Hunting Ethics of shooting Buffalo bull while he’s laying down

That buck rolled down the hill and then I pulled it out of the gully in the background to this spot so I could drive to it. The buck was flat broadside when I shot it behind right shoulder. As I recall the bullet did not exit which is not surprising as buck was only standing on two hind legs when knocked/thrown off the doe. I presume it either rolled in its own blood or more likely I pulled it through blood after I gutted it. I was set up for quite a while before taking the shot. Mama actually laid down while watching me. But she kept looking up the coulee so I expected more deer were coming. Sat down, waited, and I was right. By the time the buck showed himself I had a very good rest with sling in sitting position. Well settled down before taking the shot. So I took it. Easy. Nice buck into the freezer.

I really don't care for some self-pontificating loudmouth self-proclaimed "wild Africa" expert calling me a liar. Too bad you don't have half as much knowledge as you give yourself credit for.

Don't believe I have ever boosted or even mentioned my outfitter's name on this forum. You probably read it from the logo on my cap in photos? Guess I can't do the same as you black out or cut off your head/face in any trophy photos you post. Given your attitude I guess it's best to stay anonymous. I'm not sure why you keep referring to my outfitter in derogatory terms. But I'm sure they don't appreciate it. I know I don't. Grow up.

By the way, I'm usually in the field well before daybreak, whether here, Montana, or Africa. Exception is uplands. They typically don't move much until dew is off the grass. And I need better light to determine sex of roosters.
There is only one way to bring some of your ridiculous comments down to reality. Africa is a big place.
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That buck rolled down the hill and then I pulled it out of the gully in the background to this spot so I could drive to it. The buck was flat broadside when I shot it behind right shoulder. As I recall the bullet did not exit which is not surprising as buck was only standing on two hind legs when knocked/thrown off the doe. I presume it either rolled in its own blood or more likely I pulled it through blood after I gutted it. I was set up for quite a while before taking the shot. Mama actually laid down while watching me. But she kept looking up the coulee so I expected more deer were coming. Sat down, waited, and I was right. By the time the buck showed himself I had a very good rest with sling in sitting position. Well settled down before taking the shot. So I took it. Easy. Nice buck into the freezer.

I really don't care for some self-pontificating loudmouth self-proclaimed "wild Africa" expert calling me a liar. Too bad you don't have half as much knowledge as you give yourself credit for.

Don't believe I have ever boosted or even mentioned my outfitter's name on this forum. You probably read it from the logo on my cap in photos? Guess I can't do the same as you black out or cut off your head/face in any trophy photos you post. Given your attitude I guess it's best to stay anonymous. I'm not sure why you keep referring to my outfitter in derogatory terms. But I'm sure they don't appreciate it. I know I don't. Grow up.

By the way, I'm usually in the field well before daybreak, whether here, Montana, or Africa. Exception is uplands. They typically don't move much until dew is off the grass. And I need better light to determine sex of roosters.
That should read "... behind its left shoulder." Buck was facing same direction when shot.
 
There is only one way to bring some of your ridiculous comments down to reality. Africa is a big place.
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My mistake. I thought I PMed that fella. Usually prefer to let my outfitter do his own advertising. Incidentally, during sixty years of hunting I've only used two outfitters. I prefer to hunt solo. The other being a waterfowl outfitter in SK that I would not recommend to anyone except jerks who deserve a bad hunt. Feel free to PM me for his particulars.
 
To the OP… I would wait for him at stand up before I shot. Took me 4 days and nights to shoot my Hippo on land. I also shot my crock on land and prefer that experience. Also shot my Buff standing until it tipped over, then gave it a finishing shot in the heart…

