I need a "Use Enough Gun" Gun. Suggestions?

[Azklmsr]

Howdy Gents/Ladies,

I'm set for my 1st safari next June. Dieter Prinsloo at Mattanjasafaris has graciously agreed to teach me to hunt DG along with a few others in Limpopo next year, placing him in same courageous as the fellow that taught me to fly some 15 years ago. I'm pursuing a Buff and some plains game and will likely get talked into a hippo. I've picked up a 375 H&H in a Model 70 that is shooting 1-hole groups for me with heavy loads.

Dieter is working with me to plan a 2027 Zim hunt for Trophy Elephant, Buff, and a Leopard. While he as assured me the 375 will do the job, I'm considering a power upgrade and would love experienced input. On my list are pushing the 375 to 375 WBY. I cannot find a person that has actually done that that speaks negatively. Plenty that speculate, but none with experience. Next on the list would be a 416. I really like both the Ruger and CZ in 416 Rigby. Terrific classic. A 416 Rem on a model 70 makes more sense of course. If brass were available, the 416 Ruger would be in the discussion mix. I do not shoot factory rounds in any of my guns. Any experience with 416 vs 458 win performance on Elephant? love to hear real world experiences. Same with 375 WBY.

I'm not generally recoil sensitive with 20 round bench sessions with the 375 being a norm. That said, I don't want to go too big and become the guy that flinches.

Looking forward to thoughts and thanks for the input

Kurt

 

[375Fox]

I’d recommend you try a 416 or 458 before you buy. I have no problem shooting a 375 H&H but 416 and 458 are really stepping into another recoil class to me, but also a different cartridge class for big game. 375 H&H to 375 Weatherby isn’t adding any value. 416 or 458 is for elephant if you can handle the recoil. Even though you said you don’t shoot factory rounds in your rifles you don’t know what situation may come up. Taking standard cartridges to Africa gives you a lot of flexibility if something were to happen to your ammo.

 

[colorado]

Howdy Gents/Ladies,

I'm set for my 1st safari next June. Dieter Prinsloo at Mattanjasafaris has graciously agreed to teach me to hunt DG along with a few others in Limpopo next year, placing him in same courageous as the fellow that taught me to fly some 15 years ago. I'm pursuing a Buff and some plains game and will likely get talked into a hippo. I've picked up a 375 H&H in a Model 70 that is shooting 1-hole groups for me with heavy loads.

Dieter is working with me to plan a 2027 Zim hunt for Trophy Elephant, Buff, and a Leopard. While he as assured me the 375 will do the job, I'm considering a power upgrade and would love experienced input. On my list are pushing the 375 to 375 WBY. I cannot find a person that has actually done that that speaks negatively. Plenty that speculate, but none with experience. Next on the list would be a 416. I really like both the Ruger and CZ in 416 Rigby. Terrific classic. A 416 Rem on a model 70 makes more sense of course. If brass were available, the 416 Ruger would be in the discussion mix. I do not shoot factory rounds in any of my guns. Any experience with 416 vs 458 win performance on Elephant? love to hear real world experiences. Same with 375 WBY.

I'm not generally recoil sensitive with 20 round bench sessions with the 375 being a norm. That said, I don't want to go too big and become the guy that flinches.

Looking forward to thoughts and thanks for the input

Kurt

Your model 70 in 375 H&H sounds like a great gun. I would stick with it.

 

[uplander01]

Stick with what you have and let it rip,...if determined to go bigger get a 416 of any designation, it will hit a little harder but won't be a real big adjustment from a shooting standpoint. I personally like the 416 rigby, but you could just get another model 70 in 416 rem, seems most sensible and guns would feel the "same"

 

[Mountaineer]

I have spent a lot of time learning to shoot a 458 win mag. Probably would not have had I only shoot full power loads. Being a reloader I shoot mostly light loads. I suggest finding a friend with a 458 and shoot several full power loads before you buy. Sounds like you have a 375 H&H that you shoot very well.

 

[SafariCurious]

I like big boomsticks and if you want an excuse for something bigger than the .375 you already have, go for it.

