Politics

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Your rights can also become removes with change in regime.

Yes, that was part of the point of the 2nd amendment.

 

[mdwest]

I fully concure with you in your argument but it doesn’t change the fact God gives and removes because he is sovereign. Read the bible. God gives land and riches but also takes it away again because of sin and idolworship among other things. Your rights can also become removes with change in regime.

Once again you fail to understand the 2nd Amendment.

If there is a change in Regime.. thats exactly why the Bill of Rights exists.. it is foundational to the system of government in the US.. the point specifically of the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights is to be able to resist government/tyrants/etc..

There is a system by which the US Constitution can be amended or changed.. there are 2 specific ways..

The first requires a 2/3 majority vote in Congress... this is how all of the amendments to the US Constitution have been made so far (27 total amendments).. Its important to note that in 249 years NONE of the original 10 amendments (the Bill of Rights) have been touched in any way.. If anything, the 14th Amendment actually made the original 10 amendments (Bill of Rights) even more strong as it extended the bill of rights down to State level government as well..

Only the 18th Amendment (Prohibition) has ever been repealed by Congress.. it was repealed by the passing of the 21st Amendment..

The other way the Constitution can be amended or changed is calling a National Convention.. where 2/3 of the State legislatures demand a convention be held to propose an amendment... This has never happened.. however, key to understand, this is also the tool that keeps the first method in check.. For example if heavily populated liberal states like California, New York, and Illinois all banded together and somehow were able to obtain a 2/3 majority congressional vote on something that 2/3 of the states didnt support, the states would be able to call a National Convention and simply repeal anything that congressional 2/3 majority passed..

Another key thing to understand is one an Amendment is passed by either Congress or a National Convention, it must be ratified.. which requires 3/4 of all state legislatures to vote in favor of it (38 out of 50).. alternatively it can be ratified by a national convention where 3/4 of the attendees must vote in favor of it..

So, no.. a simple regime change cant just change the constitution or the bill of rights.. it would take 3/4 of the entire US population agreeing to that change.. and if 3/4 opposed the change and a new regime attempted to do it anyway.. thats exactly the point of the 2nd amendment.. to oppose tyrannical government..


As far as God deciding to make a change.. well... thats once again exactly what the bill or rights is telling you.. that God gave the right, not man, not government, etc..

If God chooses to disarm the entire population of the US.. its a pretty safe bet the approach he'd take would be convincing 3/4 of the population that they no longer needed/wanted to be armed.. and then they'd use the government to make the change..

Or.. alternatively, He's come back, the end times are here.. and whether or not we have a firearm should probably be the least of anyones worries..

 

[1dirthawker]

well said @mdwest!!

 

[Brent in Az]

Speaking of God and guns ......a mass shooting at a Minneapolis Catholic school .
Satan rules this planet, until the return of Christ, which will hopefully be soon.

 

[steve white]

Mass shooting receive far more attention than they deserve IMO. They are statistically irrelevant as compared to the tens of thousands of times that legal gun owners exercise their right of self defense by use of legally owned firearms every year. I don't want tens of thousands of innocent victims left at the mercy of thugs because someone emoted over a mass shooting and took our means of defense away from us.
LOL, I know of a little granny, in her 80s that fired a single barrel 20 ga. shotgun out the back door, into the air when she heard someone trying to break in a window to the side. "Boy, did they run" she told me. She was the mother of my Greek language professor at Seminary, Dr. Ray Summers!

 

[Brent in Az]

Mass shooting receive far more attention than they deserve IMO. They are statistically irrelevant as compared to the tens of thousands of times that legal gun owners exercise their right of self defense by use of legally owned firearms every year. I don't want tens of thousands of innocent victims left at the mercy of thugs because someone emoted over a mass shooting and took our means of defense away from us.
LOL, I know of a little granny, in her 80s that fired a single barrel 20 ga. shotgun out the back door, into the air when she heard someone trying to break in a window to the side. "Boy, did they run" she told me. She was the mother of my Greek language professor at Seminary, Dr. Ray Summers!

With that analogy, I guess slaughtered children deserve no attention or consideration.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

With that analogy, I guess slaughtered children deserve no attention or consideration.

He may not have worded it quite right but I take his meaning.

There is an issue of media and politicians overstating the unlikely risk of a school shooting over far more common risks of death from other forms of violence. Often violence that they don’t want to address.

It’s sort of like the risk of dying in a plane crash over a car crash. One is extremely rare but will make headlines for months if it occurs while people simply accept the other as part of life. In 2023, 229 people died in commercial plane incidents globally. That same year, over 4,000 people were killed in car accidents, just in California. Yet people are generally far more worried about the risk of dying in a plane crash than their daily commute.

