IMPORTANT: Firearms Export Alert – Use of Form 4457 for Temporary Firearms Export

[Fred Gunner]

Here we go again: ??? Member Alert 11/18/2019 INTERNATIONAL

All SCI members who plan to travel with their firearms outside of the U.S. should be aware that there has been some recent confusion about U.S. Customs and Border Patrol’s (CBP) willingness to accept Form 4457 for the temporary export of firearms. Although the CBP website continues to state that CBP will accept Form 4457 for temporary export and re-import of firearms/ammunition, the website hosted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) states that Form 4457 may no longer be used for that purpose. https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq#wcm-survey-target-id

SCI has heard reports that CBP officials at some ports are refusing to accept Form 4457 when hunters/shooters attempt to use them upon returning with their firearms/ammunition to the United States.

https://www.safariclub.org/blog/firearms-export-alert-use-form-4457-temporary-firearms-export

https://www.ice.gov/cpi/quiz

If providing language directly from the CBP website does not suffice, SCI members are advised by CBP to request to talk to the agent’s supervisor and if that is insufficient to immediately contact CBP Program Manager, David Garcia, whose telephone number is 202-344-3277. If Mr. Garcia does not answer his phone, callers are instructed to contact him by email at david.uscs.garcia@cbp.dhs.gov.

SCI members should also be aware that the CBP has posted a new, downloadable Form 4457 on their website with an expiration date of 9/30/2022. For those who have encountered problems abroad with using a Form 4457 with no expiration date or with an expired expiration date, this new form may alleviate those obstacles.

In 2015, SCI, together with several other hunting and recreational shooting organizations, fought CBP’s efforts to require those traveling with firearms/ammunition to use AESDirect, an electronic registration system. In response, CBP agreed to suspend their plans to abandon the use of Form 4457. Last year, CBP proposed new regulations concerning the export of firearms and SCI emphatically commented in support of the continued use of Form 4457 and in opposition to conversion to the AESDirect system.

SCI will continue to work, together with other hunting and recreational shooting organizations, to advocate for the suspension of the electronic registration system requirement and continued utilization of Form 4457.

 

[One Day...]

Thanks for posting Fred Gunner. Very useful.

 

[Fred Gunner]

New CBP Form 4457 with 2022 expiration date

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/CBP Form 4457.pdf

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Great info especially this link:

https://www.ice.gov/cpi/quiz

@AfricaHunting.com, until the situation changes with the U.S. government, which I'm sure it will, I think this should be a sticky.

 

[edward]

what is saps now excepting,thats what counts.they are the ones that wanted current dates on the 4457s.looks like somebody is trying to prevent us from transporting our firearms out of the country and back.more bull shit.

 

[One Day...]

Notice here under: "Anyone who falls into this category MUST file the electronic export information in AESDirect. Prior to departing the U.S., you MUST verbally declare the items to U.S. Customs and Border Protection and provide confirmation that the electronic export information was submitted into AESDirect."

Just another way to get to one of the antis' holy grails: national registration of firearms...

https://www.ice.gov/cpi/quiz

By the way, if you thought that CBP is not registering your rifles when you come back from Africa, thing again.
In 2018 I took my .340 Wby and .470 NE.
In 2019 I took my .340 Wby and my .275 Wby.
When I came back to JFK in NY in 2019, the CBP agent at the computer screen read to the one checking the serial numbers on my rifles the serial number for my .470 NE even though it was not listed on my 2019 CBP 4457 and the rifle was at home in my safe. How do you figure he knew the serial number for a rifle I took to Africa last year ???
Only explanation: whenever we use a CBP 4457 and come back in the US, CBP registers the firearms...

 

[Fred Gunner]

When I came back to JFK in NY in 2019

Then you had to have the NYPD Port Authority Police Check your Firearm(s) again and write down the serial numbers a second time? No?

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

@AfricaHunting.com, until the situation changes with the U.S. government, which I'm sure it will, I think this should be a sticky.