To each their own…
 
I shot my bull last year while he was lying down. Put an A-Frame through his heart. It never even crossed my mind that some would think this is unethical. Why would it be ? It does make for a tougher shot, visualizing vitals and angles. I would say as far as an ethical shot goes the difficulty in shot placement is offset by the unlikeliness the bull will move as trigger breaks. If an animal is unaware of your presence at the shot, does that make it unethical ? I would guess that the majority of big game worldwide is shot while unaware of the hunters presence, if so what ethical difference does it make what position the animal is in (as long as vitals can be hit) ? I strive to hunt in such a manner that the game is unaware and relaxed when shooting time comes. I have shot numerous whitetails in their beds after still hunting up on them. I get great satisfaction in this, a lot tougher hunt than whacking them over a food plot out of a box blind or treestand.
I have talked to deer hunters that claim to always get their bucks up and running because they feel that it is unfair to kill a buck that doesn't know it is being hunted. Frankly, I have always regarded such hunters as ignorant, and most likely have not killed many (if any) bucks. It seems to.me that it is more ethical to shoot an animal that is standing (or lying) still than it is to shoot at a moving animal. The two buffalo that I have taken were both standing, but I do not see an ethical problem with shooting one that was lying down if you are confident you can make the kill shot.
 
And you know what most PHs would allow how?
I have hunted with four different PHs, none of whom would let me shoot at a plains game animal laying down (unless it was wounded), let alone buffalo. Maybe I had an opportunity at two different buffalo laying down. Both times it was wait for them to stand. Both times they took off as soon as they stood. I held fire the first time because no shot presented and also told not to shoot: buff ran straight away. I shot the second bull running through both lungs at sixty yards. Wasn't told not to shoot so I took the shot. PH said later he was confident in my ability to make the shot. He'd seen me in action with running shot on previous safari. And that gemsbuck was a much more difficult presentation than the buffalo.

Offhand I can recall over the years shooting two moose and one whitetail in their beds. One bull was less than twenty yards in very thick alders. So thick I couldn't see the cow standing ahead of him (though knew she was about). It was nearly dark and I easily put 180 gr 06 through his heart. Close enough I could have thrown my gun and hit him. Snow was almost knee deep so tracking would not be difficult: I'd been tracking them all day. He got up and ran into a spruce tree maybe fifteen yards away. I could see it's top disappear and noise ceased so I knew he was down. Second bull was asleep in a cutting unit, just before noon. Again, deep new snow. Watched him from eighty yards for quite a while before the sun lit up his rack and I could tell for sure he was a bull. Very deep snow and laying sideways so I took a neck shot. He stood up sick so I shot him in the neck again, knocking him over. That was a mistake. Should have put it in the boiler room. Wound up shooting him five times before it was over. Three bullets would have eventually been mortal and the fifth was a brain shot as he turned for me. Fortunately, he didn't go far or suffer too long. And I maybe only lost a couple pounds of meat. Lucky there. Without snow I would not have taken a shot till he got up. But without snow it's doubtful I would have seen him till he was up and off. The whitetail buck was laying over the edge of a bench peering down at me from maybe sixty yards. No snow. All I could see was his head. So I shot him in the head. He would either be dead or the shot missed. If I missed, no big deal. No worries about wounding him. Still early in the season and he was far from being a trophy. Meat in the freezer and not an ounce wasted.

I suppose there are some situations where shooting a buffalo laying down might be acceptable. Firstly, the PH would have to be confident in the shooter's abilities. It would have to be an absolutely open shot which would be difficult because buffalo tend to bed down in thick stuff. Shot placement would be atypical because buffalo, like cattle, seldom lay down with body vertical. They lay tilted on one side. Consequently, trajectory after impact may be angled. PH needs to know how to adjust for that ... if it can be adjusted. Basically, the shooter has a better view of the vitals if the animal is standing. Better view = higher probability for mortal shot placement. When dealing with dangerous game, shoot for the highest probability for lowest bad outcome. That's just common sense.
 
Scenario … You’ve hunted fair-chase buff’s for 8 straight days with any number of encounters and missed opportunities. On the morning of day 9 (your last morning to hunt), after a 2 hour stalk, you come across a nice Buff bull at 60 yds and confirm he’s a shooter. The only problem is he’s laying down in the shade of some cover. You have a slightly tricky shot through a hole in some brush but are steady on the sticks and are confident you can make a good shot into his vitals.

Question for the group … Do you wait for him to stand up before shooting (you could be there a while!), or do you shoot him while he’s laying down?

Asking for a friend…

Glad for your thoughts on this scenario.

Well Jaco and I discussed hunting buffalo at the SCI Reno about 10 years ago in Rambullions (we were at least half a dozen drinks in) and I suggested throwing rocks at the buffalo to get him to charge.
 
