Politics

[Ontario Hunter]

View attachment 741277
This meme is my opinion on people saying you shouldn’t protest ICE. Whether you agree with ICE’s massive presence right now or not, protesting is a constitutional right. Throwing snowballs is what caused the Boston Massacre, one of the major lead ups to the Revolution.

Let’s read the Declaration of Independence to remind ourselves why we went to war with the government to form anew.

“He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.” - Trump recently banned states from passing any laws against artificial intelligence, yet isn’t passing any laws of his own to control it.

“He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.” - Trump has had ICE camp outside of immigration courts and arrest people as they walk inside to prevent them from becoming legal.

“He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.” - trump has appointed dozens of unqualified people into judicial positions and other positions of power simply for the fact that they are loyal to him. Pam Bondi being a prime example.

“He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.” - Trump has made a handful of new offices, “department of government efficiency” being the biggest waste of taxpayer money in history. It saved almost nothing (provable) and cost taxpayers significantly.

“
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:”

Trump has been protecting ice agents from any form of accountability for their countless crimes. Such as kidnapping children away from their parents for hours at a time, breaking into homes without judicial warrant, his tariffs are taxes without representation, and he has been deporting people without any opportunity for trial. The constitution doesn’t protect citizens, it protects “People” meaning even illegal immigrants and criminals are given due process of the law to have a chance to defend themselves, and must be considered innocent until proven guilty.

Trump is trying to send the military to back ICE, which is a violation of our 4th amendment rights AND one of the reasons for the Declaration of Independence.

If the founding fathers were alive today they would be revolting just like they revolted then.

As for ICE needlessly killing people and people justifying then as “they’re on edge” well the fact is that it doesn’t matter if you’re on edge. You’re supposed to be trained to handle stress, fear, etc. They are committing actual war crimes such as gassing neighborhoods with lethal toxic gas (causes total organ failure within hours of exposure, a Geneva convention war crime) among using sonic weapons on non combatants.

As for Greenland, it’s one of the last primary places of native peoples in the world. Over 80% are indigenous there. You really want to commit another massacre of indigenous peoples to get some extra land? Hitler wanted more natural resources and invaded Poland. Resources is not a valid excuse.

As for Venezuela, let’s say another country kills all of Trump’s security, and kidnaps him to bring him to their own country. Would the United States not consider that an act of war???

“Justification” is not sufficient as morally acceptable reasoning.

That sums it up well enough.

 

[1dirthawker]

Non compliance isnt a shootable offence.

i will disagree, there are some retired and maybe active LEO' here that can answer better than i, but, if you have a gun on you and are fighting police, how much leeway do you get? again, a stupid idea to fight with cops, but fighting with cops with a gun on you, or reaching for it, just stupid.

that said, i think we should wait a bit until we find out what actually happened instead of going off 1/2 cocked without the facts. seems a pretty common occurrence now a days, lets give it a minute and find out some truth.

 

[farmer_john]

View attachment 741277
This meme is my opinion on people saying you shouldn’t protest ICE. Whether you agree with ICE’s massive presence right now or not, protesting is a constitutional right. Throwing snowballs is what caused the Boston Massacre, one of the major lead ups to the Revolution.

Let’s read the Declaration of Independence to remind ourselves why we went to war with the government to form anew.

“He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.” - Trump recently banned states from passing any laws against artificial intelligence, yet isn’t passing any laws of his own to control it.

“He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.” - Trump has had ICE camp outside of immigration courts and arrest people as they walk inside to prevent them from becoming legal.

“He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.” - trump has appointed dozens of unqualified people into judicial positions and other positions of power simply for the fact that they are loyal to him. Pam Bondi being a prime example.

“He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.” - Trump has made a handful of new offices, “department of government efficiency” being the biggest waste of taxpayer money in history. It saved almost nothing (provable) and cost taxpayers significantly.

“
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:”

Trump has been protecting ice agents from any form of accountability for their countless crimes. Such as kidnapping children away from their parents for hours at a time, breaking into homes without judicial warrant, his tariffs are taxes without representation, and he has been deporting people without any opportunity for trial. The constitution doesn’t protect citizens, it protects “People” meaning even illegal immigrants and criminals are given due process of the law to have a chance to defend themselves, and must be considered innocent until proven guilty.

Trump is trying to send the military to back ICE, which is a violation of our 4th amendment rights AND one of the reasons for the Declaration of Independence.

If the founding fathers were alive today they would be revolting just like they revolted then.

As for ICE needlessly killing people and people justifying then as “they’re on edge” well the fact is that it doesn’t matter if you’re on edge. You’re supposed to be trained to handle stress, fear, etc. They are committing actual war crimes such as gassing neighborhoods with lethal toxic gas (causes total organ failure within hours of exposure, a Geneva convention war crime) among using sonic weapons on non combatants.

As for Greenland, it’s one of the last primary places of native peoples in the world. Over 80% are indigenous there. You really want to commit another massacre of indigenous peoples to get some extra land? Hitler wanted more natural resources and invaded Poland. Resources is not a valid excuse.

As for Venezuela, let’s say another country kills all of Trump’s security, and kidnaps him to bring him to their own country. Would the United States not consider that an act of war???

