Pistol Reccomendation?

[TTundra]

Most of match pistols will have a slide that is fitted inside the frame - "male system". Arguably the male type slide system makes better inherent accuracy. I am writing this, so when choosing the handgun, to take note of this. Today not many models, have this system. To understand what I am saying, I posted below a photo of the pistols slide back side, of p210. It is fitted inside the main frame. (same feature is in common CZ 75B)
I also posted below another system from 1911, where slide is fitted as female part on the frame.

I'd say this is potentially the case with stock guns, but any over the rails slide designed for match use is equal in its precision. Arguably the error will come from the shooter, not the pistol.

Its always been the debate. P210 or CZ styles has the ability to use longer rails to aid in precision and make narrower for carry, but the trade off argument is that in a defensive or high stress situation the shorter slide can impede racking the slide by over gripping. Practice always makes perfect either way. However, every once in a while I will overgrip a slide inside the rail during practice.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Lot of great advice on this thread. Like anything, define your needs/wants and objectives, then practice, practice, practice. Dry firing can be your best friend. In my former life I put a few gazzillion rounds through handguns for work and competition. My favorites will always be a 1911 in 45 acp or any Glock (prefer the long slide models for work and compacts for civilian carry). If I had to choose one or the other, it would be a Glock. They just work and are ready to go out of the box.

Having said that, when bumming around the woods now days, I normally carry an old model S&W M19 or an even older M17 K22. My Dad bought the M17 and put it in the crib with me the day I was born. It is hard to go wrong with an accurate 22 handgun.

Lots of great handguns out there. Enjoy and safe shooting!

 

[kevin masters]

The kimber mako 7 is a compact 9mm with crazy capacity and comes optic ready or optic installed.
This is not what I would recommend as a first pistot but it checks all your boxes. much of the
previous advise is spot on. but I do love my mako!!!

 

[freefall]

Does anybody even read the original all post past about # 4?
The guy wants a 9mm to target shoot. As I see it the Sig 210 seems to take the brownie. The rest of you with the "do you wanna match it with your carry gun" are barking mad. Ease off.

 

[mark-hunter]

I'm shooting from memory, but I would have thought there are far more match pistols with the slide outside the frame. I'm not saying one system is superior to the other, but the custom 1911's have ruled Bullseye for years.

Every gun can be accurized and customized.
1911 is extremely popular, if not the most popular handgun in the states. It is practically national icon. So even IPSC classic division is dedicated solely to 1911. Althoug in IPSC we talk about high capacity mags, but separate divison was created due to popularity of 1911, and its single stack mag.
But it doesnt mean, its the best choice for ipsc.

All major factories are producing 1911 clones, plus specialised workshops, etc
So, of course, accurised 1911 will be very present in bulls eye matches in the states.

On old continent, is sligthly diferent. We know that p210 arguably was most accurate service pistol in the world. To me this makes best platform to develop match pistol. And europeans did, just that.
But, 210 in popularity can not match a 1911. And both of them have developed to various sport variants.

Another point is, bulls eye pistol must be able to shoot one inch or smaller groups at 25 meters.
Many fine pistols of both types will be able to, and with that accuracy they are competitive to the highest level of match.
But to answer the question which pistol will make the smallest groups at 25 meters, it is impossible to tell.

 

[mark-hunter]

Tanfoglio xtreme gold match

Pardini GT9, 6 inch

 

[mark-hunter]

Smith & Wesson 52-2, caliber 38 special wad cutter (phased out)

Colt Gold Cup, 38 special wad cutter

 

[mark-hunter]

In America, 2 pistols stand out in bulls eye shooting (I think both of them are phased out). One of them is S&W 52 - 38 sp wc, the other colt gold cup 38 sp wc.
Both of them extremely accurate, and to maximise accuracy potential both of them were chambered for 38 special wad cutter cartridge, in order to compete on the national matches.

