Hunting Nyala - What is a fair price?

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Dox, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. daggaboyblog

    daggaboyblog AH Veteran

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    Hunting by inches

    Whenever we place a dollar value on anything there is always going to be a supply-demand equation that can only be controlled by increasing the price. May not be the best way to hunt, certainly not my cup of tea, but I appreciate that this is the way it is. I shot a nice 28" nyala bull who had a few years under his belt, wide polished tips and quite a heavily scarred skin - I think I paid about $3200 and I was very happy with the hunt. The trophy fee was fixed regardless of the size of the animal. My PH mentioned that a nearby property had a 34" bull but they wanted $7000. No way! But as my PH said, someone will shoot him!

    I was very disappointed with a lion hunting operation I visited. A hunter chose the specific animal he wanted and they all had a different price - it was like buying an engagement ring - the bigger the diamond (aka mane in this case), the bigger the dollars. And these animals were released prior to the hunters arrival, with most of the "traditional hunts on foot" completed in a day!

    Similarly, cape buffalo were on offer, standing around eating hay bales. Most of the hunters came in saying "I'm looking to spend $20k, what does that buy me?"

    So if we can apply this sliding price system to lion, buffalo, elephant, ibex, elk, all manner of deer, etc, etc, all over the world - why not nyala? I don't like it, and I don't agree with toll roads or vegetarians either, but that's the way it is.

    I have a friend who worked for the Agricltural Research Division in Swaziland and he was given the gift of a day's hunting on the King's private land at the end of his contract; he took an 18" nyala and it is his most coveted trophy.

    For an up-and-coming hunter or a first safari, the opportunity to hunt nyala for $1430 is amazing, and 26 inches is representative. Sounds like Niel is creating opportunities.
     

  2. NUys

    NUys AH Veteran

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    Hi there Jaque.

    I actually put this topic behind me because it seems like a personal thing but I need to say this for the outfitters out there that runs a honest and fare business.

    My honest opinion on this whole scale system issue is as follow.

    It might give some hunters the impression that it works like a supermarket yes. But on the end of the day it depends on the outfitter what he wants to charge or not. And the decision where to hunt lies with the hunter himself. What is funny about this whole system is that the most expensive animal on the scale system is more a less the same price than an animal not on a scale system. For example some outfits are charging US$ 2500 for any Nyala from 25 inch up to 30 inch and on my scale system a 29 inch Nyala is US$ 70 more. Impala not on a scale system is US$ 450 and on my price list for a 21 Inch plus Impala is US$ 430.

    I totally agree that there are outfits that operate like a supermarket by buying in big trophy animals and put them in a small camp up for hunting. Unfortunately there is a market for this kind of hunting and it all started by hunters that are chasing the record books. I can give you the certainty that I am not up for these kinds of hunts and I think our scale system benefits the hunter that does not need to pay US$ 2500 for a fare chased old 26 inch Nyala bull.

    On the other hand our scale system is not cast in concrete. And on some occasions after a long stalk at an animal that might be on the top of the scale system, I will give that animal to the hunter for the minimum price.

    Secondly I just want to answer a Question for Kelly. Nyala do wear there horns down like Enysse said and the prime animals are usually the ones with the longer horns. With a scale system we try to motivate the hunter to go for the older ones because they are much less in price than your young 30 inch bulls. Where did the 100 pound Elephants go to and the 13 inch plus Warthogs? There were no prices on them, that are the reason, open to all for next to nothing! THIS LIST CAN GO ON AND ON!

    Thanks Guys.

    Just my opinion.
     

  3. pinotguy

    pinotguy AH Senior Member

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    Those folks ain't hunters.
     

  4. Shallom

    Shallom AH Enthusiast

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    This thread is a clear indication of just how "hunting" has developed (or deteriorated) over the years. I am nobody to oppose another persons view or opinion, but speaking in my principle - DO NOT confuse HUNTING with some of the activities and views being discussed here - HUNTING ethically in wilderness habitats does not include price tags based on size and choices based on 'looks' - A real hunter knows and acknowledges when he/she is hunting/shooting/culling or whatever else exists out there these days!

    Each time i make an effort to accept the various 'hunting' options out there in man-made set-ups, i am put-off by certain individuals who abuse the good intent of having a substitute to wilderness hunting. I would rather it be called FARMING or LIVESTOCK safaris. Let's just all be careful about how we approach or interpret hunting and true adventure.
     

  5. LouisB

    LouisB AH Fanatic

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    Hi guy’s
    Well I it seems that we all agree on one matter and that is hunting and shopping for animals are two entirely different
    things.

    I would first of all like to say that my pricelist does not work according to inches we take the best possible trophy and with a bit of luck it is a great animal.

    There are operations that work according to inches and most of them are put and take operations with very little land to their disposal but there is always an exception to the rule I have recently been to a area where Neil (Leeukop Safaris) hunts and let me tell you they have nyala like I have got impala on my place this is due to the simple fact that nyala are native to his area.