But you certainly do NOT need anything bigger than the .375

 

[Green Chile]

Hey Kurt. Welcome to the AH DG group hunt, which I will be hosting with Dieter. I'm excited to have you join us. The 375 will be perfect for that hunt. I will have my 416 Rigby with me that week and you are welcome to handle it. There is much we could discuss and I have used it a lot on DG and PG also. If you want to bump up from the 375, the 416 is the next most logical step. The Wby is not seen nearly as much in Africa and that much velocity is actually counter-productive. Recoil wise, it's about 2-3 steps up from the 375 H&H. 416 Rigby is one step up and you will get exits on most shots. Any more energy is wasted on beating up the shooter.

 

[Newboomer]

Hey Kurt. Welcome to the AH DG group hunt, which I will be hosting with Dieter. I'm excited to have you join us. The 375 will be perfect for that hunt. I will have my 416 Rigby with me that week and you are welcome to handle it. There is much we could discuss and I have used it a lot on DG and PG also. If you want to bump up from the 375, the 416 is the next most logical step. The Wby is not seen nearly as much in Africa and that much velocity is actually counter-productive. Recoil wise, it's about 2-3 steps up from the 375 H&H. 416 Rigby is one step up and you will get exits on most shots. Any more energy is wasted on beating up the shooter.

375HH with 235g for pg and 300-350g for dg. You don't need anything bigger and you won't gain much except recoil. 235g will take you out to around 300 yds which is far enough. The name of the game is stalk as close as you can get.

 

[Azklmsr]

Hey Kurt. Welcome to the AH DG group hunt, which I will be hosting with Dieter. I'm excited to have you join us. The 375 will be perfect for that hunt. I will have my 416 Rigby with me that week and you are welcome to handle it. There is much we could discuss and I have used it a lot on DG and PG also. If you want to bump up from the 375, the 416 is the next most logical step. The Wby is not seen nearly as much in Africa and that much velocity is actually counter-productive. Recoil wise, it's about 2-3 steps up from the 375 H&H. 416 Rigby is one step up and you will get exits on most shots. Any more energy is wasted on beating up the shooter.

Thanks Bryan and I will absolutely take you up on the offer!

Relative to the Weatherby, its the 375 that I'm looking at, not the 378. It's a pretty straight forward rechamber. Allows you to push the 350 grain 375 bullets to similar velocity as the 300 in the H&H. Not the 378 Wby at crazy speeds.

 

[Nhoro]

One more vote for the 375 h&h. A weatherby generally pushes lead core bullets pretty hard and your failure rate climbs. If you really want a bigger calibre then 416 or 458 are better options. Bigger hole. Always remember shot placement is paramount. I have watched a buffalo shot with a 378 weatherly act exactly like the many I have seen shot with a 375 h&h. It ran about the same distance and took the same time to die.

So the weatherby offers the same calibre hole with more recoil/bullet breakups. Flatter trajectory and more energy at distance don't mean much in DG hunting.

 

[Fatback]

If you already have a 375 H&H that shoots so well, I’d keep it just like it is. As far as wanting something a bit larger, the 416 catridges are the next logical choice. The Rem Mag is cheaper to feed than the Rigby which typically equates to more practice, which is a very good thing.

However, when considering African safari rifles, some times logic goes out the window, for me at least. The 404Jeffery is another possibility with similar recoil to the 416s. They are harder to find and are more expensive than most of the 416s and are more expensive to feed, but that caliber has been killing big, dangerous animals in Africa for over a century. Certainly has quite a bit of nostalgia associated with it, if that matters to you at all. I could not decide between the 416Rem and the 404Jeffery, so I have rifles in both calibers. Certainly some overlap but what’s a fella to do??

 

[UpNorthMI]

Stick with the .375 H&H if it is shooting well for you. As you are not shooting factory loads my only comment would be to make sure your loaded ammo is meeting full factory muzzle velocity.

You mention elephant, buffalo & leopard, that is quite a mixed bag and I think some elephant hunters here may possibly comment to consider going slightly bigger for elephant than a .375. I've never hunted elephant so I'm not qualified to give advice.

I did just go on a 32 buffalo cull trip in Australia with my son, I was shooting a .500/.416NE double rifle (equivalent to .416 Rigby) and my son was shooting a .375H&H, the difference between the knock down of the 2 calibers became evident very quickly as we were shooting many buffalo each day. Following this hunt I have decided to buy a .416 bolt gun for my future DG use, it will be a Blaser R8 in .416 Rem. I am not bad mouthing the .375 H&H as I have several and love shooting them but having experienced something a little bigger for DG there is a real effective difference in the field. The nice thing about Blaser is I can take my new .416 Rem rifle and my current .375 barrel for just about anything else on a hunting trip.