“Justification” is not sufficient as morally acceptable reasoning.

So i dont agree with many of the points present.
But i do agree that protesting is a right and you should not respond with lethal force unless presented with lethal force. And government is accountable to the people.

 

[farmer_john]

i will disagree, there are some retired and maybe active LEO' here that can answer better than i, but, if you have a gun on you and are fighting police, how much leeway do you get? again, a stupid idea to fight with cops, but fighting with cops with a gun on you, or reaching for it, just stupid.

that said, i think we should wait a bit until we find out what actually happened instead of going off 1/2 cocked without the facts. seems a pretty common occurrence now a days, lets give it a minute and find out some truth.

I agree with your statement 100%

And thats the point ive already stated. Based on available evidence it paints one picture. But we need more evidence.

And I also agree even if your legally justified fighting the cops your still going to lose in the short run. But we dont know the details of the lead up to that video. Or what happened in.
But by their own statement subject had a weapon on him isnt same as using a weapon.

Its very possible eich everyone seems to skip over

That idiot A and cop B can both be in wrong in the situation. 2 bad decisions can lead to a bad outcome. Its one a one side or the other.

 

[1dirthawker]

So its an irrelevant question.

so if you and i wrestle, but i have a gun, lethal force is less than 1 second away. maybe fighting with police officers is a bad idea, especially when you are in the process of unlawful behavior. FAFO is an unfortunate truth.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Preemptively? The wrestling was already occurring. It’s a simple question: Would you refuse orders and wrestle with cops?

Happens to real cops all the time. Can't shoot someone for that ... unless you're a cop working for the Ayattola or Comrade Vladimir.

 

[farmer_john]

so if you and i wrestle, but i have a gun, lethal force is less than 1 second away. maybe fighting with police officers is a bad idea, especially when you are in the process of unlawful behavior. FAFO is an unfortunate truth.

Then dont be a cop.
In america folks legally can carry. You cant initiate a agressive encounter then blast someone because they were legally armed.

Cops are not always in the right and often use the badge to bully people.

And yes. To use lethal force. You need to have someone activly using it against you not the well maybe it will happen.

 

[1dirthawker]

Being spit on, etc is part of the job. Period. Always has been. Can't take it, drop your resume off at Walmart.

being spit on is being assaulted. the spitter should be arrested and charged. allowing the violence to continue is wrong and should be met with force. spitting is not peacefully protesting. operating a bullhorn or a air horn in someones face is not peaceful protest either. i am always amazed at how patient law enforcement is with these jack wagon protesters who are protesting removing violent criminals from their community. i am also amazed at your apparent willingness to allow this behavior.

 

[farmer_john]

being spit on is being assaulted. the spitter should be arrested and charged. allowing the violence to continue is wrong and should be met with force. spitting is not peacefully protesting. operating a bullhorn or a air horn in someones face is not peaceful protest either. i am always amazed at how patient law enforcement is with these jack wagon protesters who are protesting removing violent criminals from their community. i am also amazed at your apparent willingness to allow this behavior.

I also agree. But once again its not grounds for lethal force. Force yes. Lethal no.

 

[DieJager]

What I've seen from videos from multiple angles is that during the struggle he is reaching for his waist and trying to get hold of his gun. I think deadly force is then justified accordingly to the laws in the US.

 

[Wheels]

Perspective of a former AUSA from video of events leading up to todays shooting in Minneapolis.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2015144184894894497

 

[Ontario Hunter]

being spit on is being assaulted. the spitter should be arrested and charged. allowing the violence to continue is wrong and should be met with force. spitting is not peacefully protesting. operating a bullhorn or a air horn in someones face is not peaceful protest either. i am always amazed at how patient law enforcement is with these jack wagon protesters who are protesting removing violent criminals from their community. i am also amazed at your apparent willingness to allow this behavior.

I'm not the twit who pardoned all those January 6th "protesters" who trashed the nation's capitol. That would be your pal Trump. He's quick to invoke the double standard when it serves his vainglorious agenda.

People who spit on policemen can be arrested (if the cops decide charging them is worth the hassle). But they can't be legally shot for it. Not in any civilized jurisdiction anyway.

What's really stupid is the ICE goons in Minneapolis already knew they were under the microscope. Then they do this? Morons.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Looks like they were trying to knock the Sig pistol from his hand. He obviously got the gun into play and became a legal target. He wasn’t simply a guy walking his dog and they jumped him because he was carrying.

 

[pilar]

Is anyone else in DFW as fed up with all the ICE presence as I am? Can you believe ICE came in the middle of the night, and is occupying our streets! No one wants ICE here!

I've heard ICE is wide-spread across several states. Y'all stay safe out there.

I welcome I.C.E & BP anytime , anywhere, when Biden and Kamala where running things we had 90,000 people a week showing up and , overwhelmed every social service, bus companies, hospitals, ect.
You probably live in a more effluent environment where, the illegal peoples aren’t bothering yall , except when they don’t show up to cut your lawn, clean the house, ect
Everyone wants to throw ice & BP under the bus, but they where the ones saving lives
When human smugglers where locking 50-70 people in a tractor trailer and leave them in it in the summer heat! To die !
I think we should double up on what we already have for ice & BP , just my .2ct worth

 

[John Wasmuth]

And so it is,

 

[Rifleman97]

So i dont agree with many of the points present.
But i do agree that protesting is a right and you should not respond with lethal force unless presented with lethal force. And government is accountable to the people.

