Politics

[skydiver386]

 

[Aaron N]

On the fringe of fundamentalism they believe that scientists are in league with Satan, trying to destroy evidence to support the Bible.

Unfortunately, this is becoming far too common of an opinion

 

[rookhawk]

However, like the whole UFO debate, I feel the actual physical evidence is very thin to non-existent. Deductive reasoning is a useful attribute but can only lead one in the pursuit of potential evidence - not the exclusion of it.

I will cede that the evidence isn't overwhelming, but there is some. Gobleki Tepi in Turkey has shed light that advanced monolithic sites and the means to produce them have existed for 11,000-13,000 years. Why aren't there more? Things get destroyed. What is amazing about Gobleki Tepi is man filled it in to erase it for some reason and the end result was they created a time capsule.

The biggest argument from logic I would give is simply that "practice makes perfect". There is no architecture or art that doesn't get better with practice. We can use the cathedrals of Europe as a simple example where they were further refined by trial and error. But the pyramids of Egypt are the opposite? Conventional archeology says that the Pyramid of Saqqara was the first, followed by the three pyramids of Giza in only 50 years, then all the pyramids thereafter were absolute trash. That's not how human's workmanship develops.

So, my first question is where are they? We supposedly have products of their technology but somehow the implements that created those products have never been discovered.

The evidence is in the items themselves. The best examples would be the pre-dynastic stone vases that are within .001"-.003" concentric and they contain the golden ratios, made from a very hard stone such as granite or diorite. It would require a 20th century lathe to make them, and even then you cannot make the handles on a lathe. They are so thin they are translucent. Isotope analysis has found rare metals lodged in their surfaces indicating they were not using the known copper and stone tools available to the dynastic Egyptians. Another example is the Baalbek stones in Lebanon. The foundation stones there are the largest stones ever carved or moved by man, far larger than anything in the pyramids. Sure, the Romans built the rest of the site on top of those stones, but they lacked the technology to move the cornerstones. Another example is the cores and core holes from Egypt that have engravings from the revolutions of the coring drill. We cannot produce those cores with copper and sand, it requires thousands of hours of labor to do using the tools known to the Egyptians, yet the core rotational cuts indicate it was cutting with very few revolutions. A diamond coring drill today cannot do that work in so few revolutions.

A comet impact could indeed destroy a civilization, but it would not vaporize it worldwide. Where are their cities, where are their graves, and where are those pesky tools? After all, we have more physical evidence of Neanderthals than we do this mysterious lost civilization.

Man is a largely coastal creature. Today most of us are vitamin deficient because we do not eat coastal foods since we have defied our evolution to live inland. (e.g. sardines and anchovies contain essential nutrition in which most modern humans are deficient) If ancient civilizations are like historical civilizations, they are coastal. Those coast would be deep underwater if they were built 11,600 years ago or earlier in large part.

Others have suggested these cities are buried in deserts like the Sahara or perhaps under jungle canopies. The problem with that theory is these places have been extensively mapped by satellite with no finds older than the Younger Dryer that are not hunter gatherer encampments.

The Americas have tons of new pyramids discovered using LIDAR that have yet to be explored. One of the most famous known ones in Mexico has been built upon by many, many cultures atop the older ones. Because we cannot date stone, we cannot determine how much older the foundations are that have clearly been expanded by later cultures. Many of the sites in Peru have later-cultural stones placed atop sites that clearly had different building methods.

The oceans of the world are also full of shipwrecks. One would assume that this advanced people sailed something somewhere. To date no wreck has been excavated containing artifacts of that age.

Correct, but we do have evidence they had ships in the pre-historical world. There are elaborate caves in Malta (Latnija Cave) that mainstream archaeology dates to 8500 years old. (that's way before Egyptian civilization) We don't have their shipwrecks whatsoever, but they certainly had ships to get to Malta.

