Politics

Hitler for certain. Again all I can hope for is that history has taught some Russians in high places a lesson. We’re certainly at this point not going to ”see” who those may be that would counter him, at least not those in places where they would be capable of stopping this madness. If we could, they’d already be dead.

Time will tell.
Well, Hitler or Stalin. Remember, Stalin "eliminated" some THREE MILLION of his "friends and closest advisors" in his mentally deranged purge of those that were "out to get him". He had their faces removed from every photograph ever taken. Putin hasn't gone that far yet, but then again, he now has nuclear weapons to "purge" any perceived enemies or threats against him. Truly a nightmare scenario for the entire world.
 
Since you laughed at @Red Leg and his post and then reading your post, I assume you’re assuming that the U.S. did this. My question is if so, to what
obviously to cut the gas source to Germany to push the Europeans into finding different sources of gas instead of making rubles for Russia
if Putin wanted to cut the supply he has a spigot to shut it down he did not need to blow it up or hide what he would do, he has been dealing with Germany from the start about how to keep the gas flowing to Germany while Germany is against the Russians LOL
Europe is going to go through some very tough times this winter

strange days ahead now that the referendum to join Russia outcome is being announced
l'm sure there will be a few changes made, but hey instead of sending more nato weapons of war and billions of American dollars to create peace for the common people of Ukraine, Ukraine could always cut their losses and try to work things out instead


Yh7sjg4.jpg
 
obviously to cut the gas source to Germany to push the Europeans into finding different sources of gas instead of making rubles for Russia
if Putin wanted to cut the supply he has a spigot to shut it down he did not need to blow it up or hide what he would do, he has been dealing with Germany from the start about how to keep the gas flowing to Germany while Germany is against the Russians LOL
Europe is going to go through some very tough times this winter

strange days ahead now that the referendum to join Russia outcome is being announced
l'm sure there will be a few changes made, but hey instead of sending more nato weapons of war and billions of American dollars to create peace for the common people of Ukraine, Ukraine could always cut their losses and try to work things out instead


Yh7sjg4.jpg

Russia was cutting their gas supplies regardless. You’re speculating and I can speculate just as easily that this was a foolish attempt by Russia to show that the US is the true enemy of Russia.

Referendum? You mean farce….please.

Yes, Ukraine could cut their losses and follow the likes of Chamberlain. Or they could continue to tell Putin to f@ck himself….so far the latter seems to be going much better than anyone expected at least if you’re not Putin.
 
obviously to cut the gas source to Germany to push the Europeans into finding different sources of gas instead of making rubles for Russia
if Putin wanted to cut the supply he has a spigot to shut it down he did not need to blow it up or hide what he would do, he has been dealing with Germany from the start about how to keep the gas flowing to Germany while Germany is against the Russians LOL
Europe is going to go through some very tough times this winter

strange days ahead now that the referendum to join Russia outcome is being announced
l'm sure there will be a few changes made, but hey instead of sending more nato weapons of war and billions of American dollars to create peace for the common people of Ukraine, Ukraine could always cut their losses and try to work things out instead


Yh7sjg4.jpg
I saw where 94% of the population of one Ukranian "enclave" "voted" to become part of Russia. Ha! Ha! Ha! You couldn't get 94% of the population of any enclave, city, county, borough, homeless camp, or Space Station anywhere in the WORLD or BEYOND to vote for ANYTHING at a 94% approval rating! What a joke!
 
I saw where 94% of the population of one Ukranian "enclave" "voted" to become part of Russia. Ha! Ha! Ha! You couldn't get 94% of the population of any enclave, city, county, borough, homeless camp, or Space Station anywhere in the WORLD or BEYOND to vote for ANYTHING at a 94% approval rating! What a joke!
You can when you have the AK in your hands and hand them the ballot....
 
obviously to cut the gas source to Germany to push the Europeans into finding different sources of gas instead of making rubles for Russia
if Putin wanted to cut the supply he has a spigot to shut it down he did not need to blow it up or hide what he would do, he has been dealing with Germany from the start about how to keep the gas flowing to Germany while Germany is against the Russians LOL
Europe is going to go through some very tough times this winter

strange days ahead now that the referendum to join Russia outcome is being announced
l'm sure there will be a few changes made, but hey instead of sending more nato weapons of war and billions of American dollars to create peace for the common people of Ukraine, Ukraine could always cut their losses and try to work things out instead


