Politics

[Datchew]

Even Al Jazeera gets it (and they have historically been biased against Israel and the US on matters regarding the Middle East)…

The US-Israeli strategy against Iran is working. Here is why

Every aspect of Iran’s ability to project regional power is being successfully degraded.

www.aljazeera.com

*Snip*

Thx for passing that along.

The author used a turn of phrase that jumped out at me which I feel should get more sunlight and more miles - strategic ledger.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I could almost stretch to that argument if it only involved Europe. You might know better than I, is the American voter going to change their vote based on European participation in the Strait? I don't know about that. Is there a legit domestic audience for that?

But publicly asking China for help on anything does not project strength.

I dont think it changes their vote, but it reinforces a belief. For example, liberals might be more inclined to worry about what European leaders think of America policies, where as conservatives might point to how Europeans are free loading off of American taxpayers.

I look at this as the same when Trump invited Xi to his inauguration, he knew the answer but wanted to be able to say Publicly, "see I tried to include them, I tried to be a good partner, but they arent good partners, some might say the worse, worse than the French, not to be confused with French Fries, French Fries are great".

In all seriousness, and to your point, Trump asking China for help in the straight will not change one vote in America.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

BCE is just another attempt to control the narrative by the woke left, and push the world towards secularism. I will continue to use BC & AD.

I can only agree with RLD here.. Europe and Canada came to the same conclusion..

" The idea of getting on Trump's good side is an illusion. He is mercurial and short tempered. Nobody trusts him to stand by his word and stick with a long term deal. No business or country is willing to tie their prosperity to a guy who sets policy based on his blood sugar surges. Why make a deal with a guy you don't think will abide by it?

Secondarily, he acts like a bully. And nobody wants to give an olive branch to a bully. It just invites more aggression. "

And the fact that Trump has followed up on everything he promised that he would do obviously means nothing. Is he mercurial? Maybe. Sets policy according to his blood sugar? No, he's taking care of the American people, which is his job. Is he a bully? You mean towards countries or individuals that threaten the US? No a bully uses empty threats to get what he wants. Trump uses force when necessary to achieve his goals. Do you ever think about what you are saying before you write? Obviously not. Just like American liberals, "if Trump does it, I'm against it, no matter what it is.

 

[Pondoro]

" The repercussions of providing little assistance to keep the Strait of Hormuz functioning are going to be wide and deep for Europe and America. " Lindsey Graham

So..whats next..? Pulling USA out of NATO..?

 

[mdwest]

And you are right Trump only has 2.5 years left. But there is no guarantee that the next President will be less of an asshole.

I’d bet the entire balance of my primary retirement accounts that the next president will be less of an asshole…

We’d have to bring in stem cells and genetically engineer our next president if we want a bigger asshole behind the resolute desk… out of 340m people we picked the largest asshole we could find this last time around lol…

The next president could certainly be an asshole… but I think it’s statistically impossible that he’ll be bigger

My fear isn’t that the next one will be an asshole… it’s that the next one will be either an idiot or a wet noodle… neither of which would be good for the US, or any of the western world..

 

[mdwest]

" The repercussions of providing little assistance to keep the Strait of Hormuz functioning are going to be wide and deep for Europe and America. " Lindsey Graham

So..whats next..? Pulling USA out of NATO..?

So what if it does? You don’t seem to think the US is a worthy partner.. and you think that the worlds problems related to Iran is the US’s responsibility to fix…

I’d think you’d be overjoyed if we pulled out..

You don’t get to have it both ways..

 

[Altitude sickness]

It may be a good time to remind Europeans how Iran got to this point. And how British MI 6 initiated it. With assistance from the U.S. but it was primarily a British operation for BP to control Iranian oil.

Iran 1953: MI6 plots with Islamists to overthrow democracy

Declassified British files highlight a little known aspect of the joint MI6/CIA coup against Iran’s democratically elected government in August 1953 – UK covert action in support of leading radical Shia Islamists, the predecessors of Ayatollah Khomeini.

www.declassifieduk.org

 

[Doug Hamilton]

" The repercussions of providing little assistance to keep the Strait of Hormuz functioning are going to be wide and deep for Europe and America. " Lindsey Graham

So..whats next..? Pulling USA out of NATO..?

How how about expecting other NATO countries to step up? Seems reasonable.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

It may be a good time to remind Europeans how Iran got to this point. And how British MI 6 initiated it. With assistance from the U.S. but it was primarily a British operation for BP to control Iranian oil.