Such a civilization would require extensive agriculture and the domestication of animals. I am no geneticist, but the people who study this sort of thing trace domestication of crops to Turkey around 9,000 BC and animals to Iraq around 8500 years ago. That tends to fit the generally accepted development timeline.

This is a very good point, probably the best point that mainstream science has against all of these topics. The science of grain domestication is very strong and we can predict how a wild cereal or rice is domesticated, how long it takes in generations, etc. So if there was an ancient civilization that was wiped out, they didn't use the conventional grains. My response would be that if the Younger Dryas was a dramatic climate change event and catastrophe (mainstream science says it was), then the foods used during the Dryas wouldn't be useful to the post-Dryas civilizations due to extreme habitat changes. They would have had to change over to other foods with massive climate change.

But yes, just like UFOs zipping around New Jersey, they may well exist. But until hard physical evidence is discovered, I think I'll stick with the current collectively accepted human development timeline.

Need I remind you that UAPs were seen all over New Jersey? The classified flight plans were finally released only about 3-4 months ago. They were sophisticated drones and they were authorized, yet our incompetent government let the public go on and on about these sightings without saying "yeah, we know, they are authorized"?

 

[Newboomer]

I will cede that the evidence isn't overwhelming, but there is some. Gobleki Tepi in Turkey has shed light that advanced monolithic sites and the means to produce them have existed for 11,000-13,000 years. Why aren't there more? Things get destroyed. What is amazing about Gobleki Tepi is man filled it in to erase it for some reason and the end result was they created a time capsule.

The biggest argument from logic I would give is simply that "practice makes perfect". There is no architecture or art that doesn't get better with practice. We can use the cathedrals of Europe as a simple example where they were further refined by trial and error. But the pyramids of Egypt are the opposite? Conventional archeology says that the Pyramid of Saqqara was the first, followed by the three pyramids of Giza in only 50 years, then all the pyramids thereafter were absolute trash. That's not how human's workmanship develops.



The evidence is in the items themselves. The best examples would be the pre-dynastic stone vases that are within .001"-.003" concentric and they contain the golden ratios, made from a very hard stone such as granite or diorite. It would require a 20th century lathe to make them, and even then you cannot make the handles on a lathe. They are so thin they are translucent. Isotope analysis has found rare metals lodged in their surfaces indicating they were not using the known copper and stone tools available to the dynastic Egyptians. Another example is the Baalbek stones in Lebanon. The foundation stones there are the largest stones ever carved or moved by man, far larger than anything in the pyramids. Sure, the Romans built the rest of the site on top of those stones, but they lacked the technology to move the cornerstones. Another example is the cores and core holes from Egypt that have engravings from the revolutions of the coring drill. We cannot produce those cores with copper and sand, it requires thousands of hours of labor to do using the tools known to the Egyptians, yet the core rotational cuts indicate it was cutting with very few revolutions. A diamond coring drill today cannot do that work in so few revolutions.





Man is a largely coastal creature. Today most of us are vitamin deficient because we do not eat coastal foods since we have defied our evolution to live inland. (e.g. sardines and anchovies contain essential nutrition in which most modern humans are deficient) If ancient civilizations are like historical civilizations, they are coastal. Those coast would be deep underwater if they were built 11,600 years ago or earlier in large part.



The Americas have tons of new pyramids discovered using LIDAR that have yet to be explored. One of the most famous known ones in Mexico has been built upon by many, many cultures atop the older ones. Because we cannot date stone, we cannot determine how much older the foundations are that have clearly been expanded by later cultures. Many of the sites in Peru have later-cultural stones placed atop sites that clearly had different building methods.



Correct, but we do have evidence they had ships in the pre-historical world. There are elaborate caves in Malta (Latnija Cave) that mainstream archaeology dates to 8500 years old. (that's way before Egyptian civilization) We don't have their shipwrecks whatsoever, but they certainly had ships to get to Malta.