    I hate the fact that people ask per inch but then while we are at it lets expose all the factors involved.
    Should you offer a buffalo hunt in South Africa most of the game capturers will charge you per inch this will lead to the price starting at x and then going up to something crazy. There are also a lot of small farms just breeding buffalo to shoot that is all that these people do and the first question they ask you is how many inches would your client like followed by and crazy price I am sorry but they can all go to hell for all I care. I think that this affects the price of dangerous game hunting in particular to a great extent where it is not financially viable for most Outfitters in South Africa to offer a dangerous game hunt if he is not hunting it on his own land.

    Now where does this trend come from I ask?

    The only way that I could have come to a conclusion is that because of put and take operations who have either overhunted their land or who has not got big enough land to sustainably hunt on so they obviously need to buy this specie from the game capturers in turn some clients are willing to pay a lot of money for a great penned up animal and the bottom line of supply and demand applies. I am afraid that this is another sad thing in the hunting industry which not everyone is guilty of but it surely does happen.

    I just feel that each animal should have a fair price on it. The most important thing when considering where to hunt an animal is the simple fact of is the animal native to that area I can assure you that the trophy quality on average will be very good and it will most certainly be a great hunt.

    Cheers Louis
     

  6. monish

    monish AH Elite

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    Louis very rightly said , Hunting is a institution and its learning all the time .

    Monish
     

  7. Big5

    Big5 AH Fanatic

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    Louis, I too agree that this has made for a sad state of affairs for there are those who will equate this to hunting. This form of 'trophy killing' is certainly not ‘hunting’ and should not be confused with true sport and/or trophy hunting.
    .
     

  8. owenowen

    owenowen AH Veteran

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    hi

    Hi all,

    I read this post and saw many good comments. Basically like stated above prices all depends on the outfitter and owner of the safari and animals. Lets say a owner re- locates nyala from Natal to a different province in RSA firstly it costly and risky , when and if it pays off well to the owner he is most likely to do the " per inch " pricing system. As we know in Natal you will find well priced nyala but even there some owners are using the "inch pricing" again it depends on the seller. With us again its very opposite we dont use "inch system" on our nyala and we are based in Northern cape and Western cape region in the one province we charge a fixed price of $ 2300 and the other we charge a fixed price of around $ 1430. However on our Kudu in the western cape we use " inch pricing " 40" - $ 784 - 50"-55" - $ 915 and 55" plus - $ 1175. Its just the way we do it. So again actually all species where ever you hunt all google on the internet make sure what the outfitter uses " inches pricing or fixed " to avoid disappointment. Remember fenced safaris were created by man that started it all with his own cash and heart. However if you hunt in open free concessions then i agree that no "inch fee " should be used.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010

  9. Frederik

    Frederik AH Enthusiast

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    My view on this is that Nyala prices will drop. A couple of years ago all the game farmers started farming and introducing nyalas and now just like giraffe every decent game farm has them.

    So now if you look at the auction prices the prices of 3-4 years ago Nyala prices must have dropped at least 25-30 % We have been charging less than $2000.00 for a nyala trophy irrespective if its a 25 or 30 inch trophy for the 2008 and 2009 seasons and only now have adjusted our pricelist to over $2000 because of the strengthening of the Rand. They are cheaper in Rand but the dollar just have to grow stronger again.

    Chris, you will find that nyala natrurally occur in the far north east of Limpopo province and there is bloody good genes as well.

    [​IMG]
    This one was shot on January 7th 2010 close to Tshipise by an Italian client of ours. Its body was ernomous and he slaughtered out 72kg carcass only.

    [​IMG]
     

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  10. enysse

    enysse AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Here is a thread started on nyala, That I thought I'd bump to the front, that will answer some people's questions.
     

  11. seattlesetters

    seattlesetters AH Veteran

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    I personally choose not to hunt with any outfit that uses a per-inch system of pricing. Whether or not the particular outfit in question is put-and-take or not, using the per-inch pricing system helps to perpetuate put-and-take by acknowledging its primary pricing structure as somehow being acceptable.

    I want no part of being an accessory to that crime.
     

  12. Bushbuck

    Bushbuck AH Enthusiast

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    I think most of the prices I see today for an Nyala are fair. I think I paid the most for the first 2 animals I shot years ago. All the ones I have taken over the past 15 years cost about half as much and the prices keep dropping.
     

  13. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    I was quite shocked during my initial research into hunting South Africa that you could buy the various animals at all (auctions).
    Seeing that National Park systems also auctioned animals, schools raised funds by this method, etc.
    It was one of my first realizations about a different culture I was going to be seeing. Not bad, just different. It is obviously open to abuses, as any system is.

    It also illustrated how much research I had ahead of me to be certain that I was going to be hunting in a manner I found tenable.

    Wildlife management on an active basis on any property is always going to be driven by three things at least; managing the environment, the animals and the people. So, maybe the price per inch system was an attempt to direct the people. Since, as some have pointed out here, there is not a perfect correlation between inches of horn and age, it may not work as a management practice. Maybe it worked, maybe not, but they own the property..