 

[MMAL]

Then you had to have the NYPD Port Authority Police Check your Firearm(s) again and write down the serial numbers a second time? No?

I am a New Yorker and I have never had to deal with the NYPD when flying into New York, only when checking in. Multiple guns both domestic and foreign travel. Just an FYI. Thanks for posting, got the same email. I guess it is new 4457's for me.

 

[One Day...]

Then you had to have the NYPD Port Authority Police Check your Firearm(s) again and write down the serial numbers a second time? No?

Yes Fred. In both 2018 and in 2019 I flew Phoenix to New York (JFK) to Johannesburg to East London, and the processes in the US were:

1. Check the firearms with Jet Blue/South African Airways in Phoenix at their counter, then walk to TSA in Phoenix for them to check them again. The walk from the Jet Blue counter to the TSA room was escorted by a Jet Blue agent but no police officer.
2. In 2018 Jet Blue checked the rifles in Phoenix all the way to Johannesburg. I did not handle them in JFK on my way to Africa.
3. In 2019 Jet Blue refused to check the rifles in Phoenix all the way to Johannesburg. They only checked them to New York. I retrieved the rifles in JFK and had to check them with South African Airways for the Johannesburg flight. The walk from the luggage carousel to the South African Airways counter was not escorted by anyone. The walk from the Jet Blue counter to the TSA room was escorted by several police officers, one of whom noted by hand in his personal scrapbook the serial numbers.
4. In both 2018 and 2019, on the return flights, CBP released the rifles to me from the Johannesburg flight at their office in the JFK luggage hall, and apparently registered them. No escort by anyone to walk from CBP to the Jet Blue counter to check the rifles on the Phoenix flight. The walk from the Jet Blue counter to the TSA room was escorted by police officers, one of whom noted by hand in a personal scrapbook the serial numbers.

I do not know if the handwritten note of the serial numbers the police officers make in their personal scrapbook is actually entered later in a computerized database. If memory serves (?) they note each time the passport number as well as the serial numbers, so it is technically possible they do it, but it seems (?) that the officers' personal scrapbook would not be the appropriate form if there was an intent to later input that form in a computer. I just do not know...

From a security perspective, their is an obvious glaring hole in the Port Authority police system in JFK. There are 3 cops with you between airline counter and TSA room; but there is no police escort from the curb to the airline counter; or from CBP to the airline counter; or from the luggage carousel to the airline counter or the curb. Go figure...

 

[Beretta391]

Just got back from Romania and Hungary Roe deer hunting in October . Went DFW-Philadelphia-Budapest. Heard about the ITN # on another forum. Called Patrick at TWG, he got ahold of Customs at DFW and got us our #. When we left DFW and came back thru Philadelphia nobody asked for it. They only wanted to see our 4457’s that we had gotten about 2 months before. The customs officer in Philadelphia thanked us for having all our paperwork. Again only looked at 4457’s. We had no problems at DFW-Philadelphia or Budapest airport. We flew American Airlines. Randy

 

[Fred Gunner]

There are 3 cops with you between airline counter and TSA room

I've done the JFK to SA to Namibia this year and 2018...The extra checks First CBP then NYPD then TSA on the return home was just so much B.S. I had to shake my head...The up side with the NYPD escort you do go to the head of the line at every stop. I gave them my Justice Dept. Credentials for ID and that helped.

 

[JMM]

I recently flew to Namibia via DFW/Doha. I was in the business class lounge when I heard my name over the terminal loudspeaker to report to a certain gate. I went and there were 2 Homeland Security officers waiting for me. They wanted to know where I had been, since they had been to the Qatar lounge and the front desk person did not have a record of me. I told them I had been there the whole time and had just heard my name called. They wanted to see my outfitter invitation and 4457s. Went into great detail and gave me paperwork regarding the new electronic 4457s and spent the most time telling me what trouble I would be in if I left a weapon there. Very strange and have not heard of anyone else having this issue.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Notice here under: "Anyone who falls into this category MUST file the electronic export information in AESDirect. Prior to departing the U.S., you MUST verbally declare the items to U.S. Customs and Border Protection and provide confirmation that the electronic export information was submitted into AESDirect."