This is a very good point, probably the best point that mainstream science has against all of these topics. The science of grain domestication is very strong and we can predict how a wild cereal or rice is domesticated, how long it takes in generations, etc. So if there was an ancient civilization that was wiped out, they didn't use the conventional grains. My response would be that if the Younger Dryas was a dramatic climate change event and catastrophe (mainstream science says it was), then the foods used during the Dryas wouldn't be useful to the post-Dryas civilizations due to extreme habitat changes. They would have had to change over to other foods with massive climate change.



Need I remind you that UAPs were seen all over New Jersey? The classified flight plans were finally released only about 3-4 months ago. They were sophisticated drones and they were authorized, yet our incompetent government let the public go on and on about these sightings without saying "yeah, we know, they are authorized"?

Very interesting discussion without criticism or negativity. I like it. Refreshing after some of the derogatory babble on this thread.

 

[VertigoBE]

Very interesting discussion without criticism or negativity. I like it. Refreshing after some of the derogatory babble on this thread.

And also a very fascinating topic as well. One that attracts my attention quite often too.

 

[Houston Bill]

Golden ballroom - you’re buying into Democrat talking points. The WH is actually not set up great for hosting meetings and dinners. Haven’t you seen the ceremonies hosted in the wide but shallow room that is currently used? It’s too small. The ballroom will be a great addition and not paid for by taxpayers! Why do you care? You’re just making a jab at Trump for no good reason.

The Palestinian people VOTED for a terrorist organization that got involved in politics. They are all culpable for this choice. Do you not remember that Clinton had a deal worked out and then Hamas started bombing buses? Arafat backed out so this is what you get when you refuse a reasonable deal.

I agree on Russia. Give Ukraine more weapons and help.

Poor people losing healthcare? Requiring work for benefits is a good thing and our healthcare system is for citizens, not illegal immigrants!

Sorry but $20B to Argentina is a rounding error and pales in comparison to the stupid aid given to other countries for woke BS!

Farmers going broke? I deal with dozens of farmers and ranchers every day. I don’t know any that are broke. Nice talking point, though.

Colleges are a cesspool of liberal indoctrination. Stop that and see what happens. Our colleges have lost the ability to be a bastion for debate. Tow the liberal line or get ostracized. No thanks!

Very well stated. I have blocked the drivel from @Frostbite

 

[Frostbite]

Farmers going broke? I deal with dozens of farmers and ranchers every day. I don’t know any that are broke. Nice talking point, though.

I said "going broke" and you changed it to "broke."

Nice twisting of my words, though.

 

[MS 9x56]

Can you explain why one would condemn the Palestinian people for saying they want their stolen land back?

For over 100 years the Zionist Jews have been plotting to steal Palestine to create a new Jewish homeland and committing the war crime of ethnic cleansing to accomplish it.

They have stolen about 95% of Palestine and displaced about five million refugees who have been forced out of their homes.

And somehow you want to blame the Palestinians?

You defy all logic.

Amazon.com : ilan pappe the ethnic cleansing of palestine

Shut up with your drivel

 

[Frostbite]

The Palestinian people VOTED for a terrorist organization that got involved in politics. They are all culpable for this choice. Do you not remember that Clinton had a deal worked out and then Hamas started bombing buses? Arafat backed out so this is what you get when you refuse a reasonable deal.

Now you're throwing out some Zionist revisionist history.

Truth is the Zionists have sabotaged every potential agreement of the last 50 or so years simply by refusing to allow Palestinian refugees to return home when the Palestinian State was formalized.

Zionists always try to blame the Palestinians for spoiling peace efforts. They always contrive some ridiculous excuse for continuing their mass murder.

Today it's that the Palestinians are not finding the bodies of hostages buried by Zionist bombs fast enough.

So the tiresome old evil of ethnic cleansing continues.

 

[Frostbite]

Old "45" flames the haters and name-callers.

Wise advice as usual.

 

[wesheltonj]

Now you're throwing out some Zionist revisionist history.

