Mine or Theirs?

JPmbogo

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It seems that hopefully this Covid mess is slowly easing. Consequently, if we can get to the point with no airline mask requirements, I will seriously consider one last African hunt (been twice, and am smiling at 76). Only want a couple of buff. All that said, here's my thread discussion. I will probably take the WR. She deserves one last hunt - I guess like me. However, I keep hearing horror stories about traveling with guns and would hate to lose her. Therefore, the thought crosses my mind about making arrangements to use PH client rifles, assuming they have them available. Now, before anyone gets too serious about responding, I am throwing this out for, shall we say a philosophical discussion only. I am sure the Westley will get the job.
 
It seems that hopefully this Covid mess is slowly easing. Consequently, if we can get to the point with no airline mask requirements, I will seriously consider one last African hunt (been twice, and am smiling at 76). Only want a couple of buff. All that said, here's my thread discussion. I will probably take the WR. She deserves one last hunt - I guess like me. However, I keep hearing horror stories about traveling with guns and would hate to lose her. Therefore, the thought crosses my mind about making arrangements to use PH client rifles, assuming they have them available. Now, before anyone gets too serious about responding, I am throwing this out for, shall we say a philosophical discussion only. I am sure the Westley will get the job.
Airline and travel restrictions may ease, but you still run the risk of some country changing the pandemic rules and you getting stuck there.
 
JP,

Interesting problem. Can we say that for the purposes of this discussion, you are going in the next 4-6 months? If we can, then I would speak with my outfitter/PH and find out what they personally are seeing. Stories are great, but it's always, "I heard of a guy...". So, unless I had a couple of legitimate reports, I would gauge my actions appropriately.

I would also - as you just did, query the AH forum. Always lots of info here.

Let's also assume people are having problems traveling with firearms. Is it at every stop/layover or just certain routes? What are the circumstances? Is it possible to pick a different travel itinerary?

What's your threshold for risk? For me, it would have to be less than 30%. Greater than that and I would either use a client rifle, or find another location/hunt/species.
 
I’ve been on 10 trips to Africa, most recently October 21. My guns have never been lost or delayed. I had my bags delayed on one trip 3 days. I nearly got stuck in South Africa in March 2020 while hunting. I wish the stories of “trouble” traveling with firearms would go away. Use a travel agent, have your paperwork in order with multiple copies, get a pre approved permit if possible. Traveling and hunting with my own firearms is important to me. I’ve never had an issue I couldn’t get worked out.
 
Fly business class in a reputable airline such as Emirates or Qatar. No need to worry about the mask except during movement throughout the cabin.

They take really good care of firearms.

At Zim they were unloaded at customs, on the way back, at LAX, my luggage and firearms were already on a cart and had to show id to claim them from an agent.
 
Fly business class in a reputable airline such as Emirates or Qatar. No need to worry about the mask except during movement throughout the cabin.

They take really good care of firearms.

At Zim they were unloaded at customs, on the way back, at LAX, my luggage and firearms were already on a cart and had to show id to claim them from an agent.
Agreed. Plan to fly Qatar from Seattle to wherever we decide to hunt. Business or First.
 
Airline and travel restrictions may ease, but you still run the risk of some country changing the pandemic rules and you getting stuck there.
And also the sky could fall, and we'd be crushed.

Many, many of us hunted in Africa last year and no one got stuck due to a country changing pandemic rules.

And if it were to happen all that would mean is one would just book another hunt, I was ready for that ;).

Now, if one were to get a positive Covid test prior to coming home, yeah that could delay things. However, I'd rather live my life in full rather than restrict it with "might happens".

However, no wild boar or bear hunts in Ukraine for me this year ;).

I am wheels up for overseas in 26 days, less concerned than I was at SCI show a few weeks ago. :unsure:
 
And also the sky could fall, and we'd be crushed.

Many, many of us hunted in Africa last year and no one got stuck due to a country changing pandemic rules.

And if it were to happen all that would mean is one would just book another hunt, I was ready for that ;).

Now, if one were to get a positive Covid test prior to coming home, yeah that could delay things. However, I'd rather live my life in full rather than restrict it with "might happens".

However, no wild boar or bear hunts in Ukraine for me this year ;).

I am wheels up for overseas in 26 days, less concerned than I was at SCI show a few weeks ago. :unsure:

This says what I was going to say, but better.

Don't let a bunch of people hiding under their couches keep you living the shit out of life. I went last year, I'm going this year, and God willing, I will be going every year for a long time.

