Double delay

Kevin Peacocke

AH elite
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
1,510
Reaction score
3,611
Location
Harare Zimbabwe
Media
59
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
Cleveland Gun Club
Hunted
Zimbabwe, SouthAfrica
Folks, these have been a frustrating few months, please bear with me relating the experience in build up to asking you for your valuable input to a decision I must make.
So I am in love with the Heym 89B as you probably gathered, functionality, aesthetics, all perfect. So I get in touch with the South African agent in January, yes he happens to have a 450/400 in stock! So I buy my air ticket and get the negative covid test, and if it fits me, it's a deal. Night before and the covid spikes hugely, our chairman (my brother) forbids all travel. So I inform the agent it is all off for now, and within a few days he lets me know the double is sold anyway.
Ok, so now we have a clean slate, and I start doing the usual vascillating, comparing of options and the pendulum swings to the 375 Flanged Magnum in the light framed 89b. It all seems so right, and I can apparently order it now and get down to Pretoria for a fitting later. The order is duly placed - and my bank corrupts my account in some internal changes and I can't access my funds for over three weeks. The day that that is finally resolved, my kids get into a bind buying their new house and the Heym fund has to urgently go to that noble cause. So I have to cancel again. I can only imagine how the Heym agent took this.
Now at last the path seems clear again, but that clean slate raises it's head once more - should I go for the 375 Flanged Mag in the light frame (3.6kg) or back to the 450/400 in the Africa frame (4.5kg)? Help me guys, after all this I am swimming.
 

Rare Breed

AH enthusiast
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
374
Reaction score
523
Location
Atlanta GA
Media
21
Hunting reports
Africa
2
Help me Kevin...I thought the 450-400 can take even Elephant while the 375 cannot. Just curious as I want one DR for all DG
 

Red Leg

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
6,725
Reaction score
19,737
Location
Texas Hill Country
Media
285
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
2
USA/Canada
5
Mex/S.Amer
1
Europe
3
Member of
SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
Hunted
Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
I'll be the contrarian. Do you want a purely dangerous game rifle to lug around or do you want a general purpose rifle that is a joy to carry as well as shoot? How many elephant do you intend to take? With a 270 or 300 gr A-Frame, your flanged will be as or more effective than any 9.3x62 or 74R and will kill any buffalo that ever walked. Moreover, it will be as accurate and useful on PG as far as you are willing and able to take a shot.

I suspect you have a lot more PG and the occasional buffalo in your future than elephant. For me, it would be no contest - the .375 flanged mag by a wide margin.
 
Last edited:

NJC

AH member
Joined
Sep 8, 2020
Messages
43
Reaction score
69
Media
1
Kevin, sorry to hear that your quest for a new double continues to be a challenge.

I know I have mentioned this to you before but I agree with @Red Leg on this topic. I would buy the double that I would use for the largest amount of hunting possible which is a scoped double in 375. My own meager experience with the flanged indicates that when scoped it will do almost anything that a bolt 375 will do, including longer shots at plains game. The 450-400 is great but not as ideal for the smaller stuff in my opinion.

Plus, the Norma 350’s regulate almost as well as the 300’s in my 375 flanged rifle, and would be my choice if I was forced by circumstances to use the rifle against something larger than a Buffalo.

I will say that all this is predicted on the fact that I live in the US and wanted a gun that I would be able to viably use here for elk, bear and deer during public land hunting. If I lived amongst the bigger stuff as you do I might have made a different decision.

good luck on your quest for an 89, it will be worth it!!!!
 

Newboomer

Gold supporter
AH legend
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
2,073
Reaction score
4,008
Location
Nevada
Media
13
Member of
NRA, SCI, American Legion, Freemasons
Hunted
RSA, Maine, Montana, Colorado, Texas, Alaska, California.
I am not familiar with either the 450-400 or 375 flanged but I like versatility and ammo availability. The one that will cover the most ground sounds like the 375 and a 375 will take anything that walks. Good luck in your quest and may there be no more delays.
 

Fluff

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
10
Reaction score
13
Location
Southwest US
Member of
NRA
Hunted
WY, CO, KS, OK, TX, AR, TN, MS
Kevin,
I am new to AH and have never been to Africa so my opinion doesn’t come from a place of experience with large caliber double rifles and DG. I have shot SS doubles bird hunting my hole life as my father hunted with them exclusively and therefore I did too. I assume you already own a rifle in 375 and have killed a Buffalo and many PG with it. YoWhy not get the
 

Fluff

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
10
Reaction score
13
Location
Southwest US
Member of
NRA
Hunted
WY, CO, KS, OK, TX, AR, TN, MS
Sorry hit send by mistake. Why not get the gun you were dreaming about at the first of your post. If you don’t like it, you could sell to Toby! Haha. BTW I am headed to Namibia in July and look forward to joining the club.
 