Iran 1953: MI6 plots with Islamists to overthrow democracy

Declassified British files highlight a little known aspect of the joint MI6/CIA coup against Iran’s democratically elected government in August 1953 – UK covert action in support of leading radical Shia Islamists, the predecessors of Ayatollah Khomeini.

www.declassifieduk.org

But if we do that, they won't be able to blame Trump! Oh, the horror!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

It has been a few years sense I studied maritime law for my seamanship corses but wouldn’t and attack on a tanker by Iran be construed as an act of war against whatever country the vessel was flagged under?

 

[Altitude sickness]

375 Ruger, here is another CliffsNotes documentary on 20th century Iran history long side Arab nations in the Middle East

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

" The repercussions of providing little assistance to keep the Strait of Hormuz functioning are going to be wide and deep for Europe and America. " Lindsey Graham

So..whats next..? Pulling USA out of NATO..?

That’d probably make Joe Kent pretty happy.

 

[Wheels]

" The repercussions of providing little assistance to keep the Strait of Hormuz functioning are going to be wide and deep for Europe and America. " Lindsey Graham

So..whats next..? Pulling USA out of NATO..?

Graham is NATO’s best friend in the Senate and Europe’s response seems to have pissed him off as well as Trump. I would guess we are closer now than ever since NATO was formed.

 

[Wheels]

Graham is NATO’s best friend in the Senate and Europe’s response seems to have pissed him off as well as Trump. I would guess we are closer now than ever since NATO was formed.

PS:

France, Germany, UK, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands all symbolically sent troops to Greenland over Trump rhetoric that was never going to happen. Those same countries won’t even go to the gulf to escort their own flagged carriers through the straits.

Is it over ideology or does Europe not even have the capacity to protect their owns ships. Either way it doesn’t seem to bode well for the current NATO relationships.

 

[Brent in Az]

PS:

France, Germany, UK, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands all symbolically sent troops to Greenland over Trump rhetoric that was never going to happen. Those same countries won’t even go to the gulf to escort their own flagged carriers through the straits.

Is it over ideology or does Europe not even have the capacity to protect their owns ships. Either way it doesn’t seem to bode well for the current NATO relationships.

As far as I'm concerned, those countries can wallow in their TDS. Japan and Australia won't send ships either.
Let them wail.
They will forfeit any favors from Trump for the next 3 years

 

[Tbitty]

I'm going about 90% of the way with you on this whole post. Very well reasoned indeed.

But there is a but, and it's a big but (as opposed to a big butt).

The but is that we used to be able to do those long term plans within certain parameters, understanding that our counterparts in the United States would act within certain bounds. There was plenty of variability at play, but Trump tossed all of those bounds out the window. Fair enough, he's entitled to (until SCOTUS tells him otherwise because congress currently in lap dog mode).

And you are right Trump only has 2.5 years left. But there is no guarantee that the next President will be less of an asshole. Trump has proven that his formula works in American electoral politics and others might actually believe in Trumpism or they just might want to emulate it to get elected.

Unfortunately the world's future planning now has to include the possibility that the next one might just be another Trump. We might be pleasantly surprised, we might get another Reagan or even a Bush, but if we plan on another co-operative partner and we get another Trump then we will have made a critical error. Our forward planning has to include the very real risk that these trends might run much longer than the current administration. Doesn't it? Canada's and other countries turning away from the United States, if they can, is not just to deal with Trump, it provides insurance against a future Trump.

I would take another Trump over a Clinton, Obama, Biden, Harris, Newsome, or any of those other tick turds that the D's have run out there lately. As has been noted, he is definitely an asshole, may not be a "good" guy, but it cannot be doubted that he is laser focused on doing what he thinks is best for the USA and its citizens.

 

[farmer_john]

PS:

France, Germany, UK, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands all symbolically sent troops to Greenland over Trump rhetoric that was never going to happen. Those same countries won’t even go to the gulf to escort their own flagged carriers through the straits.

Is it over ideology or does Europe not even have the capacity to protect their owns ships. Either way it doesn’t seem to bode well for the current NATO relationships.

Id just be like thats cool your boats your probs

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Isn’t it an environmental disaster when a tanker sinks? Perhaps a 15 year old Swedish girl can throw a tantrum over the environmental impact and get more results protecting ships.

 

[Wheels]

Isn’t it an environmental disaster when a tanker sinks? Perhaps a 15 year old Swedish girl can throw a tantrum over the environmental impact and get more results protecting ships.View attachment 753374

Greta was literally complaining earlier this week that America was cutting off oil from Cuba. I would have thought she would have been happy.