Politicians and activists will say that there is an epidemic of school shootings while ignoring the death of children from more common causes. Obviously there shouldn’t be any school shootings but the knee jerk reaction to “do something” regardless of who it harms or whether it’s effective needs to be restrained.

 

[steve white]

With that analogy, I guess slaughtered children deserve no attention or consideration.

I said "more than they deserve". Also, copy cat killers thrive on the over sensationalizing of incidents. The incidents are used politically against us by those who want to disarm us, despite lessons from history. How many little children are protected by their loving parents who are armed against weirdos?
Anyone with any decency cares for children. Of course, not all shooting involve children in the first place. My statement was not with specific regard to the above shootings.
Agree that Jesus will set things right and rule with a rod of iron some day.

 

[Brent in Az]

He may not have worded it quite right but I take his meaning.

There is an issue of media and politicians overstating the unlikely risk of a school shooting over far more common risks of death from other forms of violence. Often violence that they don’t want to address.

It’s sort of like the risk of dying in a plane crash over a car crash. One is extremely rare but will make headlines for months if it occurs while people simply accept the other as part of life. In 2023, 229 people died in commercial plane incidents globally. That same year, over 4,000 people were killed in car accidents, just in California. Yet people are generally far more worried about the risk of dying in a plane crash than their daily commute.

Politicians and activists will say that there is an epidemic of school shootings while ignoring the death of children from more common causes. Obviously there shouldn’t be any school shootings but the knee jerk reaction to “do something” regardless of who it harms or whether it’s effective needs to be restrained.

You are comparing "apples to oranges". People dying in tragic accidents is a far cry different, then people being gunned down in cold blood by deranged killers with an evil soul.
It's easier for the media and politicians to blame a gun, versus the true root of the cause.......mental instability.
Many times these killers leave clues and comments on social media, that is subsequently ignored. The same thing goes with family and friends that may ignore the warning signs.
The gun grabber's have been pounding the podium for decades. That will never change.
That doesn't mean we cant convey sympathy and compassion for lives being lost in a senseless manner, instead of always focusing on our own selfish interests.
We need to always fight the good fight to keep our gun rights, but the powers that be need to fight the good fight to keep firearms out of the hands of mentally unstable people.

 

[mdwest]

but the powers that be need to fight the good fight to keep firearms out of the hands of mentally unstable people.

That is the very core of the "mass shooting" problem..

Sometimes sane people kill other people.. crimes of passion.. it happens during the commission of another crime (ie a bank robbery turns into a murder), etc.. those tend to be isolated incidents however and dont often involve more than one or two deaths...

But Ive yet to ever hear about a mass shooting incident where the shooter didnt have serious mental health problems.. Sane people dont just go somewhere and start killing random people.. Sane people dont go "postal" and just start killing co-workers or fellow students, etc..

In most cases within the last couple of decades people KNEW the shooter had mental health problems in advance (social media posts, public behaviors, etc)..

But for fear of offending someone, or fear of liability for actually calling people out for their behaviors, or fear of being publicly chastised for calling people out for their behaviors... the public at large just sits silently on the sidelines until something happens..

Until we fix the mental health problem in our country, we're not going to fix the mass murder problem in our country.. guns just make it easier for some people... take the guns away, and a mentally unstable person that wants to kill a lot of people will find a way to do it.. they'll use their car to run over dozens, killing 14 and injuring 57 like the guy in New Orleans did: https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fiel...investigative-update-in-bourbon-street-attack .. or theyll pick up a machete and hack up 14 people like the guy did in Red Lion PA https://www.pennlive.com/news/2023/...tral-pa-elementary-school-dies-in-prison.html Or they'll set fires to inhabited buildings in the middle of the night like happened in Chicago earlier this year, killing 4... etc..etc..etc..

Crazy murderous people, no matter what their motivation is (religious ideology, bullying, want to be famous, etc etc etc) are going to be crazy murderous people... and will find a tool to execute their desire to murder people.. guns absolutely make things easier for them.. but a gun is not the only tool at their disposal..

the question isnt what we're going to do about guns... the question is what are we going to do about crazy murderous people?

 

[Brent in Az]

Lots of clues. How many were immediately reported to the authorities that could prevent these slaughter's?
The tranny psychopaths manifesto rant was taken down by YouTube.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

You are comparing "apples to oranges". People dying in tragic accidents is a far cry different, then people being gunned down in cold blood by deranged killers with an evil soul.
It's easier for the media and politicians to blame a gun, versus the true root of the cause.......mental instability.
Many times these killers leave clues and comments on social media, that is subsequently ignored. The same thing goes with family and friends that may ignore the warning signs.
The gun grabber's have been pounding the podium for decades. That will never change.
That doesn't mean we cant convey sympathy and compassion for lives being lost in a senseless manner, instead of always focusing on our own selfish interests.
We need to always fight the good fight to keep our gun rights, but the powers that be need to fight the good fight to keep firearms out of the hands of mentally unstable people.