Truth is the Zionists have sabotaged every potential agreement of the last 50 or so years simply by refusing to allow Palestinian refugees to return home when the Palestinian State was formalized.

Zionists always try to blame the Palestinians for spoiling peace efforts. They always contrive some ridiculous excuse for continuing their mass murder.

Today it's that the Palestinians are not finding the bodies of hostages buried by Zionist bombs fast enough.

So the tiresome old evil of ethnic cleansing continues.

Total BS. The "Palestinians" refused a deal that would have given them their own state and The "Palestinians" refused. That's a fact, despite whatever GIGO your feeding into AI to give to an answer to support your position.

Soon you will have everyone blocking you. I give it a week.

 

[Frostbite]

Trump today continued harassing (without legal authority) people who disagree with him.

A bunch who would have been advising him on his Golden Ballroom are gone without cause or reason.

Next he got rid of a couple of people who made the unGodly mistake of referring to the Jan. 6 riot as a riot.

He's still trying to do revisionist history of his own.

After all his firings of thousands of political enemies the word "purge" comes to mind.

In the past the word purge was associated with Stalin and Hitler and other criminal dictators.

Now we can associate it with an American president.

Jan. 6 riot..............

Can this be called a riot? Look at the fools climbing like monkeys to break into Congress...........and attacking and injuring cops in the process.

The shameful behavior is so pervasive that's it's being ignored.

That's all part of the plan.

 

[Flipper Dude]

One man calls you an ass, blow it off.
37 men call you an ass, better start looking for a saddle.

 

[Frostbite]

Total BS. The "Palestinians" refused a deal that would have given them their own state and The "Palestinians" refused.

No.

You're the one spewing BS.

Read and learn history.

No, Palestinians have never been offered the unrestricted right to return to their homes in what is now Israel. Israel has consistently rejected this concept since the refugee crisis began in 1948, primarily due to concerns about the demographic impact on its Jewish majority. However, during negotiations, Israel has made offers involving limited return, resettlement, and compensation.
UN resolutions regarding the right of return
The UN has addressed the right of return in several resolutions, though their interpretation is debated.

• Resolution 194 (1948) suggests that refugees wishing to return and live peacefully should be permitted to do so, with compensation for those who do not. Israel argues this language is not mandatory.
• Resolution 3236 (1974) affirmed the right of return as an "inalienable right" for Palestinians.
• While Israel committed to implementing Resolution 194 upon joining the UN, it has not recognized an absolute Palestinian right of return.

Hope that helps with your education.

A Forgotten Detail: The Right of Return was a Condition of the Establishment of the State of Israel​

A Forgotten Detail: The Right of Return was a Condition of the Establishment of the State of Israel

[Shahd Hammouri is a Lecturer in Law at the University of Kent. She researches tensions arising at the intersection of the public and the economic in international law from a global south perspecti…

opiniojuris.org

 

[Frostbite]

One man calls you an ass, blow it off.
37 men call you an ass, better start looking for a saddle.

LOL!

That just means the 37 have no rational and adult responses.

(And they're ignorant.)

They should listen to the wisdom of hickok45.

 

[mdwest]

One man calls you an ass, blow it off.
37 men call you an ass, better start looking for a saddle.

that is signature line material right there...

letting you know in advance that Im stealing it!

 

[Red Leg]

2000 Camp David Summit - At the last minute, Yasser Arafat turned down a deal that offered a Palestinian state including 96% of the West Bank, a capital in East Jerusalem, and 4% of Israel as compensation. His stated rejection, after he and his team had jointly worked out the terms of the agreement, was supposedly due to concerns over the terms for Jerusalem and the right of return for refugees, with last minute disagreements focusing on sovereignty over parts of Jerusalem and land swaps. This rejection led to the failure of the summit and the outbreak of the Second Intifada.

Analysis at the time and that of many since suggest that the real deal breaker was Arafat's late realization that the one element sure to be of no consequence following the establishment of a Palestinian State was Yasser Arafat.