European answer to these, came from Switzerland in early 70ties.
SIG factory designed SIG Hamerli P240, on the platform developed on basis of P210 (most accurate service pistol). To beat everything else in the world, calibers chosen were revolver calibers with rimmed casing. And, Bullet chosen - wad cutter, of course
The parts for this pistol were produced in SIG (Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft ) and barrels were produced in Hamerli.
FInally made, Chambered in 38 special wad cutter, 32 S&W long wad cutter, and 22LR.
Produced from 1975 till 1990.
In caliber 38 sp wad cutter produced only from 1975, till 1979.
Barrel was made with smallest possible tollerances, and the reports came in with barrel bulging when used some of the factory ammo.
The factory, later stopped production of 38 special cal barrels, and issued a reccomendation that pistols in this caliber can be used with GECO factory ammo, 38 special wad cutter. The barrels in other two calibers continued in production.
(Personally I am not aware of any issue with 38 sp wc barrels, above is information collected from various sources)

With these 3 pistols Colt, S&W, Sig Hammerl 240), and their phasing out from production, ends the era of top ranking match pistols in revolver rimmed caliber, 38 special wad cutter. Those three were record breakers of their time, and even today. They still compete healthy, and keep getting medals, Why production of pistols in that chambering stopped globally, after the excellent accuray achieved with them - I really dont know, except that in case of S&W was worn out factory machines. Manufacturing cost for the pistols, is my next guess, and various 9mm, were close with accuracy to them, and easier to produce (???). Maybe.

In any case, purchasing one of those, 2nd hand, for the purpose of bulls eye shooting is good choice, even today.

To date, continues production of pistols in caliber 32 S&W long wad cutter, for example:
Pardini HP in 32 S&W long wad cutter. And the references I got, from national shooting team, is that this small pistol today is considered "the most accurate pistol in the world". End of quote.

Personally I prefer pistol to look like a pistol, and small pardini would not by my choice.
Prices and availability of ammo for high volume shooting, is also consideration, and 9 mm, still ranks high. Any of the pistols I posted earlier, will be good choice for accurate bulls eye shooting.

 

[Pavel U]

I see Alistair has got many good options to choose from
From my point of view:
- the winner of the original "list of demands" for the money would be CZ Shadow 2 - You can get Optics ready version too (MSRP 1,605)
- if You are new to handguns then follow the advice of dchamp and others: find an instructor, and I would also incline to begin with 22 lr.
And that brings me back again to Shadow 2: You can buy 22 lr conversion kit for a start. You can use it on the very same gun you would later shoot 9mm.

Maybe don't look for a perfect gun from the very beginning. Just get an instructor, borrow a gun you like or always wished to try and start shooting Then try another and another - You will figure out what do like and what You don't. Only then the "perfect gun quest" may begin.

I DO NOT believe You will end up with just one (hand)gun anyway ... like the rest of us, right?

"So .... shall we?"

 

[Opposite Pole]

To date, continues production of pistols in caliber 32 S&W long wad cutter, for example:
Pardini HP in 32 S&W long wad cutter. And the references I got, from national shooting team, is that this small pistol today is considered "the most accurate pistol in the world". End of quote.
View attachment 441684

Personally I prefer pistol to look like a pistol, and small pardini would not by my choice.

I shoot the Pardini and it is a very accurate and reliable gun. For anyone series about target shooting the gun has many advantages. Fully adjustable trigger and sights being one anatomical grip being another. Importantly you can get the gun with centre fire and rimfire conversions. It takes undoing one screw and about 15 seconds worth of work to swap between centre fire and rimfire. Same grip, trigger and sights. Being a series match tool it requires correct technique and I would urge anyone new to one handed shooting to get an experienced coach to teach them basics - correcting bad habits is difficult.

 

[Challer]

If you are new to guns generally, start with a 22, specifically Ruger Mk IV. Then move up to a SIG P226 Legion 9mm. If you must stray, a Beretta 92 LTT. CZ are great but you’ll need to get them upgraded to be in the same league. I am not a fan of any striker fired gun and recommend against them for anyone new to the sport. It’s all about the trigger. If you happen to be in DC metro, DM me.

 

[SRvet]

Hi Alastair. My experiences with pistols date back a long time when the UK government confiscated our pistols back in 1997. I owned and shot the Glock 17 a lot and liked it. I always found that when I brought the pistol up from a low ready that the front sight was always way higher than I wanted due to the grip angle. This was not the case with the Sig P220 that i coveted from afar and occasionally kidnapped from a friend. With the Sig the sights were almost always properly aligned. If I were doing things again then I would definitely look at this aspect of gun fit before purchasing. Saying that the G17 was an amazing tool. I don’t think I ever managed to cause a jam or have a malfunction, it was boringly reliable and definitely something I would feel confident would go to hell and back and still work. The Glock trigger was something that had to be learnt but wasn’t too bad, it almost became like shooting a two stage trigger in the end. I did change the sights from the white dot and fat white outline for some nicer Novak 3 dot ones.
The other must have is a revolver… my 6 inch S&W 686 taught me a lot but having a good 22LR is a great idea. My favourite was the S&W m41.