I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but the people have a right to protest. If ICE is in the streets, which are PUBLIC property, the people have a right to be right there with them and protesting.

And if ICE kills someone without being 100% beyond any reasonable doubt of self defense, they need to be held in court as if they were a citizen who had just killed someone. Hell, even people who defend their own homes from burglars have to go to court and get tried for murder. They usually get off because they did the right thing and defended life/property. But ICE doesn’t have any accountability and that is sickening. There isn’t enough due process going around. I don’t even necessarily think all of these ice agents are guilty, but I do think they need to go to court and have a trial to have due process regardless. Even when regular police shoot a civilian (even when the civilian pulls a gun on them) they still have accountability to ensure that it was a legal use of deadly force. Even when the case is open and shut they have to have a trial (even if it’s not public)

The Greenland thing pisses me off the most as someone of Native American decent. You want to take over a country that has 80+% indigenous people, take away their free healthcare, their lack of any property taxes, their way of life, all so we can desecrate their land with mines, oil pipelines, shitty resorts, etc.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

On two occasions I had to make a decision re perp with a weapon. Granted they had knives not guns. I could legally have shot both perps dead on the spot. Sure, I want to stay alive, but I also have a conscience. Both of those clowns were under the influence and turns out probably looking for suicide by cop. Also, I figured someone somewhere must care about these guys; mother, child, sister, someone. Do I need to kill them and kill a part of their loved ones? Maybe not. Sure, my 1911 came out of the holster and a round jacked in the chamber. "Listen ASSHOLE, unless you want to spend the rest of your life walking around like Long John Silver, you better drop that, NOW!" Second guy says, "Who's Long John Silver?" Roll my eyes: "I'll blow your f*cking leg off, shithead!" Both got the message. They had received Dear John letters and then ingested too much Boones Farm. Booze is a depressant. It only makes bad news badder. If memory serves, the paperwork disappeared for both those guys. Better than putting them in a box. Yeah, I could shoot someone ... if I ABSOLUTELY had to. That smiling cheerful mom in Minneapolis probably could have drove over me and I still wouldn't have fired my gun. For crying out loud, she just told them she dropped her child off at school! Who wants to leave a child without a mom? Over what? Getting bumped by a fender? Asshole! Oh yeah, he was dragged down the road a few days before. And whose fault was that? He broke a rear window, reached in, and hung onto the car as it drove off. Anyone with half a brain would have let go! Not this supercop.

 

[Tbitty]

I welcome I.C.E & BP anytime , anywhere, when Biden and Kamala where running things we had 90,000 people a week showing up and , overwhelmed every social service, bus companies, hospitals, ect.
You probably live in a more effluent environment where, the illegal peoples aren’t bothering yall , except when they don’t show up to cut your lawn, clean the house, ect
Everyone wants to throw ice & BP under the bus, but they where the ones saving lives
When human smugglers where locking 50-70 people in a tractor trailer and leave them in it in the summer heat! To die !
I think we should double up on what we already have for ice & BP , just my .2ct worth

Damn, it looks like my phone was taken over by libtard auto-correct, or the MSM is censoring my post and changing the language...

All I wrote was "I wish this winter weather would go away."

 

[Brent in Az]

Being spit on, etc is part of the job. Period. Always has been. Can't take it, drop your resume off at Walmart. Back in my day no one had video cameras in their pockets so we had a little more freedom to be heavy handed. These days it's different. Just adapt. Wait till the perp is in the car or at the station before he "slips and falls on the wet pavement." I always made sure my patrolpersons were well versed in creative report writing.

Do the world a favor. Go to a protest and assault an ICE agent.
I look forward to the YouTube video.

 

[skydiver386]

I'm not the twit who pardoned all those January 6th "protesters" who trashed the nation's capitol. That would be your pal Trump. He's quick to invoke the double standard when it serves his vainglorious agenda.

The only one presenting a double standard is you. Those that committed acts of violence against law enforcement should be prosecuted, but hundreds of lawful protesters outside should not have been. Learn to divide the wheat from the chaff. Matter of fact, discernment is one thing men your age normally posess, but you seem to lack.

In your book, leftist protestors get a pass, but those on the other side get the hammer. Your double standard couldn't possibly be clearer.

People who spit on policemen can be arrested (if the cops decide charging them is worth the hassle). But they can't be legally shot for it. Not in any civilized jurisdiction anyway.

I've yet to see any news reports of people being shot for spitting on LEO's. But of course when does truth ever matter to you?

What's really stupid is the ICE goons in Minneapolis already knew they were under the microscope. Then they do this? Morons.

Tactical decisions are made according to the law, and Department policy, not current leftist media opinions. A typical E-4 knows this, but somehow you don't.

I'm still curious if you ever got your money refunded for that PHD from the Somali Daycare Center?