Was the deal perfect? Of course not - for neither Israel nor the Palestinians - the characteristics of any good settlement. That said, it is unlikely anyone could successfully argue the Palestinian position would be worse today had they chosen that moment to create a state with a recognized capital. Instead they chose to embrace terrorism and the leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah.

On October 7th they sowed the wind and are now reaping the whirlwind. There is no one to blame but the Palestinians, and not an Arab leader in the Middle East except perhaps Abdulmalik al-Houthi would privately disagree with that assertion.

The parallels to December 7th, 1941 are compelling. On that day, just over 2300 Americans were killed in a surprise Japanese attack. On the night of March 9/10 1945, US B-29 bombers fire-bombed Tokyo resulting in the deaths of 100,000 people and leaving another 1.5 million homeless - nearly all civilians. Tokyo was just one of 67 cities targeted with incendiaries by B-29 raids. Two atomic bombs completed the destruction. Sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.

 

[mdwest]

2000 Camp David Summit - At the last minute, Yasser Arafat turned down a deal that offered a Palestinian state including 96% of the West Bank, a capital in East Jerusalem, and 4% of Israel as compensation. His stated rejection, after he and his team had jointly worked out the terms of the agreement, was supposedly due to concerns over the terms for Jerusalem and the right of return for refugees, with last minute disagreements focusing on sovereignty over parts of Jerusalem and land swaps. This rejection led to the failure of the summit and the outbreak of the Second Intifada.

Analysis at the time and that of many since suggest that the real deal breaker was Arafat's late realization that the one element sure to be of no consequence following the establishment of a Palestinian State was Yasser Arafat.

Was the deal perfect? Of course not - for neither Israel nor the Palestinians - the characteristics of any good settlement. That said, it is unlikely anyone could successfully argue the Palestinian position would be worse today had they chosen that moment to create a state with a recognized capital. Instead they chose to embrace terrorism and the leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah.

On October 7th they sowed the wind and are now reaping the whirlwind. There is no one to blame but the Palestinians, and not an Arab leader in the Middle East except perhaps Abdulmalik al-Houthi would privately disagree with that assertion.

The parallels to December 7th, 1941 are compelling. On that day, just over 2300 Americans were killed in a surprise Japanese attack. On the night of March 9/10 1945, US B-29 bombers fire-bombed Tokyo resulting in the deaths of 100,000 people and leaving another 1.5 million homeless - nearly all civilians. Tokyo was just one of 67 cities targeted with incendiaries by B-29 raids. Two atomic bombs completed the destruction. Sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.

Wait Joe.. I mean.. you only spent a substantial portion of your life living in the region, speak arabic, have extensively studied the geopolitical issues of the middle east most of your adult life, and served at the flag officer level and as a strategic planner for the region.. what could you possibly know about all of this...

we must defer to frostys wisdom on this.. he has google after all!

 

[Hunt anything]

I finally succumbed and hit the magic button. I’ve been trying to ignore the thread, but perhaps just ignoring the trolls will work.

I’ve tried the same but I just can’t help myself! It’s like passing a train wreck!

 

[Frostbite]

2000 Camp David Summit - At the last minute, Yasser Arafat turned down a deal that offered a Palestinian state including 96% of the West Bank, a capital in East Jerusalem, and 4% of Israel as compensation. His stated rejection, after he and his team had jointly worked out the terms of the agreement, was supposedly due to concerns over the terms for Jerusalem and the right of return for refugees...

A Forgotten Detail: The Right of Return was a Condition of the Establishment of the State of Israel​

In this respect, the committee stressed in the report that Israel was under a binding obligation to permit the return of all the Palestinian refugees displaced as a result of the hostilities of 1948 and 1967.

A Forgotten Detail: The Right of Return was a Condition of the Establishment of the State of Israel

[Shahd Hammouri is a Lecturer in Law at the University of Kent. She researches tensions arising at the intersection of the public and the economic in international law from a global south perspecti…

opiniojuris.org