the level of the terrorists you claim to hate.

I have no doubt that Hamas and the IRGC are dangerous, immoral maggots of no value because of how they act. I would be happy if our great neighbours and the last super power left in the world chose not to act the same way.

I'm surprised the idea of the unnecessary killing of civilians means nothing to you.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

When I think of Israel and Hezbollah, or us and Iean right now, or Hiroshima, this line from Resolution comes to mind:

Virgil Cole: “Sometimes you got to kill one person early, to save from killing four or five later.”

 

[Scott CWO]

I have never really looked at the American conduct in Vietnam, so I really don't know about that.

The PLO and PLA blew tons of chances for peace. I have said multiple times, and continue to say, the sine quo non for peace talks is the recognition that Israel has a right to exist as a jewish state. Until someone representing the Palestinian people can get to that place, there can be no permanent peace plan.

For the purposes of the law of war, Hiroshima and Dresden etc are pretty simple. The 4th Geneva convention and other relevant laws didn't exist yet. You can't break a law that has not yet been passed.

But as I said above there is a qualitative difference between a "total war" which engages the industrial capacity of two nations, and a regional war or other types of war. If there is a ball bearing plant manned by civilians making ball bearings to put into fighter planes unfortunately some civilians will be killed in the destruction of that plant, but it relates directly to the war making capacity of one of the parties to the conflict. That ball bearing plant, if it is not being used to support the war effort is probably not a legit target.

Hiroshima was a military headquarters, a shipping hub and had military units stationed there. In the context of a total war that is fair game. I would argue Dresden had similar military value if you want to chat about that.

But the Israeli strikes after Oct 7 are not part of a total war where two massive industrialized nations are hammering away at each other. They are not destroying an industrial base, or trying to impair troop movements or any other of the myriad of legitimate targeting decisions that one sees in a war.

You also have to take into account technology. The technology available to anyone in the 40's to avoid collateral damages was way less than what we have now.

The decisions political and military leaders make over what to target and how to target it are hard, but they need to always keep in mind the minimization of civilian casualties.

Carpet bombing with B-52s brought North Viet Nam back to the negotiating table which led to the USA’s exit.

The majority of the Palestinians in Gaza are far from typical “civilians” as we use the term elsewhere. The lies put out by liberal NGOs are ridiculous and ignore history.

 

[Brent in Az]

I read that Fauci invoked the 5th 111 times during the hearing.
Rand Paul is going to determine if Fauci can be brought up on contempt, considering he received a sweeping pardon from Biden

 

[Scott CWO]

No, I suggest America should fight in accordance with the rules of war they practically invented and have implemented rather than sinking to the level of the terrorists you claim to hate.

I have no doubt that Hamas and the IRGC are dangerous, immoral maggots of no value because of how they act. I would be happy if our great neighbours and the last super power left in the world chose not to act the same way.

I'm surprised the idea of the unnecessary killing of civilians means nothing to you.

It does, actually, but there are civilians and then there are extremists.

 

[RLD]

Carpet bombing with B-52s brought North Viet Nam back to the negotiating table which led to the USA’s exit.

The majority of the Palestinians in Gaza are far from typical “civilians” as we use the term elsewhere. The lies put out by liberal NGOs are ridiculous and ignore history.

Just because they don't like you, or support the end of America, or support Hamas or any other despicable organization doesn't make them any less civilians.

 

[RLD]

I read that Fauci invoked the 5th 111 times during the hearing.
Rand Paul is going to determine if Fauci can be brought up on contempt, considering he received a sweeping pardon from Biden

I think he can be brought up on contempt, I don't think the pardon covers it.

Having said that, bringing up someone on contempt charges for relying on his 5th Amendment rights seems like a dicey idea.

 

[jpr9954]

 

[deewayne2003]

Tell us again about how Rohm founded the SA and that they were "all" killed in the Knight of the Long Knives.

History is a thing that exists outside of your political fantasies and deserves some respect. You obviously don't give a shit about what really happened.

The funny thing is, that my post doesn't contain any opinion at all (except my skepticism of your story) it was necessary to correct things you either lied about or didn't understand about the historical record. Do you think it is okay to publish lies about important historical events? Maybe you wouldn't be so butt hurt when someone corrects you if you chose not to publish bullshit in the first place.

When you start publishing stuff that is simply wrong, your "credibility" goes down the tubes.

As I said before........

 

[RLD]

It does, actually, but there are civilians and then there are extremists.

You can be both.

There are plenty of such people in America, and I bet you would be upset if the U.S. government decided to whack them.

 

[RLD]

As I said before........
View attachment 780500

It appears your knowledge of aquatic faeces far exceeds your knowledge of history. Or ability to count.

 

[Brent in Az]

Sounds like Iran is about to get the shit beat out of them, after their latest strike on a base in Jordan.