Yh7sjg4.jpg
Or simply keep doing what they are doing. I mean, after all, Ukraine has essentially defeated Russia's standing army (the second army in the world? I mean, everyone surely buys into that charade after this demonstration of incompetence and ineptitude). But no worries, all will be just fine. He is deploying the untrained and the ill equipped to salvage the situation. What a 20 year old trained T-80 tank commander couldn't do, a 45 year old in a T-62 will salvage. It will be interesting to see how many more knots Putin can twist into the excuses for this utterly catastrophic special military operation before the Russian people have had enough.
 
Russia was cutting their gas supplies regardless. You’re speculating and I can speculate just as easily that this was a foolish attempt by Russia to show that the US is the true enemy of Russia.

Referendum? You mean farce….please.

Yes, Ukraine could cut their losses and follow the likes of Chamberlain. Or they could continue to tell Putin to f@ck himself….so far the latter seems to be going much better than anyone expected at least if you’re not Putin.
Well, history has shown what Chamberlain's "doctrine of appeasement" produced? Only a strategically and perhaps costly delay for the Allies entering WW2. Hmmm...... Chamberlain and Biden? Both braindead diplomats!
 
Russia was cutting their gas supplies regardless. You’re speculating and I can speculate just as easily that this was a foolish attempt by Russia to show that the US is the true enemy of Russia.

Referendum? You mean farce….please.

Yes, Ukraine could cut their losses and follow the likes of Chamberlain. Or they could continue to tell Putin to f@ck himself….so far the latter seems to be going much better than anyone expected at least if you’re not Putin.
well time will tell Phil
it always comes out in the wash;)
lets go Brandon

uzmXJyM.jpg
 
obviously to cut the gas source to Germany to push the Europeans into finding different sources of gas instead of making rubles for Russia
if Putin wanted to cut the supply he has a spigot to shut it down he did not need to blow it up or hide what he would do, he has been dealing with Germany from the start about how to keep the gas flowing to Germany while Germany is against the Russians LOL
Europe is going to go through some very tough times this winter

strange days ahead now that the referendum to join Russia outcome is being announced
l'm sure there will be a few changes made, but hey instead of sending more nato weapons of war and billions of American dollars to create peace for the common people of Ukraine, Ukraine could always cut their losses and try to work things out instead


Yh7sjg4.jpg

Are you seriously suggesting that Ukraine sue for peace and give up territory to this lunatic? That would not appease him, it would only give him a chance to regroup and re-engage. It would also abandon all of their stranded countrymen to a life of horror in the new Russian territory. At what price peace?

In my mind, Ukraine has no option but to recapture all lost territory. At that point, with a thoroughly beaten Russia, they must join NATO to secure future protection when the bear rebuilds.
 
In my mind, Ukraine has no option but to recapture all lost territory. At that point, with a thoroughly beaten Russia, they must join NATO to secure future protection when the bear rebuilds.

The corner Putin has painted himself into.
 
I’m not completely sure NATO will accept Ukraine… there are still several member nations that I think may resist out of fear of Russian reprisals (still counting on Russian oil and gas, worried about cyber reprisals, etc)…
 
I’m not completely sure NATO will accept Ukraine… there are still several member nations that I think may resist out of fear of Russian reprisals (still counting on Russian oil and gas, worried about cyber reprisals, etc)…
I agree with you here. But I do think there with be multilateral agreements with Ukraine for protection etc IF they conform to certain western ideals and standards (and western beneficial trade agreements etc).
 
As with any activity- look for who would benefit and who would be hurt. That will give a starting list of possible perpetrators and victims.

You might think automatically that it was the Russians who did this, but the biggest winner would be the US actually.

If there would come some kind of truce/agreement / whatever in the Ukraine question, it would normally follow that Russia starts gas deliveries again. However due to these leaks this would then not be possible immediately. Meaning the US would remain one of the big exporters of gas to the EU.

Alternatively, if you like some conspiracy theories, this could be the Russians after all, trying to show that pipelines in the North Sea are not safe… hint hint Norwegian pipes.
 


