Politics

[Kevin Peacocke]

Until somebody in Russia calls a halt, Putin or his generals, this war will continue. The West trickle fed Ukraine when they could have given them the ability to be decisive, so now we have the next level of them semi-effectively attacking 'Russian soil'. They will not stop.
The soft way out now is to force the Ukranians to accept their lot at the negotiating table, but throwing them under the bus tastes really bad and leaves Russia emboldened. The hard way is to arm Ukraine to the teeth to quickly win this field battle and call Russia's bluff on the nukes. Dangerous, but unless it is done then we are back to the cool war forever.
There is a third option - up the ante. Tell Russia that if they play the annexation game and then threaten nukes on everyone then Nato will immediately declare Ukraine in total a member state with all the repercussions.

 

[SaintPanzer]

You might think automatically that it was the Russians who did this, but the biggest winner would be the US actually.

If there would come some kind of truce/agreement / whatever in the Ukraine question, it would normally follow that Russia starts gas deliveries again. However due to these leaks this would then not be possible immediately. Meaning the US would remain one of the big exporters of gas to the EU.

Alternatively, if you like some conspiracy theories, this could be the Russians after all, trying to show that pipelines in the North Sea are not safe… hint hint Norwegian pipes.

Considering how well we've managed to shut down our domestic energy supply, this makes very little sense.

If, on day one, there was an executive order to expand fracking, run the keystone pipeline, open offshore drilling and new leases on federal land, etc., you would have a point. In reality...

 

[marksman]

Considering how well we've managed to shut down our domestic energy supply, this makes very little sense.

If, on day one, there was an executive order to expand fracking, run the keystone pipeline, open offshore drilling and new leases on federal land, etc., you would have a point. In reality...

American motives to blow up the nord stream pipelines quoted from the analysis l will post below that say that America has been exporting LNG, this is not the only place l have seen this said as well as how much more expensive this gas is compared to the cheaper Russian export

"First, the US became the number one exporter of liquified natural gas to Europe once Russia cut off the flow. German dependence on US LNG is a carrot to keep German in the sanction alliance. With winter approaching and German unrest on the rise, the State Department would have been concerned the Germans would go wobbly, reduce sanctions, cut off arms to Ukraine, and beg Putin for energy. The loss of the Nord Stream pipelines eliminates that path to renewed gas imports to Germany.

Second, the Biden family has long been tangled up in natural gas and Ukraine. Hunter Biden was on the board of Ukraine’s largest natural gas company—a position that provided Ukrainian oligarchs with access to Joe Biden. Hunter, who has no experience in energy, made millions from the deal, and Ukraine got a bought-and-paid-for President of the United States.

Third, the Democrat Biden needs to stanch the popularity bleeding that threatens to kill Democrat control of Congress come November"

ANALYSIS: Nord Stream Pipelines Sabotaged, and Only One Country Benefits | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

While the MSM and governments reported "leaks" in the pipelines following sudden pressure drops to zero, Swedish seismologists knew better.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[marksman]

You see, Russia blew up their own pipeline but NOT the Norway-EU pipeline that’s right next to it and just opened today?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574947720464171008

Baltic Pipe gas pipeline opens, connects Norway and Poland

www.euractiv.com

 

[bowjijohn]

Once again, it is this belief that NATO will back down and that Russia can negotiate a win, that is so dangerous

For all the danger Putin represents, he and Russia are a minor irritant compared with China

Capitulation to an organised crime gang in Moscow would send deadly signals to Xi

 

[spike.t]

Russia poised to annex Ukraine regions after ‘sham’ referendum

Moscow-backed officials will ask Russian President Vladimir Putin to incorporate the areas into Russia following votes.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[spike.t]

 

[Ray B]

Russia has had 50 megaton bombs since I was in elementary school, they have the three systems of deployment (subs, planes & land based). But from appearances the delivery systems, even if well maintained are very outdated. The US didn't get the Star Wars defense system proposed by pres Reagan, but I suspect there are defense systems technology that has far surpassed what was thought 35 years ago. If Russia did decide to go nuke- I wonder how many bombs would make it to their target.

 

[Zambezi]

Even 1 reaching NY or DC would be a catastrophe (ok maybe not DC)... 10 reaching major centres would be unthinkable. I would say that they could probably launch 1000 (a huge guess here) so in theory if only 1% reach that is 1% to many.

I have always had the feeling that the west could and would respond in a conventional manner. What we have seen from what's happening in the Ukraine it reinforces my feeling. The west would easily overwhelm any defences that Russia has.

The problem comes thereafter when Russia is completely defeated. What does one do? Line the whole population up against a wall and take retribution for making the US a non-habitable waste land? What becomes of Russia after a nuclear strike from them? Would anyone ever deal with them again. What is the level below pariah which they would surely become? How would a defeated Russia ever be able to compensate not only the US but the planet for the destruction that would last centuries? Even turning them into a nation of slaves as punishment would never be enough.