I don’t think we’re necessarily in disagreement with each other.

 

[Neil Molendyk]

It is unfortunate that Freeland and Trudeau are inept. They are just making things much more difficult for the average Canadian. Hopefully Freeland and Trudeau will figure things out before things get to bad for our friends in the great white north.

To get the full experience, try living in Alberta.

 

[hyipl]

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[Tanks]

. If anything, the 14th Amendment actually made the original 10 amendments (Bill of Rights) even more strong as it extended the bill of rights down to State level government as well..

Yet, Trump and MAGA want to do away with the 14th Amendment.

 

[mdwest]

Yet, Trump and MAGA want to do away with the 14th Amendment.

You’ll have to educate me on that one…

I’ve heard the extreme left raising hell on all the the illegal alien round ups and deportation… and also about birthright citizenship…I’ve also heard them try to invoke the “due process” clause in the 14th amendment as it relates to illegals..

While at the same time I’ve heard numerous constitutional scholars and serving judges on the right speak to the validity and support of Trumps position on all of the above…

I’m no constitutional scholar… but I don’t find it a mere coincidence that known left wing judges, primarily in left wing states are filing all the law suits… while conservative judges in right wing states are supporting…

Seems to me that there’s a bit of a personal values conflict going on that will end up getting resolved at the SCOTUS level…

 

[RLD]

Mass shooting receive far more attention than they deserve IMO. They are statistically irrelevant as compared to the tens of thousands of times that legal gun owners exercise their right of self defense by use of legally owned firearms every year. I don't want tens of thousands of innocent victims left at the mercy of thugs because someone emoted over a mass shooting and took our means of defense away from us.
LOL, I know of a little granny, in her 80s that fired a single barrel 20 ga. shotgun out the back door, into the air when she heard someone trying to break in a window to the side. "Boy, did they run" she told me. She was the mother of my Greek language professor at Seminary, Dr. Ray Summers!

I suspect the parents and friends of those dead children disagree with you that they are getting more attention than they deserve.

 

[RLD]

You’ll have to educate me on that one…

I’ve heard the extreme left raising hell on all the the illegal alien round ups and deportation… and also about birthright citizenship…I’ve also heard them try to invoke the “due process” clause in the 14th amendment as it relates to illegals..

While at the same time I’ve heard numerous constitutional scholars and serving judges on the right speak to the validity and support of Trumps position on all of the above…

I’m no constitutional scholar… but I don’t find it a mere coincidence that known left wing judges, primarily in left wing states are filing all the law suits… while conservative judges in right wing states are supporting…

Seems to me that there’s a bit of a personal values conflict going on that will end up getting resolved at the SCOTUS level…

I think Trump has likely stepped over a number of constitutional boundaries in a number of ways and after it all grinds it way up to SCOTUS we will know for sure. A lot of that we won't know until he is out of office as that stuff takes time.

ATM I am more personally concerned about his movement towards socialism and state ownership of the means of production and controlling the pricing of products.

 

[mdwest]

I think Trump has likely stepped over a number of constitutional boundaries in a number of ways and after it all grinds it way up to SCOTUS we will know for sure. A lot of that we won't know until he is out of office as that stuff takes time.

ATM I am more personally concerned about his movement towards socialism and state ownership of the means of production and controlling the pricing of products.

Every President steps over a number of constitutional boundaries… Biden and Obama did… Reagan did… Clinton and both Bush’s did, etc…

That’s really the purpose of the checks and balances set up in our system of government where the legislative and judicial and executive branches all have the ability to put the others in check when necessary..

I completely concur on the issue of government taking equity stake in businesses.. while I don’t think our constitution would prevent it, I am hopeful our legislative branch will find a way to kill that concept before it ever has an opportunity to hatch…

I absolutely hate the concept of government in any form involving itself at the ownership level in business…

 

[Tanks]

I completely concur on the issue of government taking equity stake in businesses.. while I don’t think our constitution would prevent it, I am hopeful our legislative branch will find a way to kill that concept before it ever has an opportunity to hatch…

It has been happening at State and City level for decades. Years ago we bid on an automation project for a municipality. LADWP (LA Department of Water and Power) came in and bid us out. I was pretty pissed off that an entity owned by a city was competing against the private sector and threatened to sue. They gave us a consulting contract to bill monthly amounting to the profit on that job.