Noob with many questions here

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Canadanoob, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. JGRaider

    JGRaider AH Fanatic

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    The mountain zebra I ate tasted exceptionally good, just like a prime steak here in the US. I was quite surprised. The plains zebras are not so good.
     

  2. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    There are some Leopards that would not agree, but most Africans will back you up 100%.
     

  3. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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  4. Nyati

    Nyati AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Welcome to AH and good luck with your search.
     

  5. tap

    tap AH Enthusiast

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    i have a place in south africa in the mountains that is wilderness. we can do a full on back pack hunt if we want and the old fart that owns the place lets no one hunt in there. (we meaning me and my ph) theres some 60" kudu in there as well. you can also do a back pack type tent hunt for eland around the golden gate national park. as for hunting the open concession areas in africa........ uh, well this aint canada.

    you have a f'ing death wish! black bears and mountain lions arent aggressive. imagine a bull elephant in musk. or a crodile in the water ur getting a drink at. or a pissed hippo you didnt know about or lions that have no issue with eating you. oh, try and shoo off the local herd of cattle in the middle of the night that keep bumping your tent only to realize its a herd of wild buffalo and u nearly get stampeded!!!!!

    its wild enough in a high fence area. trust me. as everyone else said you wont even know ur in high fence. to be quite honest you will have more challenge in there than u ever will outside the fence. but hey. ur like me. ur from north america and free range is the only real hunting. i can assure you that after dozens of high fence hunts its the opposite. in north america open range gets lots of pressure and the animals are wild. high fence gets little pressure and the animals are tame. in open concession areas in africa "where poachers dont live which is hard to find" the animals are quite tame. cuz they rarely see hunans. u see an animal in a high fence area and all they say is screw you and they wont quit running until they hit europe!

    lets just say u have a lot to learn and africa is a different beast.

    oh. i forgot to mention that most free range areas have lots of poachers. ive been barrel to barrel with poachers before. on several occasions. usually im outnumbered 8 or 15 to 1. and their all armed with something. udually at least one guy has a gun. all have knives and make shift weapons.

    I can tell you this.

    if you want to do a tented wilderness hunt your a f'ing idiot. permanent tents are erected once an area has been deemed kinda safe and kinda clear of poachers and cleared of lots of dangerous crap. and you wanna go on a tent hunt in the wilderness in an area the outfitter has no clue about? normally they know where the hippos are, where the crocs hang at, where the poachers concentrate at etc. they set up camp in areas that are safe and provide good hunting???

    might wanna start planning on having a massive bill from global rescue or pick a casket now. the areas u will most likely hunt will be zim or moz and thats no place im going uncharted.

    sa is safe but theres few places in tht country for your excursion. but good luck. i would give names but you will hear from hundreds of guys and get hundreds of options. all i can say is good luck.
     

  6. Canadanoob

    Canadanoob AH Member

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    Thanks for your no b.s reply I can respect that and I'm the first to admit I have much to learn and am old enough to know you learn more from listening then talking.
    I am just at the very preliminary stages of planning and have much to consider.
     
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  7. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Tony always holds back the love. :ROFLMAO:
     

  8. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I have no idea where to start with this load of jibberish.

    A.) Ker and Downey should have told Ruark and Hemingway about their death wish evidently? I think not.

    B.) South Africa is safe but wilderness is a death wish? Tell that to the thousands of dead white farmers in RSA. I'll take my chances in Matebeleland instead.

    C.) if the mountain wilderness you speak of is completely remote in RSA and no one goes there, how do you know it has 60" kudus?

    D.) hundreds of people a year hunt Moz, Zim, Tanz and Zambia in tented fly camps. I don't believe global rescue is losing money on their $200 a year insurance even though it costs a half million dollars for an extraction. Hmmm. Could it be that it isn't as high risk as you portray?

    E.) Africa in all the wilderness areas is no more or less dangerous than Alaska or a lower 48 sheep hunt, probably less so. You might want to learn more about the risks before you assume American hunter's live in an easy, safe hunting universe.