Book it and have a fantastic time.
 
Agreed. Plan to fly Qatar from Seattle to wherever we decide to hunt. Business or First.
Well, if it's business class on Qatar you'll most likely have to take out a loan for the ticket(s)! I was quoted $8k for business class last November when I subsequently booked economy for my PG hunt this June. Maybe it was just that flight or maybe I was unlucky, but I've heard both their and other airlines have raised ticket prices for first/business class. I'm glad I'm going this year!
 
Agreed - Sure as hell, ain't leaving next week!
I‘m not exactly a daredevil. I sure don’t want to get stuck overseas. But I traveled to Zimbabwe last September and had zero problems. We’ll, except for getting arrested at the Harare airport for not wearing a mask OUTSIDE the terminal. That was actually @jeff 505’s fault. He has shifty eyes and attracts police scrutiny. Cost us both $20 American. Just go already!
 
I hunted Zambia in August with my Rigby, and Austria in October with the outfitter's Mauser. I always take my own rifle to Africa, never had an issue, and none of them are a throw away firearm. Had I tested positive in Austria, I would have spent a few lovely days in Vienna. Had it happened in Zambia, @spike.t and I would likely have been in more danger of needing gin detox than COVID treatment.

One other thing, I turn 70 this year. None of us are getting out of here alive. Not one of us. I firmly believe we need to embrace fully whatever opportunity and time we have left —— preferably with a rifle we love.
 
Wife and I just got back from 2 weeks in Tanzania. First time to Africa, not hunting (Duh!), just a vacation and photo safari.

Flew Delta/KLM business (First) class. They were very cool about masks and did not hassle us, funny how long takes to drink a bottle of water. Only 1 couple out of our group had their bags delayed by 2 days, not in Africa, but they flew through New York which is always a mess.

Flew into Kilimanjaro airport in Arusha. Biggest hassle was just bureaucracy in clearing customs & getting covid test. more patience required due to inefficient staff than hassle. Very seldom did we see a mask in public.

People were great, lodges fantastic, and first time seeing African PG & Dangerous game up close was amazing.

Don't let fear limit your ability to live the best life you can!
 
It seems that hopefully this Covid mess is slowly easing. Consequently, if we can get to the point with no airline mask requirements, I will seriously consider one last African hunt (been twice, and am smiling at 76). Only want a couple of buff. All that said, here's my thread discussion. I will probably take the WR. She deserves one last hunt - I guess like me. However, I keep hearing horror stories about traveling with guns and would hate to lose her. Therefore, the thought crosses my mind about making arrangements to use PH client rifles, assuming they have them available. Now, before anyone gets too serious about responding, I am throwing this out for, shall we say a philosophical discussion only. I am sure the Westley will get the job.

@JPmbogo the question is more nuanced than “yours or theirs”.

I know that “yours” = not trash. High quality, reliable, well serviced rifles.

The problem comes in when we discuss “theirs”. Very few PHs client rifles meet the standards of an American safari hunter. Most PHs do not really know how to service weapons, or look after them. In many countries, you can count the amateur gunsmiths on one hand and the odds that any minor malady ever reached them before it became a major malady is more likely than not.

Certainly, there are exceptions to this rule, but you’d need to know a lot about them. My first PH assured me that his rifles were up to snuff and when I got there, I honestly would have pulled his license if I could have. Broken stock, ammo topped-off so many times the bullets spilled their powder in the action, zero bluing remaining on the whole gun, hadn’t cleaned it in a decade. His “client rifle” I sh&t you not was some 30-06 Remington of his grandfathers that preceded the model 700 and again, zero exaggeration, the trigger pull was about 15lbs. It also featured a low comb stock, 1.5” tall aluminum rings, a Tasco 4x fixed that had the seals blown, and the top of the rings had iron sights on them! Just an extreme example of how bad things can be.

As to you traveling with your own guns, it depends where you’re going and who you’re flying. I just went to TSA for a fresh 4457 earlier this week. I then applied directly myself with emirates for my rifle permission to fly permits, they were approved 4 hours later via email. (They used to say 30 days, now they say 3 days…but still, 4 hours is awesome) The only remaining rifle permit I need is Shall-Issue upon entry into Zimbabwe.

If you’re flying from USA via Emirates to Zim, i‘d say you’re crazy not to bring the guns you love and trust Since doing your own permits is so darned easy.

If you’re flying elsewhere using another carrier, it all depends.
 