The alternative is a retaliatory strike that would result in the end as we know it as the west would "land" 10 for every one that Russia lands. MAD is a great theory but it is only meant to be a theory. The west would probably not use nukes and would not need to. But then you leave an enemy homeland that is still habitable. And maybe that is the answer of sorts. Not THE answer but one: Turn Russia into one big gulag to feed the US where it is no longer viable to grow food.

Let's pray that it never comes to that.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I don't think Putin cares in his current state of mind. He knows he's finished on the world stage as a leader and could give a rat's a** about the Russian people.

This is what I think of Putin. Russians are survivors...

 

[WAB]

to give you an honest answer WAB, but it is "speculation" LOL
l do not see this war ending on the battle field, l see it ending in negotiations

"at what price peace?"
what l do not get is that it seems NOBODY thought that the Biden Governments idea on how to escape from Afghanistan leaving the Taliban (the so called enemy) all those weapons of war was a good idea but there is trust in the same government or nato that its a good idea to keep sending game changers that will be the one to bring peace to Ukraine?
so how much peace has it bought so far? the place will be completely destroyed so who wins if Putin backs out now? you and l will still be paying for it and so will our children while the Ukrainians wont have anything to fight for, that's right America keep sending money and himars we will pay for it LOL
this would never have happened under Trump

maybe l just dont get it but you cannot trust a farkup one moment and then not another and its not just the sleepy joe face of the party making these farkup decisions
make up yer farken mind "do you trust what your leaders are getting you into and what they have done so far?"
you want the fight then dont complain about the cost
what l think anyway

I’m afraid that we have very little common ground for discussion on this issue, other than we are both sickened by the loss of innocent lives.

Please understand that to most Americans, posting a picture of George Floyd next to a photo of fallen heroes is not well received.

 

[mdwest]

Please understand that to most Americans, posting a picture of George Floyd next to a photo of fallen heroes is not well received.

I’d go so far as to say it’s disgusting and Intentionally distasteful…

 

[Sabattiboy]

They were also purported to have the second best army in the world. Considering how this war has proved they don't live up to that billing, the real question is if Russia actually has anywhere near the capabilities we've all been conditioned to think they have. If their nuclear capability is on par with the (lack of) demonstrated conventional strength, this could well be another of Putin's bluffs. Question is whether or not anyone will call it. The consequences if it isn't a bluff could be catastrophic; if he is bluffing, he'll keep drawing a new line in the sand as he continues threatening the world. Eventually, he will run out of sand.

And push whatever button he has?
There are several regimes that would use a nuke if they had it. I am amazed that it hasn't happened yet.
Three nuclear accidents, that I recall or know about, that leave a continuing mark on the earth.
To me the question is who will be the first to do it and to what perceived enemy or reasoning.
Under Obama, it appeared India and Pakistan were on the brink of nuking each other but somehow got past it. Hillary as Secretary of State returned from visiting them and made one statement: This is dangerous!

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[SaintPanzer]

American motives to blow up the nord stream pipelines quoted from the analysis l will post below that say that America has been exporting LNG, this is not the only place l have seen this said as well as how much more expensive this gas is compared to the cheaper Russian export

"First, the US became the number one exporter of liquified natural gas to Europe once Russia cut off the flow. German dependence on US LNG is a carrot to keep German in the sanction alliance. With winter approaching and German unrest on the rise, the State Department would have been concerned the Germans would go wobbly, reduce sanctions, cut off arms to Ukraine, and beg Putin for energy. The loss of the Nord Stream pipelines eliminates that path to renewed gas imports to Germany.

Second, the Biden family has long been tangled up in natural gas and Ukraine. Hunter Biden was on the board of Ukraine’s largest natural gas company—a position that provided Ukrainian oligarchs with access to Joe Biden. Hunter, who has no experience in energy, made millions from the deal, and Ukraine got a bought-and-paid-for President of the United States.

Third, the Democrat Biden needs to stanch the popularity bleeding that threatens to kill Democrat control of Congress come November"

ANALYSIS: Nord Stream Pipelines Sabotaged, and Only One Country Benefits | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

While the MSM and governments reported "leaks" in the pipelines following sudden pressure drops to zero, Swedish seismologists knew better.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

That really is a simplistic analysis. Germany just signed a deal in the mid-east, so "dependence" on US gas is not really critical. It also doesn't consider the US ability to ship more gas. Additionally, the Germans aren't really shipping that many weapons, so "cutting off arms" makes no sense. Final point (I'm getting bored), when the Green party in Germany amps up coal use and leaves on 2 nuclear power plants (the Greens, for all love), going wobbly does not yet seem an immediate concern. Stop spewing Russian propaganda.

 

[Ray B]

It's interesting to realize that the "its" (not deserving of the title human) had no conception of what would be done in their name following their demise- the it in Ferguson to the it in Minneapolis.

What is clear is that there are evil ones that took a visual or phrase and used it to destroy at least in part, America