    F.) poachers are cowards and capitalists. Attacking hunters draws unnecessary attention so they try to avoid doing it. They also carry crap guns, usually home made. Versus the PH, scout, client and tracker in a wilderness hunting party with premium rifles? They want nothing to do with a showdown. They could get killed, they will get caught. If it doesn't make sense it isn't true.

    Wouldn't it be better to say you can't supply what the man requested and move on? Instead you're saying high fence is the best, not high fence is stupid, and if you do a premium wilderness fly camp you're a reckless idiot. Come on, you can drive a bus through the hole in your logic!

    Since I'm magnanimous and ecumenical, I'll concede one point you were correct on inadvertently. Some game is more "wild" behind a fence. Namely, a high fence lion will surely try to kill you. A more docile and fearful wilderness lion would be my preferred company within half a mile.

    Single handedly the most disingenuous and misleading post of the month! Congrats!
     
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  9. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I just had to jump in with a few actual experiences:

    Last year's trip to a fly camp in the Zambezi valley. Leopard killed a baboon in camp. Crocs in front of my tent on the water. Hippos on the shore 50' away at night. Lion 1/4 mile away. Buffalo herd ran past the outskirts of our camp. An elephant loitered in our camp every night, breathed on me through the screen of my tent and watched us eat dinner another night.

    I had a .375 loaded but never once thought the need to touch that gun or have it ready. Fly camps are not a death wish.

    Dozens of clients and friends have hunted the valley for decades and no one has died. Worst accident was a drunk friend fell in a hippo pothole at night and broke his leg. He taped it up with duct tape and walked on it for two days and killed a buffalo anyway. No death wishes. No murders by poachers. No lions eating clients.

    Tracks across Africa filmed in that area. Most PHs in Zim have guided fly camps in the Valley and the descriptions of peril don't match what I've ever seen or heard. Same for Moz. Same for Zambia.

    Respect for nature is logical, fear of nature is not. The prior post was cultivating fear without facts to discourage a very honest, safe, regulated type of safari.
     

  10. siml

    siml AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Welcome @Canadanoob .

    @tap , no offence but that's a rather ridiculos reply. As for the eland around Golden Gate, I had over 50 000 acres next to it, spent years hunting eland there, back packed those mountains enough, don't know of any tented camp.

    On another point, I have had far more conflicts with armed poachers in South Africa than Mozambique, in fact have been shot at 3 times in KZN, but not once in Mozambique.
     

  11. tap

    tap AH Enthusiast

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    well i have yet to see a poacher in south africa but have had more than enough encounters in moz and have had many guns pointed at me in zim.

    in case u have no brain i never said they had tented camps. i said i can pack in my own tent and take it down and set it up at will. i guess uve bever seen an american tents. ours are wuite mobil. we arent in the business if carrying tented camps around with us hahahaha
     

  12. siml

    siml AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    @tap , you win, I guess that's why you such a legend. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
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  13. Canadanoob

    Canadanoob AH Member

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    In regards to your point E.
    It is true I know hunters who have killed bear and cougar in self defence and there are plenty of sketchy wolf story's I could relay.
    Hunting in grizzly country your constantly on high alert with small surges of adrenaline everytime you hear or see something until you verify what it is.
    But having zero experience with Africa beyond the extraordinary story's I have read it does sound like a more risky proposition.
    But what's life without some element of risk.
    The one constant world wide it seems is that the most dangerous predator are the ones on two legs.
    Honestly on of my bigger concerns is the potential heat as someone who is much more comfortable being out in -35c then +30c
    This has definitely been a very interesting thread.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
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  14. cls

    cls AH Elite

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    Well, I don't want to put words into tap's mouth but... I think what he is saying in his so eloquent way is that it might be worth while for a newbie to start small and work his way up. A lodge hunt in SA, Namibia or Mozambique may be the way to start. This will give you some idea of what to expect as far as logistics, planning, firearms and all the other things that go with hunting on the other side of the world.
    I'll just shut my yap now.
     

  15. Canadanoob

    Canadanoob AH Member

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    By
    By all means never feel you have to censor yourself for me I appreciate all input and have a thick skin.
    Like I said I'm here to listen and learn.
     