D

Deleted member 53080

My opinion and vote (for what it’s worth with no experience) is for the 450-400 as you already have your 375 base covered with your No. 1 I believe? Since you’re local bringing two rifles if you wish wouldn’t be too much of a hassle I should think, and if you’re like me the possibility of simply adding an excellent kudu or whatever to your buffalo hunt if you happen upon one is out of the question financially so the 450-400 shouldn’t be a hindrance (as far as range capability goes) to the overall success of your hunt. But that’s just me
 

WAB

AH legend
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
3,050
Reaction score
6,761
Location
Alabama
Media
94
Hunting reports
Africa
5
USA/Canada
1
Member of
DSC, NRA, SCI
Hunted
Zambia, Botswana, Mozambique, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Scotland, England, Canada, Alaska, Ireland
I'll be the contrarian. Do you want a purely dangerous game rifle to lug around or do you want a general purpose rifle that is a joy to carry as well as shoot? How many elephant do you intend to take? With a 270 or 300 gr A-Frame, your flanged will be as or more effective than any 9.3x62 or 74R and will kill any buffalo that ever walked. Moreover, it will be as accurate and useful on PG as far as you are willing and able to take a shot.

I suspect you have a lot more PG and the occasional buffalo in your future than elephant. For me, it would be no contest - the .375 flanged mag by a wide margin.

+1 on the .375 flanged. It will be much more versatile and a dream to carry in the bush. If you were primarily after elephant you’d likely jump right to a .470.
 

Art Lambart II

AH elite
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
1,615
Location
Kansas City
Media
27
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
NRA Life Member, SCI, QDMA
Hunted
MI, TX, MO, South Africa Limpopo & Northwest Provinces
If you already have a 375 then get the 450/400 if not then buy the 375. I already have a Ruger #1 in 416 Rigby so I don't really need another elephant gun but I don't own a 375 and that leaves a big hole in my African rifle battery. Personally, I would love a VC O/U flanged 375, but I could do a Heym as well.
 

1dirthawker

AH fanatic
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
691
Reaction score
1,308
Media
13
Articles
2
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
should I go for the 375 Flanged Mag in the light frame (3.6kg) or back to the 450/400 in the Africa frame (4.5kg)? Help me guys, after all this I am swimming.

well, since you are asking for opinions, here's one.

first, having read some responses, i think red leg has a viable argument for a 375 flanged (other than acquiring brass) it is completely capable of killing DG.

I have an o/u 450-400. i love the gun (very accurate for a double). i have shot blue wildebeest and moose at 200 yards and beyond (my double is scoped) and the 450-400 is more than capable for such shots. so trajectory concerns are not really worth considering unless you are shooting much further.

there is no question that the 375 is lighter than the 450-400 given the figures you showed, so.... are you going to do more PG hunting or DG hunting with said rifle? both guns shoot to a fairly similar ft/lbs of energy so the 375 should actually recoil more. the question is, do you want more thump from the 400 gr bullet or a flatter shooting rifle (slightly) with a 300 gr bullet?

I guarantee that up to 200 yards (with both scoped) there are not enough differences to matter for trajectory. do you want to carry the extra 2 pounds? do you want more available ammo and brass? the problem with the 375 is... you lose some of that calibers versatility with a double, since it is unlikely that your double will shoot 250 gr and 300 gr bullets to the same point of impact. i used solids, softs and percussion point (north fork softs made for cats or light skinned animals) and all 400 gr. shot to same POI. my rifle regulated to 400 gr bullets at 2100 fps (hornady bullets regulate to the same POI in my gun)

so, all this said, if I was picking one, my contact with DG would have some influence, but, i feel completely confident of my rifle out to 250 yards. my 400 gr bullet is only going about 1650 fps at 200 yards, but, it shot thru a moose and a blue wildebeest at that range!

ultimately it is your decision. a more trim rifle, or a slightly heavier with a touch more punch. either way, you are going to buy a fine rifle. i suggest you get it set up for a 1-6 scope no matter which rifle you buy.

there it is, my 2 cents!
 