Well this is some real Tom Clancy sh&t. Apparently, both Nord Stream pipelines were blown overnight (one Nord Stream 2 line - they are paired - may remain). Judging by the size of the rising gas, they were completely cut, and likely so extensively damaged as to require several months are longer to repair. All three blasts were near simultaneous and took place just outside any territorial waters. The obvious explosive charges were sufficient to register on Scandinavian seismic stations. They also were detonated the same time the new Baltic line running from Norway to Poland (further reducing Western European dependence on Russia) was inaugurated.

I have yet to see an indication of water depth, but considering the location and time of year, this likely wasn't three guys with snorkels operating from a fishing boat. This would have had to have been done by professional naval SOF team. Russia, the US, and probably three other NATO countries would have the expertise to do it. Both Russia and the US could have used SOF teams operating from submarines. I am unsure about British, French, or German underwater capability, though over the side deployment would be possible from a surface vessel depending upon depth. If that happened there is likely a radar paper trail.

So who and why?

Russia did it in a snit and to potentially threaten other pipelines like the new Baltic line.

a) Nord Stream 2 has never been opened
b) Nord Stream 1 has been largely down for "maintenance" reasons for a couple of months

Russia did it because it believes severing natural gas completely will cause panic in Western Europe as winter approaches.

a) Closing the tap would have seemed more effective than destroying it. If the flow can't be turned back on, then the leverage against NATO vanishes.
b) Is an explicit threat to the new Norwegian pipeline.

Russia did it to cast suspicion on the US and thus break NATO solidarity - a Russian "false flag" operation.

Putin did it to undermine internal opposition wanting to make an accommodation with Ukraine and NATO

The US did it.

a) Removes much of the leverage of opposition European parties to continuing support of Ukraine.
b) Accelerates European search for alternative sources.

Germany did it. See "a" above.

Russian ultra-nationalists within the Russian Military/Government did it as a way of forcing Putin to take more decisive actions against Ukraine. A burning bridges action.

a) Declaration of martial law
b) Full mobilization
c) Use of weapons of mass destruction.

Aliens did it to study our reactions.

If the US did indeed warn Germany of just such a possibility (see story attached), it does weaken the case against the US significantly.

I would also note that though the US has this capability, and contrary to what conspiracy theorists will be assuming, something so obvious really isn't our modus operandi.

Well we came to the same suspects.

One could add the “burning bridges” logic to the EU too, but I do not think anyone in the EU would have the balls.
 
This is a clip of the Russian "Lend Lease" system in operation. The tank is a Russian T-80 (one of their most modern with a turbine engine) manned by its new Ukrainian crew towing away a Russian 152mm howitzer to be refurbished and forwarded to a Ukrainian artillery battalion.

As of this morning, again according to the independent Oryx analytical group, the Ukrainian Army has taken a total of 446 operational Russian tanks of all models.

 
It's not above or beneath any country to carry out clandestine operations for their own benefit but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the US would cause death and misery on the scale that a frozen Europe would bring. The US would lose ALL credibility on the world stage if it was proven that they caused thousands / tens of thousands to die from hypothermia and cripple several economies.

The cons far outweigh the pros for this to be a US operation...
 
Well we came to the same suspects.

One could add the “burning bridges” logic to the EU too, but I do not think anyone in the EU would have the balls.
The extraordinary thing to me is the complete lack of outrage by anyone on either side more than 24 hours after the event. OK Tucker was excited last night assuming the blasts forecast nuclear Armageddon and an environmental catastrophe (not so much - natural gas not oil), but he couldn't even get Tulsi Gabbard to agree with him.

Just a few days ago (Sep 20) Germany announced it's storage capacity was 90% full and would reach 95% by November (without additional Russian natural gas). There will be a challenge to get them topped back up before next winter, but Germany may be ok this winter.

 
The extraordinary thing to me is the complete lack of outrage by anyone on either side more than 24 hours after the event. OK Tucker was excited last night assuming the blasts forecast nuclear Armageddon and an environmental catastrophe (not so much - natural gas not oil), but he couldn't even get Tulsi Gabbard to agree with him.

Just a few days ago (Sep 20) Germany announced it's storage capacity was 90% full and would reach 95% by November (without additional Russian natural gas). There will be a challenge to get them topped back up before next winter, but Germany may be ok this winter.


Indeed, and no outrage on the markets either. A roughly 10% uptick but that was all.
 

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