Opinions on targeting muzzle velocity - .404J and .375 H&H

[Nevada Mike]

I am beginning development of loads for these two rifles for use next year in SW Tanzania. My question is this...

In the .375 I have Nosler PT 260 grain, Woodleigh Weldcore 300 Gr. SN PP, and Woodleigh 300 gr. FMJ bullets. I plan on using the Nosler 260 PT for Sable and other larger antelope. Could also use the 300 SN PP Woodleighs. I owuld use the .375 as my medium bore and to back up my .404 if needed. Which is better and how fast should I push these bullets? I know many prefer the Swift AFs, but I do not have any and can't find them to buy.

The .404J is intended for buffalo. I plan on using Woodleigh 400 gr. SP RNs, and Woodleigh 400 gr. FMJs. I was thinking that MV should be around 2250 fps. But how fast should I push these bullets?

I do not see any point in increasing blast and recoil if not needed and think I should have a specific goal in mind when developing these loads.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Shootist43]

Nevada Mike, If you've got 400 Gr Woodleigh SP RN(s) for your 404 Jeffrey by all means use them. That is the bullet Von Gruff used to develop his accuracy load. 84 Gr. of H-4350 will give you 2300 FPS out of a 24 " barrel. This recipe has been posted QUITE OFTEN on AH and verified by a number of Jeffrey owners. Send BenKK a PM and see what he thinks about the Woodleigh Bullets for Buffalo. Or better yet send Woodleigh an email and ask them about performance of their bullets on Cape Buffalo.

 

[John458Lott]

Hi Mike, I also used the 300gr Woodleigh PP in the 375 in Africa for Cape Buffalo, Sable, Gemsbok, Waterbuck, Blue Wilderbeest & Eland all just needed 1 shot except for the Waterbuck which needed 2. The Woodleighs performed wonderfully and being an Aussie made product being where I come from all the better! IMHO keep things simple and keep the 260 Noslers for another hunt. There is already enough to bring especially if you are bringing 2 rifles already plus softs & solids for each. I was going to do the same as I had a fantastic load for the Woodleigh 270gr PP for PG and the 300gr for Buffalo but thankfully someone with more experience told me to just stick with the 300gr. Glad I did!

I also have a 404J but have not hunted with it yet. That's for the next African trip. I load mine with 81.0gr of H4350/AR2209 with the Woodleigh 400gr RN and FMJ it gets me 2225fps and excellent accuracy. I too am thinking of bringing 2 rifles on my next trip but probably a 30-06 or something like that.

 

[Rem700stw]

Do you have the Woodleigh reloading manual? It is a valuable resource if you are loading their bullets. Each Woodleigh has a velocity range listed and as long as you do not exceed the maximum recommended velocity they will perform admirably.

Keep your life simple and forsake all bullets lighter than 300 grains
in the 375 H&H for as long as you both shall live.

Do not get hung up on obtaining every last FPS. Find an accurate load and I guarantee you nothing you ever shoot will know your load is 50 FPS below max.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

One nice thing about Woodleighs is they have the recommended impact velocity printed on the box. That will help. 404 did most of its work around 2150 or so and will continue to work at that MV. As long as you keep it within the design specs of the bullet, a little faster is going to hit a bit harder. If the recoil doesn't bother you and it's accurate, go for it. If 2150 is accurate and more comfortable, there's no shame in it.

 

[WAB]

I made the mistake of taking multiple loads for my .375 on my first Safari. Never again! Load the 300’s and leave the 260’s at home!!!! Have a handful of 300 gr solids just in case.

I do not have a .404 but my chrono tells me that my Lott is delivering 500 grain pills at 2300 fps. My PH’s seem to think that 2300 is a manic number for DG. I can tell you for sure that it works in the Lott!

 

[AZDAVE]

With the 260's you could target 2650-2700, 300s in the 2500-2550

the 404 400's 2300 is what I shoot mine at

 

[IvW]

2500 for the 375 300gr
2300 was actually the famous 404 elephant load not 2150......

 

[Bert the Turtle]

2500 for the 375 300gr
2300 was actually the famous 404 elephant load not 2150......

Every reference I can find says otherwise. One in fact says the advertised velocity was from a 28 inch test barrel and 2050 was more likely the actual velocity. Where do you find 2300?

404 RIMLESS NITRO EXPRESS: Powder 60 grs. Smokeless; Bullet 400-gr. Metal-covered; Pressure 16 tons; M.V. 2,125; M.E. 4,020. Powder 70 grs. Smokeless; Bullet 300-gr. Metal-covered; Pressure 16 tons; M.V. 2,600; M.E. 4,500.

Taylor, John. African Rifles and Cartridges . Sportsman's Vintage Press. Kindle Edition.



In original cordite configuration the cartridge launched a 400-grain bullet at 2,125 fps from 28" proof barrels. In actual hunting rifle configuration that probably meant around 2,050 fps. Yet it worked.

an der Walt, Pierre. African Dangerous Game Cartridges (Kindle Locations 9296-9298). Cool Ideas. Kindle Edition.


The most successful of the three, and destined for fame as the definitive “elephant gun”, was Jeffery’s .404. At the time of its introduction it was ballistically identical to the very popular rimmed .450/400 cartridge giving 2150fps from a 22” barrel.

Ganyana. African Hunter Magazine Hunter's Guide to Classic African Cartridges (Hunter's Guide Series Book 1) . African Sporting Publications. Kindle Edition.