Motivating the buffalo to attack and then to shoot it at close range would not be a bad technique. Unfortunately, it does not attack on command, but mostly when this is not wanted.
 
I have hunted with four different PHs, none of whom would let me shoot at a plains game animal laying down (unless it was wounded), let alone buffalo. Maybe I had an opportunity at two different buffalo laying down. Both times it was wait for them to stand. Both times they took off as soon as they stood. I held fire the first time because no shot presented and also told not to shoot: buff ran straight away. I shot the second bull running through both lungs at sixty yards. Wasn't told not to shoot so I took the shot. PH said later he was confident in my ability to make the shot. He'd seen me in action with running shot on previous safari. And that gemsbuck was a much more difficult presentation than the buffalo.

Offhand I can recall over the years shooting two moose and one whitetail in their beds. One bull was less than twenty yards in very thick alders. So thick I couldn't see the cow standing ahead of him (though knew she was about). It was nearly dark and I easily put 180 gr 06 through his heart. Close enough I could have thrown my gun and hit him. Snow was almost knee deep so tracking would not be difficult: I'd been tracking them all day. He got up and ran into a spruce tree maybe fifteen yards away. I could see it's top disappear and noise ceased so I knew he was down. Second bull was asleep in a cutting unit, just before noon. Again, deep new snow. Watched him from eighty yards for quite a while before the sun lit up his rack and I could tell for sure he was a bull. Very deep snow and laying sideways so I took a neck shot. He stood up sick so I shot him in the neck again, knocking him over. That was a mistake. Should have put it in the boiler room. Wound up shooting him five times before it was over. Three bullets would have eventually been mortal and the fifth was a brain shot as he turned for me. Fortunately, he didn't go far or suffer too long. And I maybe only lost a couple pounds of meat. Lucky there. Without snow I would not have taken a shot till he got up. But without snow it's doubtful I would have seen him till he was up and off. The whitetail buck was laying over the edge of a bench peering down at me from maybe sixty yards. No snow. All I could see was his head. So I shot him in the head. He would either be dead or the shot missed. If I missed, no big deal. No worries about wounding him. Still early in the season and he was far from being a trophy. Meat in the freezer and not an ounce wasted.

I suppose there are some situations where shooting a buffalo laying down might be acceptable. Firstly, the PH would have to be confident in the shooter's abilities. It would have to be an absolutely open shot which would be difficult because buffalo tend to bed down in thick stuff. Shot placement would be atypical because buffalo, like cattle, seldom lay down with body vertical. They lay tilted on one side. Consequently, trajectory after impact may be angled. PH needs to know how to adjust for that ... if it can be adjusted. Basically, the shooter has a better view of the vitals if the animal is standing. Better view = higher probability for mortal shot placement. When dealing with dangerous game, shoot for the highest probability for lowest bad outcome. That's just common sense.
1 outfitter, 4 trips, 4 different PHs. Interesting.
 
Scenario … You’ve hunted fair-chase buff’s for 8 straight days with any number of encounters and missed opportunities. On the morning of day 9 (your last morning to hunt), after a 2 hour stalk, you come across a nice Buff bull at 60 yds and confirm he’s a shooter. The only problem is he’s laying down in the shade of some cover. You have a slightly tricky shot through a hole in some brush but are steady on the sticks and are confident you can make a good shot into his vitals.

Question for the group … Do you wait for him to stand up before shooting (you could be there a while!), or do you shoot him while he’s laying down?

Asking for a friend…

Glad for your thoughts on this scenario.


Not only "would" I do it, I actually did do it. Shot it on Thanksgiving Day, November in the Omay is grueling, it is still one of my favorite hunts. Lindon Stanton was the PH.