I know Dieter (I hunted buffalo cows with him last year) and respect his experience & views, I'm sure you can take an elephant with a .375 H&H with the right ammo but I would read a lot more hunt reports here and discuss with experienced members as you are currently doing. Personally, I'd hate to find myself looking at a huge elephant raising a rifle and the key thought in my mind being that I may not have enough gun! If you are convinced to add a hippo, I understand that they are often taken with many of the larger calibers, again I have no experience and cannot give my input.

If I was going on your trip for Elephant & Hippo, I would for sure take my new .416 Rem rifle, I might just use the trip as an excuse to be buying the .458 Lott barrel for my Blaser R8, I know I can handle .416 recoil OK not sure if I really want to keep going up in caliber to the .458 Lott.

Many will correctly say that the .375 is more than capable for all of these animals. having tried slightly larger with great success I look forward to shooting my new.416 Rem and my existing .500/.416NE double at larger DG.

Maybe it's good to travel with 2 guns, buying an additional bigger rifle could be exciting too.

Have fun getting ready for what sounds like a great hunt, Good Luck.

 

[DieJager]

I regularly shoot a 375, heck it was my only gun for years. I loaned a 470NE for my first hunt in Africa. Loved it. I did not find the recoil much worse, more a hard shove.

I really love to buy one in the future, that said my 375 is logically more than enough. How many times will I need it really? It is not that I hunt elephant daily.

If you bring your own gun just stick with the 375. I did not want to bring my own gun the first time. Only reason that I loaned one.

Edit: another reason is that we only can have 6 guns so every slot is precious.

 

[Azklmsr]

If you already have a 375 H&H that shoots so well, I’d keep it just like it is. As far as wanting something a bit larger, the 416 catridges are the next logical choice. The Rem Mag is cheaper to feed than the Rigby which typically equates to more practice, which is a very good thing.

However, when considering African safari rifles, some times logic goes out the window, for me at least. The 404Jeffery is another possibility with similar recoil to the 416s. They are harder to find and are more expensive than most of the 416s and are more expensive to feed, but that caliber has been killing big, dangerous animals in Africa for over a century. Certainly has quite a bit of nostalgia associated with it, if that matters to you at all. I could not decide between the 416Rem and the 404Jeffery, so I have rifles in both calibers. Certainly some overlap but what’s a fella to do??

Copy that for Sure

The Rigby is purely the nostalgia perspective. My Father had an affinity for the 404J, but I never had the pleasure.

I'm purely a Bolt guy at least for now, but those 470NE doubles sure evoke some smiles!

 

[Fatback]

@Azklmsr, I have all my bases covered in bolt guns and then some for sure, I am fighting off the urge to enter the world of double rifles, I’ve been successful in that, so far…

 

[BeeMaa]

There is a big difference between “need” and “want”.

If you plan on hunting buffalo and elephant several times, your level of need would increase IMO. If you plan on hunting them 5 times or less, the 375H&H will sort you out just fine.

Put more time into practice with the one rifle and become the master of it, rather than spending it on another rifle. Spend that money on more adventures and safaris.

Fear the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it. Clint Smith

 

[Red Leg]

I own or have owned two .404's, a .470. and a 500/416. I shoot them all very well. All of my dangerous game except a leopard were taken with a .375 H&H. Nothing I have ever seen, used, or heard about is more versatile.

 

[gcbailey]

If I had your problem (which is a wonderful problem to have), I would go with a .404 Jeffery or .416 Rigby in a bolt gun, or .450 Nitro or 470 Nitro in a double gun.

 

[thi9elsp]

In the air Tampa to Atlanta then to Joburg. Next day Zimbabwe. My CO’s 375 and 404j are coming along. I find the 375 a pleasure to shoot. The 404j is fine standing off hand. I will use the 404j for my first elephant and will let you know how it goes. As always, shot placement means the most.

 

[Azklmsr]

In the air Tampa to Atlanta then to Joburg. Next day Zimbabwe. My CO’s 375 and 404j are coming along. I find the 375 a pleasure to shoot. The 404j is fine standing off hand. I will use the 404j for my first elephant and will let you know how it goes. As always, shot placement means the most.

Super cool

Have a Blessed, Safe, and Successful hunt, In that Order!

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