Another piece of advice. Use an experienced safari travel agent to handle the airline paperwork. I’ve used TWG and Gracy. Both made traveling with guns easy. DIY at your own risk.

To the contrary, you might not want to use an experienced travel agent whatsoever. A few reasons:

A.) They won’t be getting your 4457 for you. You have to do that yourself.
B.) They do not file for some airlines. For example, Emirates is self-service and you must log in using your information.
C.) Countries like Zimbabwe, you fill out your own permit paperwork and you get your permit at the port of entry…your travel agent doesn’t do that for you.

So in the above example, zero benefit provided by a travel agent.

I’ve used one of the travel agents advertised on this site twice for Africa. In one instance, they gave me wholly incorrect advice and my rifles were missing for 3 days. They didn’t sort it out, a bribe of $500 sorted out their recovery. (The travel agent told me the guns would check through, they did not.)

Many of the things people believe you will get from the travel agent are actually not included and are instead provided by Henry at riflepermits.com . If you need help with SAPS, a meet and greet, or counter to counter assistance, It’s Henry’s team that does that for a fee. If you need guns secured for an overnight in Jo’Burg at Afton House or elsewhere, it’s AFton House or Henry’s team that sorts out their secure storage overnight.

Other non-value-adds of travel agents include:

1.) You pay a higher price for the fares than booking direct With many carriers
2.) You pay a service charge for the travel agent
3.) Using miles for upgrades is either the same or harder
4.) Supersaver fares are not always presented to the travel agencies, including signficant Discounts on biz class fares. I bought my biz class tickets for as much as a $1000 cheaper via sales and coupon codes on the airline website the travel agent could not get.
5.) The illusion of the single ticket. I was told by an advertiser on this site that in exchange for the $700 more I paid to use their agency, all my flights would be on a single ticket and in so doing, the prevailing carrier’s rules would apply, and I would not need to check my guns in and out multiple times. It was not true. The gate attendant swore my guns were aboard as well….lost several days of hunting with my guns. No refund of the $700 overcharge paid For bad advice.

Where you might want or need a travel agent is when you wish to play with fire. Flying through Europe. Laying over in Frankfurt/London/Amsterdam, then on to a sanctioned African nation…yeah, that could go pear shape very quickly. But for USA to Africa single carrier flights that begin in the USA and end in Zim or Jo’Burg RSA? Not a believer.
 
I went to Botswana last year on Qatar. Going to Zambia this year on Qatar. Going to Tanzania next year. No problems with rifles. Use Gracy Travel and they will send you a packet with everything you need to know and they will submit rifle paperwork to Qatar. No worries. Easy.
 
Well……I traveled to Zim on Emirates in Sept. I did have to get my own 4457 form certified by US Customs before filing the Emirates forms. However Gracy took my information and completed the Emirates paperwork. When I arrived at check in, the counter folks were waiting for me and everything went super smooth.

They handled my original arrangements and multiple re-bookings (thanks to the COVID pandemic) for a few hundred bucks. I am fully satisfied with the service I received. Your results may vary.

I have seen a number of posts on this forum from people who handled it all themselves and had major problems due to running afoul of the airline paperwork and process.
 
Well, if it's business class on Qatar you'll most likely have to take out a loan for the ticket(s)! I was quoted $8k for business class last November when I subsequently booked economy for my PG hunt this June....
I just got my Qatar tickets. $5,328 (equivalent miles) for business for LAX to Harare and then Harare to Lusaka and 10 days later Lusaka to LAX.

Interesting thing is when I wanted to check that route out their website would not allow it saying there was a problem. Travel Express sorted it out for me.

Now, I know one thing that adds thousands of dollars is to use a US airline (e.g. American) to go to an airport that Qatar flies from flying business. US airlines will charge you thousands for a 2 hour flight for business if connecting.

B.) They do not file for some airlines. For example, Emirates is self-service and you must log in using your information.

I filled Emirates paperwork last year and emailed it to Travel Express. Some time later I got the approval paperwork emailed back to me. So, rules might have changed. Or they logged in for me using the reservation code and last name and took care of the paperwork.

The service fee is well worth it, and it is less than a third of the $700 quoted by @rookhawk . Any time I hire a service I ask one question to myself. Is doing the same thing myself worth my time? The most precious resource I have at this point in my life is time. So, tedious tasks I farm out.

Another advantage is that the travel agent can do various combinations for you. I am going Qatar business because taking the same itinerary with Emirates was $1,700 per person more.
 

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