This was from the story I wrote:

Thanksgiving Day was day six of the hunt. That morning Lindon and I headed back to Della. We checked a spring and walked back to the road with no luck. We then decided to drive to Secret Valley, about an hour away. We ate lunch and took a break. At around 1:00 we struck out toward a spring. We found tracks that appeared to be fresh but it rained lightly that morning. After a couple of hours of tracking we were on fresh tracks made after the rain. We finally caught up with the buffalo at the top of the hill. During the course of tracking we covered around 12 kilometers and gained over 1100 feet in elevation. We were moving in for a shot and I felt a puff of wind on my back. About 5 seconds later the buffalo ran. We bumped them two more times and either they saw, heard, or smelled us. We caught up to them a fourth time less than two hours before dark. Lindon and I made the final stalk on our own. We crawled flat on our stomachs to a fallen tree approximately 75 yards from the best buffalo. It was lying down with the last twenty yards of the shot through trees. After making certain which was the correct one I stood up and fired one shot offhand at the bull with my 470 Krieghoff. The buffalo never got up, as I shot it in the spine, near the front shoulder. I reloaded the one barrel and we moved forward about twenty yards and I put a second shot in it. We moved to within 20 yards and a final shot found its mark. Six hard days of hunting were now over with a nice buffalo on the ground. We cut the head off and hung it in a tree to keep it away from the hyenas. Since we crossed the Ndepe hill/mountain we were back in Della. It was an easy 3 kilometer walk back to the truck since the driver moved back to Della, arriving after dark.
 
Scenario … You’ve hunted fair-chase buff’s for 8 straight days with any number of encounters and missed opportunities. On the morning of day 9 (your last morning to hunt), after a 2 hour stalk, you come across a nice Buff bull at 60 yds and confirm he’s a shooter. The only problem is he’s laying down in the shade of some cover. You have a slightly tricky shot through a hole in some brush but are steady on the sticks and are confident you can make a good shot into his vitals.

Question for the group … Do you wait for him to stand up before shooting (you could be there a while!), or do you shoot him while he’s laying down?

Asking for a friend…

Glad for your thoughts on this scenario.
Scenario … You’ve hunted fair-chase buff’s for 8 straight days with any number of encounters and missed opportunities. On the morning of day 9 (your last morning to hunt), after a 2 hour stalk, you come across a nice Buff bull at 60 yds and confirm he’s a shooter. The only problem is he’s laying down in the shade of some cover. You have a slightly tricky shot through a hole in some brush but are steady on the sticks and are confident you can make a good shot into his vitals.

Question for the group … Do you wait for him to stand up before shooting (you could be there a while!), or do you shoot him while he’s laying down?

Asking for a friend…

Glad for your thoughts on this scenario.
There is nothing unethical on shooting a buffalo that is laying down. I think what affects your scenario case you have outlined above is "shot placement. " Most PHs wouldn't allow the client to take risky shots, they would rather wait for perfect shot placements(shoulder lung shot)on a good visible terrain. Exceptions can be made on these tricky situations but this goes down between the PH/Client relationship and it's usually the PH that gives out the final call.
 
1 outfitter, 4 trips, 4 different PHs. Interesting.
Third safari my previous fantastic PH was not available because he had accepted a position as hunt manager at another lodge. Then the PH assigned to me had to drop out mid safari when his grandmother died. Fourth safari I was supposed to have the second safari replacement PH (also a great guy) but a wealthy client who he'd previously guided several times showed up unexpectadly and asked for my guy. I said okay and glad I did. Would not have wanted that important client to get stuck with my PH. He is a cull. I put up with him but don't think the other client would have.

PHs do move around in their careers, not unlike everyone else.
 
Third safari my previous fantastic PH was not available because he had accepted a position as hunt manager at another lodge. Then the PH assigned to me had to drop out mid safari when his grandmother died. Fourth safari I was supposed to have the second safari replacement PH (also a great guy) but a wealthy client who he'd previously guided several times showed up unexpectadly and asked for my guy. I said okay and glad I did. Would not have wanted that important client to get stuck with my PH. He is a cull. I put up with him but don't think the other client would have.

PHs do move around in their careers, not unlike everyone else.
Grandma died, previous wealthy client showed up unexpectedly, hmmmm

PHs also have a habit of declining to hunt with problem clients a second time.
 
Shooting a trophy while he’s rutting seems ethical but … unjust? If I had the shot I’d prolly take it myself but talk about the Thrill of Victory and sudden Agony of Defeat!
I was thinking about how embarrassing of a moment that would be to suffer a sudden loss of blood pressure. Talk about adding insult to injury.
 

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