 

[375Fox]

Take a look at the Zimbabwe hunt report I just posted. The recovered bullets and explanations are on the last page of report. I was disappointed with the 300 gr woodleigh PP performance. I wouldn’t consider them on anything besides plains game after what I saw even if others have been successful with larger game. It was factory ammo (small ammo manufacturer) listed at 2520 on the box. My PH there said the woodleighs are better in larger slower calibers than 375.

 

[IvW]

Every reference I can find says otherwise. One in fact says the advertised velocity was from a 28 inch test barrel and 2050 was more likely the actual velocity. Where do you find 2300?

404 RIMLESS NITRO EXPRESS: Powder 60 grs. Smokeless; Bullet 400-gr. Metal-covered; Pressure 16 tons; M.V. 2,125; M.E. 4,020. Powder 70 grs. Smokeless; Bullet 300-gr. Metal-covered; Pressure 16 tons; M.V. 2,600; M.E. 4,500.

Taylor, John. African Rifles and Cartridges . Sportsman's Vintage Press. Kindle Edition.



In original cordite configuration the cartridge launched a 400-grain bullet at 2,125 fps from 28" proof barrels. In actual hunting rifle configuration that probably meant around 2,050 fps. Yet it worked.

an der Walt, Pierre. African Dangerous Game Cartridges (Kindle Locations 9296-9298). Cool Ideas. Kindle Edition.


The most successful of the three, and destined for fame as the definitive “elephant gun”, was Jeffery’s .404. At the time of its introduction it was ballistically identical to the very popular rimmed .450/400 cartridge giving 2150fps from a 22” barrel.

Ganyana. African Hunter Magazine Hunter's Guide to Classic African Cartridges (Hunter's Guide Series Book 1) . African Sporting Publications. Kindle Edition.

55gr of cordite gave just over 2000fps with the 400gr bullet.
60gr of cordite gave 2300fps same bullet. Kynoch.

 

[sestoppelman]

Every reference I can find says otherwise. One in fact says the advertised velocity was from a 28 inch test barrel and 2050 was more likely the actual velocity. Where do you find 2300?

404 RIMLESS NITRO EXPRESS: Powder 60 grs. Smokeless; Bullet 400-gr. Metal-covered; Pressure 16 tons; M.V. 2,125; M.E. 4,020. Powder 70 grs. Smokeless; Bullet 300-gr. Metal-covered; Pressure 16 tons; M.V. 2,600; M.E. 4,500.

Taylor, John. African Rifles and Cartridges . Sportsman's Vintage Press. Kindle Edition.



In original cordite configuration the cartridge launched a 400-grain bullet at 2,125 fps from 28" proof barrels. In actual hunting rifle configuration that probably meant around 2,050 fps. Yet it worked.

an der Walt, Pierre. African Dangerous Game Cartridges (Kindle Locations 9296-9298). Cool Ideas. Kindle Edition.


The most successful of the three, and destined for fame as the definitive “elephant gun”, was Jeffery’s .404. At the time of its introduction it was ballistically identical to the very popular rimmed .450/400 cartridge giving 2150fps from a 22” barrel.

Ganyana. African Hunter Magazine Hunter's Guide to Classic African Cartridges (Hunter's Guide Series Book 1) . African Sporting Publications. Kindle Edition.

Agree. Everything I have ever read showed 2150 or so to be the standard load. Thats not to say that other loads didnt exist, but 2150 was/is the baseline standard back then.

 

[IvW]

2150 was the first original load
2225 was the second Kynoch load soon to be followed by 2300.
Modern day loads are 2150 for a 450gr bullet and 2300-2350 for 400gr bullets easily achievable at still low pressures

 

[Nevada Mike]

2150 was the first original load
2225 was the second Kynoch load soon to be followed by 2300.
Modern day loads are 2150 for a 450gr bullet and 2300-2350 for 400gr bullets easily achievable at still low pressures

You're right... with Swift A Frames I am getting 2400+ over 80 Grains of N-150 in my rifle. A bit faster than most load data I can find with the same powder/charge weight. I can dial it back by 100 fps, tho'.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Read Kevin Robertson's Africa's Most Dangerous regarding diff bullet weights and loading of both. Tried the 260s for Son's gun on a combined Buff/PG hunt (where 300 SPs/Solids were planned for the DG.) As the 260s printed nowhere near the 300s, we abandoned ship on 'em and he used the 300s for everything. Re-sighting a gun mid-ship in a Safari might be a PIA (even if you have a cheat sheet of correction clicks or a boresighter that works at home, many places in Africa are north of a mile high in elevation, so that'll throw your cheat sheet out the window. Sight in on one of our hot summer days.)

 

[mdwest]

My 300gr 375 tsx load scoots along at 2450… I’ve been very happy with accuracy and terminal performance

 

[Nevada Mike]

Read Kevin Robertson's Africa's Most Dangerous regarding diff bullet weights and loading of both. Tried the 260s for Son's gun on a combined Buff/PG hunt (where 300 SPs/Solids were planned for the DG.) As the 260s printed nowhere near the 300s, we abandoned ship on 'em and he used the 300s for everything. Re-sighting a gun mid-ship in a Safari might be a PIA (even if you have a cheat sheet of correction clicks or a boresighter that works at home, many places in Africa are north of a mile high in elevation, so that'll throw your cheat sheet out the window. Sight in on one of our hot summer days.)

I have abandoned the idea of using the Nosler 260 PTs on this trip. Using only Woodleigh 300 PP SN in the .375 for plains game... and buff if my 404J has issues. It shouldn't, I've been wringing it out pretty well. Solids for the .375 available if needed

I live at 5000' in SE Arizona - plenty of hot days for testing ammo. The area that I am hunting in Tanzania is at about 3000' elevation - day temps around 90 - 95 F in September - October.