CAustin

Bronze supporter
AH ambassador
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
14,494
Reaction score
11,851
Media
258
Hunting reports
Africa
7
Member of
Courtney Hunting Club, NRA Life Member, SCI Kansas City Chapter
Hunted
South Africa, KwaZulu Natal, Kalahari, Northwest, Limpopo, Gauteng, APNR Kruger Area. USA Georgia, South Carolina, Arkansas, New Mexico, North Carolina and Texas
Folks, these have been a frustrating few months, please bear with me relating the experience in build up to asking you for your valuable input to a decision I must make.
So I am in love with the Heym 89B as you probably gathered, functionality, aesthetics, all perfect. So I get in touch with the South African agent in January, yes he happens to have a 450/400 in stock! So I buy my air ticket and get the negative covid test, and if it fits me, it's a deal. Night before and the covid spikes hugely, our chairman (my brother) forbids all travel. So I inform the agent it is all off for now, and within a few days he lets me know the double is sold anyway.
Ok, so now we have a clean slate, and I start doing the usual vascillating, comparing of options and the pendulum swings to the 375 Flanged Magnum in the light framed 89b. It all seems so right, and I can apparently order it now and get down to Pretoria for a fitting later. The order is duly placed - and my bank corrupts my account in some internal changes and I can't access my funds for over three weeks. The day that that is finally resolved, my kids get into a bind buying their new house and the Heym fund has to urgently go to that noble cause. So I have to cancel again. I can only imagine how the Heym agent took this.
Now at last the path seems clear again, but that clean slate raises it's head once more - should I go for the 375 Flanged Mag in the light frame (3.6kg) or back to the 450/400 in the Africa frame (4.5kg)? Help me guys, after all this I am swimming.
Get the 450 400 sir.
 

Ike85123

AH fanatic
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
730
Reaction score
1,400
Location
Arizona, USA
Media
1
Member of
None
I would go with the 450-400, if you need an all around rifle for africa. The 375 fl mag would be great for pg only. I dont believe the 375 fl mag has the energy to be legal on dg some places.
But would be a lighter rifle to carry all day.
 

Tanks

AH elite
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
1,583
Reaction score
2,796
Media
48
My vote is for the bigger caliber, .450/400. The only reason I ordered a Heym 9.3x74R instead of a .450/400 a few months ago was because I already had a .450 NE and a .500 NE and wanted a scoped double for PG and cats.
 

Red Leg

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
6,725
Reaction score
19,737
Location
Texas Hill Country
Media
285
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
2
USA/Canada
5
Mex/S.Amer
1
Europe
3
Member of
SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
Hunted
Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
I would go with the 450-400, if you need an all around rifle for africa. The 375 fl mag would be great for pg only. I dont believe the 375 fl mag has the energy to be legal on dg some places.
But would be a lighter rifle to carry all day.
I believe that is factually wrong. The .375 Flanged magnum will meet any DG requirement of which I am aware. It will certainly deal with any buffalo, lion or leopard that ever roamed the continent. It would not be my first choice for elephant, but I suspect a 300 gr Hydro in the ear will kill any Pachyderm currently in Africa.
 
Last edited:

yhc

AH veteran
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
177
Reaction score
247
Location
Alaska
Media
14
Member of
NRA Life Member
Hunted
USA, Germany, Austria
My vote is for the 450/400.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
37,693
Messages
720,860
Members
67,446
Latest member
RaulCornwa
 

 

 

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

flatwater bill wrote on john stroud's profile.
Leopard Legend....................Hi John.............I see that you have not visited AH in awhile. Hope all is well. I am looking for a hunt in Namibia..............would like to ask a few questions about your hunt.............all the best..............................Bill
Cervus elaphus wrote on Bob Nelson 35Whelen's profile.
Hi Bob, how's things going in Wyong?. Down your way a couple of years back but haven't been in NSW since Ebor for the fishing. just getting over some nasty storms up here in Qld, seeing the sun for the first time in a few days. I'm going to NZ in the spring and hope to clean up a few buns while there and perhaps shake the spiders out of my old .303LE (currently owned by my BIL). Cheers Brian
A couple pictures of the sable i chased for miles in Mozambique, Coutada 9!! We finally caught up to him and I had the trophy of a lifetime. Mokore Safaris, Doug Duckworth PH
sable Coutada 9.JPG
sable 2 - Coutada 9.JPG
Safari Dave wrote on egrmpty507's profile.
Did you purchase your hunt at a US SCI fundraiser?
uplander01 wrote on colorado's profile.
Heard you may have load data for the 500 Jeffery,.....any info would be appreciated. Was thinking 535gr, but already had a response that the 570gr would be a better way to go, not sure why.
 
Top