  16. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    That's certainly true. Unfortunately for some, there is a line out the door of "one timers" that go to Africa looking for uncharted wilderness, shoot concocted animals behind a high fence and never go back again. I find this particularly the case with Midwestern and Northern Border area Americans. Particularly intolerant of the scripted nature of some East Cape and Limpopo offerings.

    Back when I was doing my due diligence I found a very, very affordable safari in East Cape. They sent me the DVDs. They called and were very affable, caring people. They provided a list of no less than 200 references on their website so I almost booked just thinking "if so many clients are references, they must be awesome". I grew up in Wisconsin and the state is known for ethical, fair chase hunters. I decided to call a couple of WI references from that list. I then had to call 16 of them because it went from bad to worse. Not a single reference would recommend going back to Africa, they were ALL one and done thanks to a high fence in RSA. The thing that offended them was not service, or accommodations...it was high fence and the scripted nature of the hunting.

    Surely there are many fair chase, wild places to hunt in RSA but deciding to start "slow" by doing RSA at 80% of the price of a most assuredly wild hunt in a wilderness area of another southern African nation seems a bit crazy. I've never met someone that did a proper fly camp safari and then swore off Africa never to return. I cannot say the same for those that have done RSA.

    If you want the Lobster for $40.00 at dinner, it makes little sense that everyone in the restaurant shouts at you to settle for the shrimp plate for $34.95. The man wanted the lobster, yet everyone is trying to encourage him to settle for the shrimp. When the bill comes, the costs will seem indistinguishable from one another.

    Fly camp cost comparison in wilderness, 14 days:

    $27,000 plus airfare. 2:1 hunting. All inclusive.

    Leopard
    Eland Bull
    Kudu Bull
    Kudu Cow
    Klippspringer
    Giraffe
    Waterbuck Ram
    Bushpig
    Zebra
    4 Impala Ram
    4 Impala Doe
    4 Baboon
    7 Francolin
    4 Guinea Fowl
    9 Sandgrouse
    10 Doves

    And what would that cost behind a high fence in RSA using a reputable outfit on this website?

    Day fees $8,400
    Leopard $25,000
    Baboon (4) $800
    Bushpig $600
    Zebra $1200
    Klippy $1200
    Impala (4) $1800
    Impala doe (4) $400
    Kudu Bull $2500
    Kudu Cow $600
    Eland Bull $2500
    Waterbuck Bull $1800
    Giraffe $2800
    Birds $300

    It appears to be about $50,000. Lets assume RSA offers a 50% discount on special high fence clearance sale. $25,000. Still darned close to the price of a wilderness fly camp hunt.

    So the math doesn't make sense. The OP didn't want high fence. The safety risks of wilderness have been debunked as myth. The costs are not extraordinary.

    Conclusion: People try to persuade others to do RSA high fence because of ignorance, envy, or collusion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
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  17. cls

    cls AH Elite

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    Hey Rookhawk, sorry but I wasn't suggesting a high fenced hunt as there are a number of outfitters that provide open range hunts in all the countries I mentioned including South Africa. Being from Alberta my first concern on my first trip was that I didn't want a high fenced hunt and free range self sustaining populations of animals but I did want to be able to take my wife and not have issues taking my firearms as well as be able to travel there without some of the issues I have run into traveling to some of the out of the way locations. So I did my due diligence and found what I wanted. I think it is up to the hunter to check the boxes before he commits. If he doesn't do this and then is unhappy about the outcome of his safari it's not the outfitters fault. In this day and age we have a tendency to lay the blame on everyone else other than ourselves.
    Just saying
     
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  18. IvW

    IvW AH Legend

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    This is the worst post I have had the displeasure of reading since I joined AH. Very misleading.
    My suggestion would be to ignore it.

    I hunt once or twice a season by camping in the bush in SA(Kalahari and Limpopo) and it is one of the most enjoyable hunting experiences you can have.
     
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  19. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    @IvW please elaborate on your enjoyable wild experiences for the benefit of the Original Post. I'm sure he'd like to hear about all the options that meet his requirements and the rest of would enjoy listening in.
     

  20. enysse

    enysse AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Welcome to AH! If you do enough research you will find a good hunt!
     
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