 

[Challer]

Hi Alastair. My experiences with pistols date back a long time when the UK government confiscated our pistols back in 1997. I owned and shot the Glock 17 a lot and liked it. I always found that when I brought the pistol up from a low ready that the front sight was always way higher than I wanted due to the grip angle. This was not the case with the Sig P220 that i coveted from afar and occasionally kidnapped from a friend. With the Sig the sights were almost always properly aligned. If I were doing things again then I would definitely look at this aspect of gun fit before purchasing. Saying that the G17 was an amazing tool. I don’t think I ever managed to cause a jam or have a malfunction, it was boringly reliable and definitely something I would feel confident would go to hell and back and still work. The Glock trigger was something that had to be learnt but wasn’t too bad, it almost became like shooting a two stage trigger in the end. I did change the sights from the white dot and fat white outline for some nicer Novak 3 dot ones.
The other must have is a revolver… my 6 inch S&W 686 taught me a lot but having a good 22LR is a great idea. My favourite was the S&W m41.

Once you have the 686, might as well have a 617. Both teach SA and DA trigger control

 

[Louis Toadvine]

I own a modern US-made SIG P210 Standard (i.e. not the Target edition) and it is by far the most accurate and best quality pistol I have ever owned. An incredibly accurate pistol straight out of the box with a super crisp trigger. I also love the way it looks--a bit more elegant than a 1911, but obviously some similarities in design. I chose the Standard version specifically because I prefer the grip design to the Target version (and because I am not a competitive shooter).

I believe SIG has already phased out production of the Standard model, which is too bad. I think uptake was a bit slow; there really isn't a market for the Standard pistol. It is more expensive than what most prefer to spend on a utilitarian carry/plinking pistol, has single stack mags (in an era where subcompacts like the Hellcat and P365 pack 12+ rounds), and those serious/competitive shooters would likely go with the Target version.

There were rumors of SIG putting out a P210 Carry version, but last I heard that was on hold or outright canceled. The carry pistol market is saturated and cutthroat, and introducing a competitor with a ticket price 50%-100% more than the usual suspects would've seriously thinned out potential buyers.

 

[Tanks]

Does anybody even read the original all post past about # 4?
The guy wants a 9mm to target shoot. As I see it the Sig 210 seems to take the brownie. The rest of you with the "do you wanna match it with your carry gun" are barking mad. Ease off.

He wants to compete. Some of the competition action sports have divisions that are CCW guns. Maybe if he had specified the type of competition from the start the advice would have been more targeted

Also, have you heard of "thread drift"?

 

[Alistair]

Maybe if he had specified the type of competition from the start the advice would have been more targeted

A fair point.

I'm probably thinking more a 'practical pistol' discipline than say 10m bullseye, so idpa or the like.

I do want to buy a dedicated gun for that though, so no considerations of carry related attributes such as size really.

As mentioned in the original post, I'm looking for a full size 9mm with a great trigger, good magazine capacity (15+ so double stack) and optics mounting capability.

Something like a Walther q5 match, Beretta 92x, cz shadow 2.

That clarify things?

Al

 

[freefall]

Salesman at our company recently bought a Shadow, I disremember #s, but he immediately sold several of his pistols in the same general niche claim it the CZ rendered them obsolete.

 

[dchamp]

As mentioned in the original post, I'm looking for a full size 9mm with a great trigger, good magazine capacity (15+ so double stack) and optics mounting capability.

That clarify things?

Al

Glock 17L or Model 34.....3.5# trigger, 9mmx19,17 round capacity. Very accurate and very good trigger.

 

[Tanks]

A fair point.

I'm probably thinking more a 'practical pistol' discipline than say 10m bullseye, so idpa or the like.

I do want to buy a dedicated gun for that though, so no considerations of carry related attributes such as size really.

As mentioned in the original post, I'm looking for a full size 9mm with a great trigger, good magazine capacity (15+ so double stack) and optics mounting capability.

Something like a Walther q5 match, Beretta 92x, cz shadow 2.

That clarify things?

Al

Of the three for action pistol games I'd recommend Walther Q5 Match with a slew of magazines (limited to 10 rounds in magazines for those games).

 

[JimP]

I'd wager that the vast majority of competition shooters started with a 22 Lr either a semi automatic or revolver.

They are a lot easier to master the fundamentals of shooting not to mention a lot cheaper to shoot when you are talking thousands of rounds to get those fundamentals down.