Just another way to get to one of the antis' holy grails: national registration of firearms...

https://www.ice.gov/cpi/quiz

View attachment 314721

By the way, if you thought that CBP is not registering your rifles when you come back from Africa, thing again.
In 2018 I took my .340 Wby and .470 NE.
In 2019 I took my .340 Wby and my .275 Wby.
When I came back to JFK in NY in 2019, the CBP agent at the computer screen read to the one checking the serial numbers on my rifles the serial number for my .470 NE even though it was not listed on my 2019 CBP 4457 and the rifle was at home in my safe. How do you figure he knew the serial number for a rifle I took to Africa last year ???
Only explanation: whenever we use a CBP 4457 and come back in the US, CBP registers the firearms...

The same happened to me arriving at LAX in 2013. CBP officer somehow “guessed” that neither rifle had been exported before and asked me to confirm.

 

[BnC 04]

Soooo the take away here is to have the newest 4457's signed off, anyone planning on obtaining this ITN# for future travel?
We have a few months left and don't want to be caught with my pants down over something small.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Soooo the take away here is to have the newest 4457's signed off, anyone planning on obtaining this ITN# for future travel?
We have a few months left and don't want to be caught with my pants down over something small.

If you do the quiz, I’m guessing you’ll see you only need the 4457.

 

[One Day...]

If you do the quiz, I’m guessing you’ll see you only need the 4457.

Not correct I am afraid Phil.
If you do the quiz you will see the answer (see my previous post with screen pic of the quizz, the answer is in the right column):
#1 an export license is not required
#2 you "MUST file the electronic export information in AESDirect"
#3 "Prior to departing the U.S., you MUST verbally declare the items to U.S. Customs and Border Protection and provide confirmation that the electronic export information was submitted into AESDirect."

This is IN ADDITION to the CBP form 4457.

The confirmation is the ITN (Internal Transaction Number). "ITN is an Automated Export System (AES) generated number assigned to a shipment confirming that the EEI was accepted and is on file in the AESa filing number" (http://www.tradecomplianceinstitute.org/p_show_faq_answers.php?id=417)

At least this is the way I understand it...

Apparently filing the electronic export information in AESDirect is done on line and I would 'assume' (we all know how to spell it) that you get a filing confirmation ITN immediately on line.

Soooo the take away here is to have the newest 4457's signed off, anyone planning on obtaining this ITN# for future travel? We have a few months left and don't want to be caught with my pants down over something small.

Yes Nathan, for my September 2020 safari, I intend to get one more annual iteration of the 4457 (at least this one will be good until Sept 2022) AND I intend to file on line and get the ITN.
Like you, I just do not want to run the risk of being stuck in an airport for a day at CBP on my way out, loosing a day's hunt, or on my way in, fighting to keep my rifles, and second since CBP registers the rifles anyway upon return (see my earlier post), entering them one more time in Uncle Sam's database is not going to change much...

 

[johnnyblues]

In June I departed JFK as I’ve done numerous times in 30 plus years of hunting. As I’ve said many times I have never had any issues. Port authority police are called by the ticket agent, they look at my ID write down my information, lead me to TSA they open the case swipe the gun and off I’ve gone with lots of curiosity from port authority police about my upcoming adventure. Coming back the guns are at the customs office they call my name I show them my 4457 forms they check it to match what’s in the case and off I go..

 

[WAB]

4457’s worked fine ATL-JoBurg and return in August. It sounds like the new system is designed to keep us from leaving rifles over there.

 

[One Day...]

I agree with johnnyblues, Red Leg, WAB, etc. None of this seems terribly complicated nor constraining, and CBP, TSA and police officers have always been very courteous to me.

But it certainly results in your rifles being registered by federal agencies... about which some may care, and some may not care...