    We have created various organizations the world over that place focus on the size of the trophy or create a perception of what a trophy is by measuring; bone, horn, ivory, teeth, etc. in inches etc. RW, SCI, B&C, CIC, SA, etc.
    Again, it is open to abuse and can have a significant impact.

    People are trying to make a living and they will provide what clients ask for. An excellent example is creating four colors of Spring Buck!
    If I look at my own experience; originally, I had no idea where any of the species were "native". You can take Nyala in Limpopo, Natal, etc. They are included on many "price lists", so you can hunt them all over the place. I wanted to hunt a Nyala and only after reading Louis Van Bergen's (Spiral Horn Safaris) comments and through emails did I start to think about where would be best to actually hunt what I was after, Nyala. I will head into the Natal.

    It is incredibly hard to market the intangible concept of "hunting experience". You get a few moments to beguile them with a web site, photo's, pamphlets of DVD's.
    Cost is always a consideration for most people so, it appears to me that the market has evolved as usual: Hunters want the most species (opportunities) available, tending toward the least cost; in the shortest time possible. You can buy animals at auction and if you are strongly focused on profit you can sell to people who are unaware or do not care where they hunt and do "put and take" in a very small space. There is obviously a market present for this type of hunting.

    Most people can not afford to go to Namibia to hunt Eland, Gemsbok and Red Hartabeest then pack up and go to SA's Karoo for Spring Buck the Natal for Nyala and then on to East Cape for Bontebok and then to finish off in Mozambique for a Buffalo and Crocodile and on to Botswana for another Buffalo and Sititunga then CAR for that Bongo within there annual vacation. (Oh, the 1 year long dream expedition. :))

    "P&T" obviously became prevalent enough that legislation was apparently changed to ensure that the lion (and other species) had to be free roaming for, if I recall, two years, before it can be hunted.
    With that criterion in place you certainly will have to have a self sustaining environment or a very dedicated feeding program! Who knows if this legislation will stop, curtail, "canned lion hunting" or change it at all.
    The hunters will decide with their dollars. The landowners, outfitters, and PH's will all continue to try to make a living by providing what is demanded.

    I also keep seeing comments about "representative animals" of the species being taken as trophies. This looks like the start of a process to get hunters to start to accept a reasonable animal versus the biggest animal possible. So, the discussion regarding "hunters and outfitters being at odds" could be very true. If you can only "harvest" 5% of the male animals on a property and you want to make a living that could be very interesting to create a balance.

    I hope to get that Nyala I'm looking for in his home turf on a large property that is well managed. It will be a challenge and I certainly look forward experience.
     

  14. davidarizpe

    davidarizpe AH Veteran

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    When I was a teenager my grandpa told me that if I wanted to hone my hunting skills I had to try for a specific deer, and to stop shooting the first trophy buck that crossed my sendero, I tried that year to hunt a crooked horn deer in our ranch with no success, the second year I learned to pattern this buck and was able to harvest it, I understood what my grandpa meant,
    IMHO by any means trying to hunt a specific Nyala in a property diminishes the hunting experience, Au contraire, is harder to accomplish, I believe it makes a harder hunt, I do not know any other place where you can hunt a mature Nyala for 1400, I am sure it will be easier just to shoot the first mature male that is available.
     

  15. BigBullet

    BigBullet AH Member

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    What is fair?...what is not fair? It is each clients personal choice. There are hunters with deeper pockets then mine are willing to pay more then I can. Hunting is a business, this must be understood. An owner/operator is going to what makes the most sense for his piece of property and for the clientel he is serving. yes we all have our own personal biases (opinions) on how someone elses business is to be run, but we are not having to cover the mortgage or pay the staff wages, so it is easy for us to judge.

    My personal preference is to hunt free range whenever I can, I hunt with independent PH's when I can and am extemely frugal in my spending. I am sure I miss out on some of the better ranches and hunting and accomidations because I am not willing to pay the higher prices, but that is my choice. Also we must remeber that price is tied closely to exchange rates.

    Below is the nyala I took in Sept 2010 in KZN. This was a free range hunt and i had a wonderful hunt. The trophy fee was $1600. But I could have hunted other ranches that were as low as $1200 and some as high as $2200. I agree with the statement that nyala trophy fees will be coming down. There are many farms now that have them, the biltong hunters don't want them because of their price, so there is currently an abundance.


    [​IMG]
     
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  16. enysse

    enysse AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Thanks for tht picture Big Bullet! That is one nice nyala....somewhere around 28.5 inches?
     

  17. Bushbuck

    Bushbuck AH Enthusiast

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    This may or may not be true, but I was once told they are not as hardy as some other African antelope. Someone has some money invested to have a good heard of Nyala on there property. I was told the cold does not do them any favors and can kill an Nyala easier than other animals.
     

  18. BigBullet

    BigBullet AH Member

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    Enysse, You have a very good eye! It measured just a hair over 29" by the taxidermist I brought him to in Newcastle, KZN. Can't wait to get him back.
     

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